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One-size-fits-all chargers? What a great idea Of course Apple would hate it

17 points by LinuxBender 5y ago

akmarinov 5y ago
Won’t Android manufacturers hate it more in a couple of years? Apple is known for sticking to one thing for quite a while, where Android manufacturers were free to experiment with all sorts of connectors, like that Samsung microUSB 3 one. This cuts off one line of potentially differentiating your phone in the future for them. Sure, for Apple it’s millions of dollars in MFI money, but it’s not like Android manufacturers won’t see any detriment in time.
- beardyw 5y ago
  Not my experience. As far as I can tell the vast majority of Androids have been plain micro USB because of 2019 EU MoU. I think USB-C was seen as inevitable by most.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  I can't think of any actual experimentation with charging connectors. The microUSB 3 plug is just an extension and normal microUSB charges it fine.
JonathanBeuys 5y ago
I always feel that all these narrow laws are probably less effective than taxing the problem itself. If we want less toxic waste, why not tax the sales of toxic stuff? This way, the manufacturers would not only produce less USB chargers, but a gazillion other things that can be reduced would be reduced as well.
- namdnay 5y ago
  The rule here is also partly to make life nicer for consumers, which can't really be solved by economical twekas like taxation. In the same way, mandating the abolition of roaming fees across the EU was great for everyone, and it's not really something that could have been solved with markets and taxes
  - JonathanBeuys 5y ago
    Great for everyone? I think it is not great for the companies who charged the fees.
    - namdnay 5y ago
      haha indeed, poor them :)
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
Before USB-C Apple had a very good case - every USB connector sucked. With USB-C atleast they've developed a usable connector - its just the cables that are a total mess of unknown power capabilities. With the new MacBooks and some iPads (I've never figured out why) having just USB-C it would make sense to have a common set of cables and chargers even amongst Apple devices - being able to use a single charger and cable to charge both MacBook and iPhone would be very neat.
- namdnay 5y ago
  Yeah it drives me crazy that I can't even plug my new iphone into my new macbook without buying additional cables
  - adav 5y ago
    Look in the box for your new iPhone and you’ll find a USB‑C to lightning cable.
    - namdnay 5y ago
      Ah did they swithc? Mine is from last year and it's still USB-A
simonh 5y ago
Painting Apple as the bad guys on this is laughable. No other manufacturer has shown greater discipline and consistency in the curation of it's device charging and connection standards. This goes back decades. They have been vilified for too aggressively rationalising the connectors they support. Even when it comes to USB-C Apple spearheaded adoption and went all-in on the connector early across it's laptop range.
- namdnay 5y ago
  Apple are definitely the bad guys in this, at least in Europe. They were the only ones who fought against the 2011 request to align charging ports (every single other manufacturer agreed to switch to micro-USB). It's a shame that it took us 10 years to go from "please do it" to "do it", but here we are at last
  - orev 5y ago
    Back the, the options were micro-USB or Lightning, and given those choices Lightning was the far better option.
    - namdnay 5y ago
      But isn’t lightning proprietary? The others wouldn’t have been able to align themselves on it
      - simonh 5y ago
        The others couldn't all standardise of Micro USB anyway. It didn't carry enough power at the time to charge tablets with their bigger batteries and higher wattage power requirements. That's why Samsung used proprietary connectors on their tablets. Apple would have had to retain Lightning for the iPad anyway, forcing Apple owners like myself to have a mix of Lightning and Micro USB for our tablets and phones until Micro USB caught up (and then became incompatible with itself). Wonderful, thanks guys!
  - simonh 5y ago
davismwfl 5y ago
The problem I have with legislating this type of stuff is in 5 years (or whatever period) there will be a successor to USB C but getting legislation updated will be difficult and time consuming. So instead of being innovative and moving forward manufacturers will get caught on a standard for years after everyone knew it was no longer the right one. And yea, USB-C might last longer then 5 years of course, but there are things that just don't belong in legislation. I would have preferred that they made the text something more like manufacturers must all agree on a standard every 3 years or something along those lines, to allow for more rapid updates but still reduce the excess, waste and be more convenient for consumers. Not that this is a great solution either, but it at least seems less restrictive on innovation. To be fair, I haven't read the full text of the rule so maybe there is something to help minimize the delay on innovation, but seeing it came from a government body it doesn't make me optimistic.
- namdnay 5y ago
  So the original rule back in 2011 was for the industry to self-govern itself and align on a common standard (just like the aviation industry will align on how smooth a runway should be or what pressure jet fuel should be injected at). Every manufacturer agreed to align on micro-USB, except for ... Apple. So now unfortunately we have to rely on the nanny state to whip our childish businesses into line. Hopefully after this they can move to a self-governing standard
  - davismwfl 5y ago
    Thank you, I didn't know that, interesting. I still think the better way would've been to force the industry to comply by stating whatever the agreement was any devices not meeting it would be barred from sales in the market. That would put teeth into the industry agreement but still keep technical implementation details out of the legislation. At least with what you are saying I get more why they moved this way, just wish it would've been slightly more logical and not so potentially innovation stifling. Hopefully there is something in the full text about the innovation cycle and future changes, but I doubt it.
TradingPlaces 5y ago
1. USB-C is 7 years old already. 2. Apple will go directly to wireless charging instead. 3. This is so dumb.
taylodl 5y ago
Remember the uproar when Apple switched from the 30 pin connector to the Lightning adaptor? Apple promised they would stick with Lightning for at least 10 years. Next year is the 10th anniversary of that decision. Meanwhile the Lightning adaptor inspired USB-C. Apple has adopted USB-C on their iMac, MacBook and iPad product lines. I expect Apple to adopt USB-C on next year's iPhone as well, since it's the 10th anniversary of adopting Lightning. On the bright side, by "Apple hating it", we're not stuck with the abomination known as micro-USB. We've come to a better place. Who knows? Maybe Apple was right all along.

17 points by LinuxBender 5y ago

Won’t Android manufacturers hate it more in a couple of years? Apple is known for sticking to one thing for quite a while, where Android manufacturers were free to experiment with all sorts of connectors, like that Samsung microUSB 3 one. This cuts off one line of potentially differentiating your phone in the future for them. Sure, for Apple it’s millions of dollars in MFI money, but it’s not like Android manufacturers won’t see any detriment in time.

beardyw 5y ago
Not my experience. As far as I can tell the vast majority of Androids have been plain micro USB because of 2019 EU MoU. I think USB-C was seen as inevitable by most.
Dylan16807 5y ago
I can't think of any actual experimentation with charging connectors. The microUSB 3 plug is just an extension and normal microUSB charges it fine.

JonathanBeuys 5y ago

I always feel that all these narrow laws are probably less effective than taxing the problem itself. If we want less toxic waste, why not tax the sales of toxic stuff? This way, the manufacturers would not only produce less USB chargers, but a gazillion other things that can be reduced would be reduced as well.

namdnay 5y ago
The rule here is also partly to make life nicer for consumers, which can't really be solved by economical twekas like taxation. In the same way, mandating the abolition of roaming fees across the EU was great for everyone, and it's not really something that could have been solved with markets and taxes
- JonathanBeuys 5y ago
  Great for everyone? I think it is not great for the companies who charged the fees.
  - namdnay 5y ago
    haha indeed, poor them :)

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

Before USB-C Apple had a very good case - every USB connector sucked. With USB-C atleast they've developed a usable connector - its just the cables that are a total mess of unknown power capabilities. With the new MacBooks and some iPads (I've never figured out why) having just USB-C it would make sense to have a common set of cables and chargers even amongst Apple devices - being able to use a single charger and cable to charge both MacBook and iPhone would be very neat.

namdnay 5y ago
Yeah it drives me crazy that I can't even plug my new iphone into my new macbook without buying additional cables
- adav 5y ago
  Look in the box for your new iPhone and you’ll find a USB‑C to lightning cable.
  - namdnay 5y ago
    Ah did they swithc? Mine is from last year and it's still USB-A

simonh 5y ago

Painting Apple as the bad guys on this is laughable. No other manufacturer has shown greater discipline and consistency in the curation of it's device charging and connection standards. This goes back decades. They have been vilified for too aggressively rationalising the connectors they support. Even when it comes to USB-C Apple spearheaded adoption and went all-in on the connector early across it's laptop range.

namdnay 5y ago
Apple are definitely the bad guys in this, at least in Europe. They were the only ones who fought against the 2011 request to align charging ports (every single other manufacturer agreed to switch to micro-USB). It's a shame that it took us 10 years to go from "please do it" to "do it", but here we are at last
- orev 5y ago
  Back the, the options were micro-USB or Lightning, and given those choices Lightning was the far better option.
  - namdnay 5y ago
    But isn’t lightning proprietary? The others wouldn’t have been able to align themselves on it
    - simonh 5y ago
      The others couldn't all standardise of Micro USB anyway. It didn't carry enough power at the time to charge tablets with their bigger batteries and higher wattage power requirements. That's why Samsung used proprietary connectors on their tablets. Apple would have had to retain Lightning for the iPad anyway, forcing Apple owners like myself to have a mix of Lightning and Micro USB for our tablets and phones until Micro USB caught up (and then became incompatible with itself). Wonderful, thanks guys!
- simonh 5y ago

davismwfl 5y ago

The problem I have with legislating this type of stuff is in 5 years (or whatever period) there will be a successor to USB C but getting legislation updated will be difficult and time consuming. So instead of being innovative and moving forward manufacturers will get caught on a standard for years after everyone knew it was no longer the right one. And yea, USB-C might last longer then 5 years of course, but there are things that just don't belong in legislation. I would have preferred that they made the text something more like manufacturers must all agree on a standard every 3 years or something along those lines, to allow for more rapid updates but still reduce the excess, waste and be more convenient for consumers. Not that this is a great solution either, but it at least seems less restrictive on innovation. To be fair, I haven't read the full text of the rule so maybe there is something to help minimize the delay on innovation, but seeing it came from a government body it doesn't make me optimistic.

namdnay 5y ago
So the original rule back in 2011 was for the industry to self-govern itself and align on a common standard (just like the aviation industry will align on how smooth a runway should be or what pressure jet fuel should be injected at). Every manufacturer agreed to align on micro-USB, except for ... Apple. So now unfortunately we have to rely on the nanny state to whip our childish businesses into line. Hopefully after this they can move to a self-governing standard
- davismwfl 5y ago
  Thank you, I didn't know that, interesting. I still think the better way would've been to force the industry to comply by stating whatever the agreement was any devices not meeting it would be barred from sales in the market. That would put teeth into the industry agreement but still keep technical implementation details out of the legislation. At least with what you are saying I get more why they moved this way, just wish it would've been slightly more logical and not so potentially innovation stifling. Hopefully there is something in the full text about the innovation cycle and future changes, but I doubt it.

TradingPlaces 5y ago

1. USB-C is 7 years old already. 2. Apple will go directly to wireless charging instead. 3. This is so dumb.

taylodl 5y ago

Remember the uproar when Apple switched from the 30 pin connector to the Lightning adaptor? Apple promised they would stick with Lightning for at least 10 years. Next year is the 10th anniversary of that decision. Meanwhile the Lightning adaptor inspired USB-C. Apple has adopted USB-C on their iMac, MacBook and iPad product lines. I expect Apple to adopt USB-C on next year's iPhone as well, since it's the 10th anniversary of adopting Lightning. On the bright side, by "Apple hating it", we're not stuck with the abomination known as micro-USB. We've come to a better place. Who knows? Maybe Apple was right all along.