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Six reasons the EU should force the iPhone to use USB-C

38 points by noptd 5y ago

wallaBBB 5y ago
My current bet is they go portless rather than switching to USB C, and that would be the day I move from iPhone. Hopefully these open (and privacy) oriented android/linux phones get mature in the meantime. Wireless charging is a huge waste of energy and doesn't really go well with the environmental moves Apple has been making (if that was their real motivation). I do understand the convenience of wireless charging in situations like driving, but like 90%+ of charging is at home during the night where there is no excuse for just plugging it in. And I want my damn cable for data transfer (but this is just me).
- wbond 5y ago
  We recently moved to wireless charging to reduce the number of cables that break and have to be replaced. I don’t need the port to be removed, but I doubt I would regularly use USB-C. It is more difficult to plug in than lightning, and will still suffer from the same cable issues.
  - gbba 5y ago
    Wireless charging isn't immune to failures either. A recent example of this is Google's Pixel 4 device, introduced in Oct. 2019. Apparently if the phone chassis expands over time, the rear antennas (including wireless charging and NFC) get disconnected and stop working. People experiencing this issue, including myself, are not able to reliably use wireless charging, and using NFC (e.g. for Google Pay) requires us to put pressure on the rear of the phone. Granted, Apple seems to have much better hardware quality control than most vendors and iPhones might not ever have this issue.
- riffraff 5y ago
  what is that you don't like about portless, that was acceptable with the lightning cable?
  - gambiting 5y ago
    It's slow. Apple especially is far far far behind everyone else when it comes to charging speeds. Tbf Apple wired charging speeds are still very slow compared to competition, but wireless is just abysmal. And then of course a daily occurence - I lie down in bed, about 5% battery left, want to watch some youtube or whatever - now I can just plug in a cable and continue using my phone. With portless, how exactly am I supposed to do that? With the funny magsafe dongle that you need to be super careful not to detach as you hold the phone and which doesn't really stick on unless you use one of the approved cases? No thanks.
  - kalleboo 5y ago
    I develop apps for iOS and Apples wireless debugging tools are extremely unreliable and slow
  - wallaBBB 5y ago
    - Efficiency of wireless charging first of all, and I consider this to be a pretty firm reason against when there is no real benefit from wireless (nightly charging). I do recognize the added benefit from wireless charging in certain not so common situations, but not enough to justify making it the only option. - I have been involved in project that included wireless chargers for phones used by automotive OEMs, and those can be pretty hard to qualify. On one design we had the type and level of radiation that is considered potentially harmful for pacemakers. And having in mind a lot of people would be buying these chargers from unknown and uncertified sources (cheapest one from Wish for e.g.) it makes me dislike them even more. Yes wired dodgy chargers can be bad, but the scope of failures is smaller. - 3rd reason as I noted is a personal one, I just don't trust wireless as I do wires when it comes to data transfer (physical robustness), and I prefer to use the wired way when it's a reasonable option. This is rooted in the ethernet vs WiFi choice. But this is debatable. Also current speed difference in transfer.
  - dnndev 5y ago
    Charging efficiency, speed, and reliability will get better. Wireless debugging will get better and we will forget it was ever buggy. We will have plates attached to a cable we can attach (magnetic) when we need to charge a drained battery and watch tv. These are all solvable issues. Wireless makes the most sense moving forward. That is what the EU should be pushing for. The charging/data cable is a backup and not the primary way to charge
- jayflux 5y ago
  I agree portless move feels inevitable but I think we're quite some way away from that for the reasons you mentioned. There seems to be little benefit in the jump right now; the phones are already waterproof, they already make money from the accessories, they will only anger a lot of people who still use the cable. It feels like right now portless doesn't bring that much positives over the negatives for them. As for USB-C, I found it weird in their presentation how much they talked it up for their iPad mini, but don't want to use it on the iPhone. If EU push them into a corner they may just pay the fines year after year instead of changing, they can afford it.
  - wallaBBB 5y ago
    The only technical reason I can thing off is that the inside space needed for the usb C port is (considerably) bigger and they don't like it. But this is just a guess... I would expect same as you that the move to only wireless would not happen soon, but this regulation could push them to do it a lot sooner. There is a 2yrs transition period mentioned in the regulation IIRC, so that sets the stage for iPhone 15/16 to be wireless, and they just stop selling others in EU.
- jeffrallen 5y ago
  They will do portless just to give a giant middle finger to the EU. Apple's attitude has gotten so bad recently, it's like they are now just choosing whatever is the worst decision in all cases. My next laptop will be from frame.work.
- numpad0 5y ago
  > and that would be the day I move from iPhone. Which is why iPhone S Pro(2024) has a USB-C port. Starting at $2699 for 16GB models.
- pg_1234 5y ago
  The intention is clearly that the consumer be able to charge any phone using a generic usb-c charger. Apple's proprietary wireless charging would fail that criteria. "Going portless" wouldn't save Apple they still have to use a generic technology between the wall socket and the phone. I imagine that if Apple made their technology an industry standard, that a) others could implement, and b) Apple were themselves governed by, then the EU would consider it in addition to usb-c. But really, why bother, it's so inefficient ... and it might get rejected by the regulators on the basis of energy wastage alone ...
clquantxxx 5y ago
Seven reasons: Expose everyone to USB exploits. http://mg.lol/blog/badusb-cables/ http://mg.lol/blog/badusb-cables/
- Tronchenbiais 5y ago
  There is a variant of this attack for Apple Lightning USB cables. It is featured in the article you linked.
  - gflmxn 5y ago
    It is gross negligence to standardize on anything that conflates a data bus with a power socket. A user should have the expectation that charging a device does not compromise the safety.
- wallaBBB 5y ago
  I fail to understand how is this worse than the current situation? These exploits usually target the PC side. If anything this makes it harder to target iPhones, since you have harder time at making sure your malicious cable would be used on an iPhone, while with USB-Lightning you are sure of it. If exploits were universal to all platforms than your remark would make sense.
xupybd 5y ago
Legislation like this might make sense now but in the long run silly laws like this cause more harm than good. Do we really want to lock in the charging form factor for the next who knows how long?
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  It's easy enough to let the law expire in five or ten years.
  - dominotw 5y ago
    > five or ten years thats a pretty wide range. What is the basis for these numbers?
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      It's a wide range because the exact number doesn't matter. USB-C is replacing ports that existed for 7 and 25 years, depending on which end you look at. It's not going to change again any time soon.
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        It’s the sixth iteration of device-side USB connector in around 25 years. What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far?
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        Original, mini, micro... micro again if you really want to stretch it, C. How do you get 6? Are you counting type A 3.0 and micro 3.0 as "separate iterations"? A device that was on micro had zero need to swap back to a full-size connector and then back again to micro. > What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far? A big part is that this is also replacing type A plugs. Also it's been continuously upgraded without any changes needed, after being heavily designed around that concept, with us currently 7 years in with no hint of wanting to replace it.
throw0101a 5y ago
Contra: > This is a profoundly stupid way to approach product design and standardisation. What happens in 5 years when someone wants to use a better connector? What if they’d picked USB 3 five years ago? * https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1441009296540676096 https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1441009296540676096 > But Apple has also argued that if the European Union had imposed a common charger in 2009, it would have restricted innovation that led to USB-C and Lightning connectors. In a statement, Apple said that although it welcomed the European Commission’s commitment to protecting the environment, it favored a solution that left the device side of the charging interface open for innovation. * https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/business/european-union-apple-charging-port.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/business/european-union-a... In 2009 we would have been stuck with micro-USB: > These E.U. meddlers have indeed been clamoring for this legislation since 2009 — Apple didn’t pick that date out of the air. At the time, iPhones used 30-pin iPod USB 1 adapters and most other phones used adapters like Micro-USB and (gag) Mini-USB. You don’t have to be a computer engineer to look back at your lifetime and realize that computer plugs and adapters keep getting smaller and better. Do they really think no one is going to come up with an adapter better than USB-C? Ever? * https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  I was under the impression that the EU did force a change in 2009, and that is part of the reason micro-usb -> usb-A became the defacto standard for Android, and that Apple was forced to ship it's phone chargers with detachable leads for this reason. That's something that Apple users would have benefitted from, when apple changed to their newer proprietary cable, since they'd only need to swap the cable. Plus the general benefit of the market interoperability that provides lots of cheap 3rd party USB chargers for cars and such like. edit: looks like they got a voluntary agreement, not an actual law, and Apple was one of the signatories, and it was in place up until in 2014 in various guises: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
- kalleboo 5y ago
  EU legislators are well-aware that legislating a technical solution is a bad idea, this whole time they tried to get this done through a simple memorandum of understanding where the manufacturers would do it voluntarily and that would let the industry evolve naturally as they pleased, as long as they moved somewhat in lock-step. But Apple refused to adopt what the rest of the industry did and now they're moving to legislate it. Apple brought this upon themselves by being arrogant and selfish.
sgift 5y ago
For anyone saying "we shouldn't force companies on a specific connector": This legislation started over 10 years ago. Back then Apple said "we need a bit of time to figure out a good way forward. Could you please give it?" and then EU said "Yeah, okay. We trust you will use it wisely." 10 years fast forward: Nothing happened. Maybe this is a good lesson for industries to not try to play games with legislators if you cannot live with the consequences.
- e-clinton 5y ago
  Had it been successful 10 years ago, what connector would we have today? Mini USB?
  - drewzero1 5y ago
    Micro USB was pretty well established 10 years ago. USB 3.0 micro B was just out (2010) and probably would have been a strong contender, since the socket could also accept a USB2 micro B plug.
    - drcongo 5y ago
      Yeah, but it was still an absolute bag of crap, utterly horrible to use in every conceivable way.
      - hulitu 5y ago
        To be honest so is USB-C. When the connector is not designed for hundreds of matings it will fail sooner than expected. USB-A connector was designed for 12 matings. For USB-C i could not find anything on DDG.
        drcongo 5y ago
        I agree, I'm not a huge fan of USB-C either. I used to have the butterfly keyboard MBP that everyone rightly hated and the USB-C sockets, within a month, were all loose enough for the cables to just fall out regularly. Never had that problem with Lightning.
Apocryphon 5y ago
Dumb alternative: what if Apple was forced to give out converters and adapters for free?
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  ah yes that would solve the environmental issue
cblconfederate 5y ago
My usb-c charging cable is always occupied. phone/oculus/headphones etc. i expect that public spaces will offer usb-c charging cables so you won't even need to carry a cable.
- jansan 5y ago
  There are shops that have so many USB-C cables that they are even selling them. Maybe you should try to get a second one there.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    that's not what i m saying (i have spares, thank you). What i mean is that usbc ubiquity is a very good and convenient thing
- smeej 5y ago
  Using someone else's charging cable makes me cringe as much as using someone else's toothbrush. Anybody who cares AT ALL about privacy or security is horrified by this idea.
  - slig 5y ago
    I also care about someone else's shitty power brick frying my device.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    thats a legitimate concern, maybe there's a way to verify charging-only ports ? maybe some pins not required for charging can be visibly missing in charge-only cables
jayflux 5y ago
Not against this but worth remembering that South Koreans were stuck with Internet Explorer because of legislation. https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-internet-explorer-2013-11?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-internet-explore...
smeej 5y ago
The market already handles this fine. If the lack of a USB-C charging port bothers you that much, you have thousands of other options or ways around this problem. You don't need government threatening businesses because one company made and stands by a decision you don't like.
- 1over137 5y ago
  Thousands of other options is the problem. It's why people have baskets full of different chargers, creating all the e-waste.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    No, they don't. Because all chargers today are either USB or USB-C, including the ones Apple sells. In the future they will all be USB-C. They will be that, because it is the only thing that can fast charge. Apple use lighting connectors on their phones, but the ones they ship now connects to USB-c. Apple does not change ports easily (on their phones), but when they do it is a huge deal that people remember. Also Apple has been on a modern port since before USB-C existed, which was likely why they created lighting.
dnndev 5y ago
They should drop the cable all together and just do wireless charging? Yes, a lot of wireless plate chargers will need to be put in place but I think it will be a better future rather than cables.
numbsafari 5y ago
The approach taken doesn’t make sense. A more reasonable approach that supports innovation, and helps to reduce e-waste, is a multi-part plan: - Require public disclosure of all technical aspects of physical connectors, whether it is a plug-in port or a magnetic/induction or wireless interface. Require licensing on an FRAND basis, but only for a very limited time period, say 5 years. This gets rid of the lock-in, but helps finance adoption, testing, etc., and also creates public disclosure to support right-to-repair, etc. - Mandate which types of physical connectors must be supported by different device categories for all EU and member state purchasing regimes, which types of connectors will be provided for in public accommodations, etc., and create strict processes for any granted exceptions. This will help subsidize consolidation, penalize the experience of products that choose to not comply, etc., but it still allows for innovation and change without actually specifying product design choices. - Lastly, require companies that sell electronics to pay into an e-waste fund on a per-unit manufactured basis. Charge the companies something that reflects the externalities of their choices and make them accommodate and evaluate cradle-to-grave impact of their innovative designs before they can enter the marketplace. USB-C isn’t the perfect dream world of device interfaces, and Apple’s approach of “no ports” experimentation is neither proven, nor an actual solution to the problems the EU is concerned about.
- xupybd 5y ago
  Exactly this, solve the problem without creating a new one.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    But it means the regulators will have to do their job rather than claim some pyrrhic victory over Apple. It was 9 years ago when Apple switched from the 30 pin connector to the Lightning connector. There was an uproar. I recall Apple promising they would keep Lightning for at least 10 years. Guess what? Next year is the 10 year mark. Meanwhile, what has changed in the market? Lightning inspired USB-C. Apple has adopted USB-C on their MacBook and iPad devices. Guess what next year's iPhone, released on the 10th anniversary of adopting Lightning, is likely to have? A USB-C port. This is really much ado over nothing. The regulators haven't actually done anything but they'll pawn it off that they took the fight to Apple and won. This is what passes for leadership these days.
8fingerlouie 5y ago
Now if only USB connectors were actually as durable as the lightning plug. MicroUSB was/is a disaster with regards to durability, and USB C has so far not done much to convince me. My 10 year old lightning cable next to my bed still charges my phone every night. it has seen 3000+ plug in/out cycles, and still works as well as when it was new. Any phone i've had plugged in has never had any issues with loose connectors. My work HP laptop on the other hand has a USB C plug for charging/display/etc, and despite being less than a year old, it already has the dreaded "wobble" in the USB C connector.
- 20after4 5y ago
  This exactly. The lightning port is superior. I was sad to see the old magsafe connector go away when they adopted USB C on laptops and I'll be really sad to lose the lightning connector. The USB C connector is a marginal improvement over micro-usb but that's about all.
- xattt 5y ago
  You mention a 10 year old (!) Lightning connector. How is the charring/arcing on the contact pads?
  - 8fingerlouie 5y ago
    It had some charring on the 3rd pin a few years ago, but since all the connectors are actually visible, I simply cleaned it with a rough piece of cloth, and it’s back to normal. All USB plugs have their connectors on the inside, making it impossible to clean them.
noptd 5y ago
https://archive.is/T0BUs https://archive.is/T0BUs

38 points by noptd 5y ago

My current bet is they go portless rather than switching to USB C, and that would be the day I move from iPhone. Hopefully these open (and privacy) oriented android/linux phones get mature in the meantime. Wireless charging is a huge waste of energy and doesn't really go well with the environmental moves Apple has been making (if that was their real motivation). I do understand the convenience of wireless charging in situations like driving, but like 90%+ of charging is at home during the night where there is no excuse for just plugging it in. And I want my damn cable for data transfer (but this is just me).

wbond 5y ago
We recently moved to wireless charging to reduce the number of cables that break and have to be replaced. I don’t need the port to be removed, but I doubt I would regularly use USB-C. It is more difficult to plug in than lightning, and will still suffer from the same cable issues.
- gbba 5y ago
  Wireless charging isn't immune to failures either. A recent example of this is Google's Pixel 4 device, introduced in Oct. 2019. Apparently if the phone chassis expands over time, the rear antennas (including wireless charging and NFC) get disconnected and stop working. People experiencing this issue, including myself, are not able to reliably use wireless charging, and using NFC (e.g. for Google Pay) requires us to put pressure on the rear of the phone. Granted, Apple seems to have much better hardware quality control than most vendors and iPhones might not ever have this issue.
riffraff 5y ago
what is that you don't like about portless, that was acceptable with the lightning cable?
- gambiting 5y ago
  It's slow. Apple especially is far far far behind everyone else when it comes to charging speeds. Tbf Apple wired charging speeds are still very slow compared to competition, but wireless is just abysmal. And then of course a daily occurence - I lie down in bed, about 5% battery left, want to watch some youtube or whatever - now I can just plug in a cable and continue using my phone. With portless, how exactly am I supposed to do that? With the funny magsafe dongle that you need to be super careful not to detach as you hold the phone and which doesn't really stick on unless you use one of the approved cases? No thanks.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  I develop apps for iOS and Apples wireless debugging tools are extremely unreliable and slow
- wallaBBB 5y ago
  - Efficiency of wireless charging first of all, and I consider this to be a pretty firm reason against when there is no real benefit from wireless (nightly charging). I do recognize the added benefit from wireless charging in certain not so common situations, but not enough to justify making it the only option. - I have been involved in project that included wireless chargers for phones used by automotive OEMs, and those can be pretty hard to qualify. On one design we had the type and level of radiation that is considered potentially harmful for pacemakers. And having in mind a lot of people would be buying these chargers from unknown and uncertified sources (cheapest one from Wish for e.g.) it makes me dislike them even more. Yes wired dodgy chargers can be bad, but the scope of failures is smaller. - 3rd reason as I noted is a personal one, I just don't trust wireless as I do wires when it comes to data transfer (physical robustness), and I prefer to use the wired way when it's a reasonable option. This is rooted in the ethernet vs WiFi choice. But this is debatable. Also current speed difference in transfer.
- dnndev 5y ago
  Charging efficiency, speed, and reliability will get better. Wireless debugging will get better and we will forget it was ever buggy. We will have plates attached to a cable we can attach (magnetic) when we need to charge a drained battery and watch tv. These are all solvable issues. Wireless makes the most sense moving forward. That is what the EU should be pushing for. The charging/data cable is a backup and not the primary way to charge
jayflux 5y ago
I agree portless move feels inevitable but I think we're quite some way away from that for the reasons you mentioned. There seems to be little benefit in the jump right now; the phones are already waterproof, they already make money from the accessories, they will only anger a lot of people who still use the cable. It feels like right now portless doesn't bring that much positives over the negatives for them. As for USB-C, I found it weird in their presentation how much they talked it up for their iPad mini, but don't want to use it on the iPhone. If EU push them into a corner they may just pay the fines year after year instead of changing, they can afford it.
- wallaBBB 5y ago
  The only technical reason I can thing off is that the inside space needed for the usb C port is (considerably) bigger and they don't like it. But this is just a guess... I would expect same as you that the move to only wireless would not happen soon, but this regulation could push them to do it a lot sooner. There is a 2yrs transition period mentioned in the regulation IIRC, so that sets the stage for iPhone 15/16 to be wireless, and they just stop selling others in EU.
jeffrallen 5y ago
They will do portless just to give a giant middle finger to the EU. Apple's attitude has gotten so bad recently, it's like they are now just choosing whatever is the worst decision in all cases. My next laptop will be from frame.work.
numpad0 5y ago
> and that would be the day I move from iPhone. Which is why iPhone S Pro(2024) has a USB-C port. Starting at $2699 for 16GB models.
pg_1234 5y ago
The intention is clearly that the consumer be able to charge any phone using a generic usb-c charger. Apple's proprietary wireless charging would fail that criteria. "Going portless" wouldn't save Apple they still have to use a generic technology between the wall socket and the phone. I imagine that if Apple made their technology an industry standard, that a) others could implement, and b) Apple were themselves governed by, then the EU would consider it in addition to usb-c. But really, why bother, it's so inefficient ... and it might get rejected by the regulators on the basis of energy wastage alone ...

clquantxxx 5y ago

Seven reasons: Expose everyone to USB exploits. http://mg.lol/blog/badusb-cables/ http://mg.lol/blog/badusb-cables/

Tronchenbiais 5y ago
There is a variant of this attack for Apple Lightning USB cables. It is featured in the article you linked.
- gflmxn 5y ago
  It is gross negligence to standardize on anything that conflates a data bus with a power socket. A user should have the expectation that charging a device does not compromise the safety.
wallaBBB 5y ago
I fail to understand how is this worse than the current situation? These exploits usually target the PC side. If anything this makes it harder to target iPhones, since you have harder time at making sure your malicious cable would be used on an iPhone, while with USB-Lightning you are sure of it. If exploits were universal to all platforms than your remark would make sense.

xupybd 5y ago

Legislation like this might make sense now but in the long run silly laws like this cause more harm than good. Do we really want to lock in the charging form factor for the next who knows how long?

Dylan16807 5y ago
It's easy enough to let the law expire in five or ten years.
- dominotw 5y ago
  > five or ten years thats a pretty wide range. What is the basis for these numbers?
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    It's a wide range because the exact number doesn't matter. USB-C is replacing ports that existed for 7 and 25 years, depending on which end you look at. It's not going to change again any time soon.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      It’s the sixth iteration of device-side USB connector in around 25 years. What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far?
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Original, mini, micro... micro again if you really want to stretch it, C. How do you get 6? Are you counting type A 3.0 and micro 3.0 as "separate iterations"? A device that was on micro had zero need to swap back to a full-size connector and then back again to micro. > What’s the basis to think this is the last one for a long time when we’ve seen new ones introduced about every five years so far? A big part is that this is also replacing type A plugs. Also it's been continuously upgraded without any changes needed, after being heavily designed around that concept, with us currently 7 years in with no hint of wanting to replace it.

throw0101a 5y ago

Contra: > This is a profoundly stupid way to approach product design and standardisation. What happens in 5 years when someone wants to use a better connector? What if they’d picked USB 3 five years ago? * https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1441009296540676096 https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1441009296540676096 > But Apple has also argued that if the European Union had imposed a common charger in 2009, it would have restricted innovation that led to USB-C and Lightning connectors. In a statement, Apple said that although it welcomed the European Commission’s commitment to protecting the environment, it favored a solution that left the device side of the charging interface open for innovation. * https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/business/european-union-apple-charging-port.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/business/european-union-a... In 2009 we would have been stuck with micro-USB: > These E.U. meddlers have indeed been clamoring for this legislation since 2009 — Apple didn’t pick that date out of the air. At the time, iPhones used 30-pin iPod USB 1 adapters and most other phones used adapters like Micro-USB and (gag) Mini-USB. You don’t have to be a computer engineer to look back at your lifetime and realize that computer plugs and adapters keep getting smaller and better. Do they really think no one is going to come up with an adapter better than USB-C? Ever? * https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
I was under the impression that the EU did force a change in 2009, and that is part of the reason micro-usb -> usb-A became the defacto standard for Android, and that Apple was forced to ship it's phone chargers with detachable leads for this reason. That's something that Apple users would have benefitted from, when apple changed to their newer proprietary cable, since they'd only need to swap the cable. Plus the general benefit of the market interoperability that provides lots of cheap 3rd party USB chargers for cars and such like. edit: looks like they got a voluntary agreement, not an actual law, and Apple was one of the signatories, and it was in place up until in 2014 in various guises: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
kalleboo 5y ago
EU legislators are well-aware that legislating a technical solution is a bad idea, this whole time they tried to get this done through a simple memorandum of understanding where the manufacturers would do it voluntarily and that would let the industry evolve naturally as they pleased, as long as they moved somewhat in lock-step. But Apple refused to adopt what the rest of the industry did and now they're moving to legislate it. Apple brought this upon themselves by being arrogant and selfish.

sgift 5y ago

For anyone saying "we shouldn't force companies on a specific connector": This legislation started over 10 years ago. Back then Apple said "we need a bit of time to figure out a good way forward. Could you please give it?" and then EU said "Yeah, okay. We trust you will use it wisely." 10 years fast forward: Nothing happened. Maybe this is a good lesson for industries to not try to play games with legislators if you cannot live with the consequences.

e-clinton 5y ago
Had it been successful 10 years ago, what connector would we have today? Mini USB?
- drewzero1 5y ago
  Micro USB was pretty well established 10 years ago. USB 3.0 micro B was just out (2010) and probably would have been a strong contender, since the socket could also accept a USB2 micro B plug.
  - drcongo 5y ago
    Yeah, but it was still an absolute bag of crap, utterly horrible to use in every conceivable way.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      To be honest so is USB-C. When the connector is not designed for hundreds of matings it will fail sooner than expected. USB-A connector was designed for 12 matings. For USB-C i could not find anything on DDG.
      - drcongo 5y ago
        I agree, I'm not a huge fan of USB-C either. I used to have the butterfly keyboard MBP that everyone rightly hated and the USB-C sockets, within a month, were all loose enough for the cables to just fall out regularly. Never had that problem with Lightning.

Apocryphon 5y ago

Dumb alternative: what if Apple was forced to give out converters and adapters for free?

cblconfederate 5y ago
ah yes that would solve the environmental issue

cblconfederate 5y ago

My usb-c charging cable is always occupied. phone/oculus/headphones etc. i expect that public spaces will offer usb-c charging cables so you won't even need to carry a cable.

jansan 5y ago
There are shops that have so many USB-C cables that they are even selling them. Maybe you should try to get a second one there.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  that's not what i m saying (i have spares, thank you). What i mean is that usbc ubiquity is a very good and convenient thing
smeej 5y ago
Using someone else's charging cable makes me cringe as much as using someone else's toothbrush. Anybody who cares AT ALL about privacy or security is horrified by this idea.
- slig 5y ago
  I also care about someone else's shitty power brick frying my device.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  thats a legitimate concern, maybe there's a way to verify charging-only ports ? maybe some pins not required for charging can be visibly missing in charge-only cables

jayflux 5y ago

Not against this but worth remembering that South Koreans were stuck with Internet Explorer because of legislation. https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-internet-explorer-2013-11?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-internet-explore...

smeej 5y ago

The market already handles this fine. If the lack of a USB-C charging port bothers you that much, you have thousands of other options or ways around this problem. You don't need government threatening businesses because one company made and stands by a decision you don't like.

1over137 5y ago
Thousands of other options is the problem. It's why people have baskets full of different chargers, creating all the e-waste.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  No, they don't. Because all chargers today are either USB or USB-C, including the ones Apple sells. In the future they will all be USB-C. They will be that, because it is the only thing that can fast charge. Apple use lighting connectors on their phones, but the ones they ship now connects to USB-c. Apple does not change ports easily (on their phones), but when they do it is a huge deal that people remember. Also Apple has been on a modern port since before USB-C existed, which was likely why they created lighting.

dnndev 5y ago

They should drop the cable all together and just do wireless charging? Yes, a lot of wireless plate chargers will need to be put in place but I think it will be a better future rather than cables.

numbsafari 5y ago

The approach taken doesn’t make sense. A more reasonable approach that supports innovation, and helps to reduce e-waste, is a multi-part plan: - Require public disclosure of all technical aspects of physical connectors, whether it is a plug-in port or a magnetic/induction or wireless interface. Require licensing on an FRAND basis, but only for a very limited time period, say 5 years. This gets rid of the lock-in, but helps finance adoption, testing, etc., and also creates public disclosure to support right-to-repair, etc. - Mandate which types of physical connectors must be supported by different device categories for all EU and member state purchasing regimes, which types of connectors will be provided for in public accommodations, etc., and create strict processes for any granted exceptions. This will help subsidize consolidation, penalize the experience of products that choose to not comply, etc., but it still allows for innovation and change without actually specifying product design choices. - Lastly, require companies that sell electronics to pay into an e-waste fund on a per-unit manufactured basis. Charge the companies something that reflects the externalities of their choices and make them accommodate and evaluate cradle-to-grave impact of their innovative designs before they can enter the marketplace. USB-C isn’t the perfect dream world of device interfaces, and Apple’s approach of “no ports” experimentation is neither proven, nor an actual solution to the problems the EU is concerned about.

xupybd 5y ago
Exactly this, solve the problem without creating a new one.
- taylodl 5y ago
  But it means the regulators will have to do their job rather than claim some pyrrhic victory over Apple. It was 9 years ago when Apple switched from the 30 pin connector to the Lightning connector. There was an uproar. I recall Apple promising they would keep Lightning for at least 10 years. Guess what? Next year is the 10 year mark. Meanwhile, what has changed in the market? Lightning inspired USB-C. Apple has adopted USB-C on their MacBook and iPad devices. Guess what next year's iPhone, released on the 10th anniversary of adopting Lightning, is likely to have? A USB-C port. This is really much ado over nothing. The regulators haven't actually done anything but they'll pawn it off that they took the fight to Apple and won. This is what passes for leadership these days.

8fingerlouie 5y ago

Now if only USB connectors were actually as durable as the lightning plug. MicroUSB was/is a disaster with regards to durability, and USB C has so far not done much to convince me. My 10 year old lightning cable next to my bed still charges my phone every night. it has seen 3000+ plug in/out cycles, and still works as well as when it was new. Any phone i've had plugged in has never had any issues with loose connectors. My work HP laptop on the other hand has a USB C plug for charging/display/etc, and despite being less than a year old, it already has the dreaded "wobble" in the USB C connector.

20after4 5y ago
This exactly. The lightning port is superior. I was sad to see the old magsafe connector go away when they adopted USB C on laptops and I'll be really sad to lose the lightning connector. The USB C connector is a marginal improvement over micro-usb but that's about all.
xattt 5y ago
You mention a 10 year old (!) Lightning connector. How is the charring/arcing on the contact pads?
- 8fingerlouie 5y ago
  It had some charring on the 3rd pin a few years ago, but since all the connectors are actually visible, I simply cleaned it with a rough piece of cloth, and it’s back to normal. All USB plugs have their connectors on the inside, making it impossible to clean them.

noptd 5y ago

https://archive.is/T0BUs https://archive.is/T0BUs