4 ms·

> five or ten years thats a pretty wide range. What is the basis for these numbers?

Dylan16807 5y ago
It's a wide range because the exact number doesn't matter. USB-C is replacing ports that existed for 7 and 25 years, depending on which end you look at. It's not going to change again any time soon.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  It’s the sixth iteration of device-side USB connector in around 25 years. What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far?
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Original, mini, micro... micro again if you really want to stretch it, C. How do you get 6? Are you counting type A 3.0 and micro 3.0 as "separate iterations"? A device that was on micro had zero need to swap back to a full-size connector and then back again to micro. > What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far? A big part is that this is also replacing type A plugs. Also it's been continuously upgraded without any changes needed, after being heavily designed around that concept, with us currently 7 years in with no hint of wanting to replace it.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      It was a simplistic method, but I think sufficient: I counted the different device-side cable ends in my box o’ USB cables. Giant B, mini B, micro B, the giant B with the extra dormer on top of it, the micro B with the extra bit next to it, and USB-C. Literally all six of them are within reach from my desk (my monitor takes a dormer version, an external HD housing takes the extra-wide version, Arduino clones take a giant original and mini, and most devices take a micro-B or -C.) > Are you counting type A 3.0 and micro 3.0 as "separate iterations"? I counted only device-side differences (as the point of the EU law is to reduce e-waste by reducing device-side variation). I didn’t make any distinction on variations in the host (A) side of the cable.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > It was a simplistic method, but I think sufficient: I counted the different device-side cable ends in my box o’ USB cables. When you're trying to make a point about how often they change things, it doesn't make sense to list two variants that came out at the same time. Also micro and micro 3.0 came out a year and a half apart, so that's even less reason to count them as different iterations.
        sokoloff 5y ago
        If the teams who created those variations had no valid reason to create them, I agree they should be excluded from the count and treated as errors in technical and/or business judgment. I don’t see evidence to support that conclusion and instead default to thinking they were created for a reason that appeared valid to the smart people working on the problem and approving them in the USB standards process (and the proliferation is obviously contributing to eWaste). Perhaps the USB-C teams finally got a forever connector designed on the N+1th spin, but my experience suggests that while they learned and made it better, we’re nowhere near done evolving in electronics and cable connectivity yet. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        Those variants were valid but there is a limit to how much they should add to the count of iterations. Variants and iterations are not the same, when multiple variants can come out at the same time. Also the 3.0 variants don't matter for charging. USB-C finally manages to have high speed pins and be small at the same time, and they gave it extra expandability too. There's no reason it needs to be updated any time soon. And they already have done some major updates but they've kept the same plug. And that xkcd, eh. USB isn't exactly competing with USB, and I fully expect old versions of B to die out like mini did.
        sokoloff 5y ago
        OK, if the contention/confusion is over a word, please consider my post upthread to indicate that the USB standards body approved 6 prior non-interchangeable variants which contributed to e-waste rather than approving 6 prior iterations which contributed to e-waste. They most certainly do matter for charging when you can't plug the larger plug into the smaller hole on a device.

It's a wide range because the exact number doesn't matter. USB-C is replacing ports that existed for 7 and 25 years, depending on which end you look at. It's not going to change again any time soon.

sokoloff 5y ago
It’s the sixth iteration of device-side USB connector in around 25 years. What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far?
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Original, mini, micro... micro again if you really want to stretch it, C. How do you get 6? Are you counting type A 3.0 and micro 3.0 as "separate iterations"? A device that was on micro had zero need to swap back to a full-size connector and then back again to micro. > What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far? A big part is that this is also replacing type A plugs. Also it's been continuously upgraded without any changes needed, after being heavily designed around that concept, with us currently 7 years in with no hint of wanting to replace it.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    It was a simplistic method, but I think sufficient: I counted the different device-side cable ends in my box o’ USB cables. Giant B, mini B, micro B, the giant B with the extra dormer on top of it, the micro B with the extra bit next to it, and USB-C. Literally all six of them are within reach from my desk (my monitor takes a dormer version, an external HD housing takes the extra-wide version, Arduino clones take a giant original and mini, and most devices take a micro-B or -C.) > Are you counting type A 3.0 and micro 3.0 as "separate iterations"? I counted only device-side differences (as the point of the EU law is to reduce e-waste by reducing device-side variation). I didn’t make any distinction on variations in the host (A) side of the cable.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > It was a simplistic method, but I think sufficient: I counted the different device-side cable ends in my box o’ USB cables. When you're trying to make a point about how often they change things, it doesn't make sense to list two variants that came out at the same time. Also micro and micro 3.0 came out a year and a half apart, so that's even less reason to count them as different iterations.
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        If the teams who created those variations had no valid reason to create them, I agree they should be excluded from the count and treated as errors in technical and/or business judgment. I don’t see evidence to support that conclusion and instead default to thinking they were created for a reason that appeared valid to the smart people working on the problem and approving them in the USB standards process (and the proliferation is obviously contributing to eWaste). Perhaps the USB-C teams finally got a forever connector designed on the N+1th spin, but my experience suggests that while they learned and made it better, we’re nowhere near done evolving in electronics and cable connectivity yet. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        Those variants were valid but there is a limit to how much they should add to the count of iterations. Variants and iterations are not the same, when multiple variants can come out at the same time. Also the 3.0 variants don't matter for charging. USB-C finally manages to have high speed pins and be small at the same time, and they gave it extra expandability too. There's no reason it needs to be updated any time soon. And they already have done some major updates but they've kept the same plug. And that xkcd, eh. USB isn't exactly competing with USB, and I fully expect old versions of B to die out like mini did.
        sokoloff 5y ago
        OK, if the contention/confusion is over a word, please consider my post upthread to indicate that the USB standards body approved 6 prior non-interchangeable variants which contributed to e-waste rather than approving 6 prior iterations which contributed to e-waste. They most certainly do matter for charging when you can't plug the larger plug into the smaller hole on a device.