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> Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like t

> Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like the Ergodox EZ/Moonlander Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards, and split segments was the mainstream. > Most of these kinds of keyboards also support whatever key switches you prefer, and there are plenty of options that are sufficiently quiet for zoom (pretty much anything linear should do the trick) But even the most silent switch can't compete with the absorption of a normal rubberdome. Stiff matter hitting stiff matter always produces some noise, and most people don't know how to use mechanical keyboards correctly to reduce this.

enchiridion 5y ago
Is just having a softer touch the answer?
- dotancohen 5y ago
  That is half the answer. When I let people try my mechanical keyboards, especially the Cherries, I emphasize that the goal isn't to mash the key until it no longer goes down. Rather, the goal is to stop mashing somewhere between the actuation point (usually ~2mm) and the end of key travel (usually ~4mm). This corresponds to 45-60 grams of force depending on switch type, and staying in this range makes for a relatively quiet experience on quiet switches. But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home.
  - beepbooptheory 5y ago
    This is incidentally also great advice for gaining dynamic range on a piano
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    > But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home. Do people really get that upset about a keyboard that clicks a bit? Back when I was in open offices the annoyances were people yelling to each other with me in between, people singing, private phone calls etc. A click wouldn't even have registered.
    - cesarb 5y ago
      > > [...] I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home. > Do people really get that upset about a keyboard that clicks a bit? [...] A click wouldn't even have registered. Am I the only one who still remembers when typing, even in offices or at home, meant sharp hitting noises with a DING at the end of each line?
      - Moru 5y ago
        Nope, we are many that lived with that :-) There is a difference between someone pressing a button now and then, and a person that actually writes 8-10 cps. You don't give them an audio feedback keyboard or you will go deaf.
jagger27 5y ago
This is why the new hot thing in mechanical keyboards is gasket mounting and PCB relief cuts. There is some progress happening here. A good desk mat helps too.
- trashcat 5y ago
  I'm glad that this is the way customs are headed. I love my Think6.5 V2. Gasket mounting has been game changing for me.
  - and0 5y ago
    After Googling for an embarassingly long time I think I'm figuring out what gasket mounting is.. how does that meaningfully changed how the keyboard feels? Just makes the whole typing surface a little flexible / bouncy?
    - hadlock 5y ago
      I had to google this as well. It looks like the idea is to move the surface that the key switches attach to, to a sub-assembly, which can then be mounted in a variety of slightly-more-flexible sub-assembly. This is the kind of minutae I would have loved to get into when I was younger. The closest analogy I can think of is a solid body (standard) electric guitar, vs. a semi-hollowbody electric guitar, although the mechanics are very different, ultimately you're attempting to modify the percussive effect by modifying the frame. https://keyboard.university/200-courses/keyboard-mounting-styles-4lpp7 https://keyboard.university/200-courses/keyboard-mounting-st... https://www.sweetwater.com/c592--Semi_hollowbody_Guitars https://www.sweetwater.com/c592--Semi_hollowbody_Guitars
    - jagger27 5y ago
      There are a couple different techniques, but it really all boils down to dampening/softening the bottom out with rubber or silicone somewhere in the case sandwich. It gives it some “give” beyond the travel of the switch. A thick desk mat does this a bit too.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
JeremyNT 5y ago
> Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards, and split segments was the mainstream. Indeed, I saw the title of this post and I wondered if the poster was looking for a setup similar to the Freestyle... and it turns out they were! I made the switch a couple of years ago from a standard layout mechanical to the "Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB" (nominally a gaming keyboard, but I don't use the gaming features) and would not go back. This device can't achieve quite as much separation as the "dual keyboard" approach in this blog entry, but it's not too far off. As for the switches, in addition to the mechanical version with its various switch options, they also make a rubber dome variant of this keyboard, which happens to be cheaper.
- ramses0 5y ago
  Such an awesome keyboard!!
- OJFord 5y ago
  Just to be clear on the distinction, are we terming 'split segment' the keyboards in two halves that have (roughly) half the usual keys on each device, and saying purist's 'split keyboard' is.. two 'normal' keyboards? Nothing is 'split' in the latter though? I've never thought 'split keyboard' a misnomer in referring to two pieces that look like a keyboard sawn (often carefully around staggered keycaps) in half, i.e. split?
  - palunon 5y ago
    No. It's hard to explain, but split segment looks like this: https://imgur.com/a/kjWmciy https://imgur.com/a/kjWmciy (so, one physical keyboard, just with a very different layout) Split keyboards are usually 2 separate keyboards with half the key each.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Oh I see, thanks. I have seen those, just didn't think of it - they seem strictly worse than two separate halves to me, the main thing that appeals to me (I don't have one) is positioning either have however, at whatever angle, and differently to the other, to suit me and how I happen to be sitting at the time. Split segment seems to make a big assumption about what people find uncomfortable (narrow/er than shoulders) and offer a different fixed solution.
bsg75 5y ago
I happen to be shopping Kinesis Freestyle keyboards today. A common complaint is the ABS keycaps combined with something in the case design echoes the switch noise, even with Silent Reds. Lower quality keycaps at the Kinesis price range being be main gripe on the Freestyle Pro.
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  I opened up my Kenesis Advantage and put in a piece of mass loaded vinyl I had from a different project. I absorbed all the twangy echo.
- zacharycohn 5y ago
  I used a Freestyle for a while. Great keyboard, terrible keycaps. Would recommend replacing them ASAP.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
> But even the most silent switch can't compete with the absorption of a normal rubberdome. Stiff matter hitting stiff matter always produces some noise, and most people don't know how to use mechanical keyboards correctly to reduce this. I mostly agree. That said, my Keychron K1 (red switches, v3 so this may be out of date) is not noticeably louder to my very noise sensitive ears than a similar Apple low profile keyboard. It’s the first mechanical keyboard I’ve owned that hasn’t drawn laughs or ire in remote meetings. I suspect the quietness is because the low profile keys bottom out inside the case rather than keycaps hitting the casing. There’s still the sound of the switch, but even if I were a better typist with more sensitive reflexes I’d hear that. I’ve tried a lot of other “quiet” mechanical keyboards. The Matias one was softer at the expense of having a more rubber dome feel while typing (and like every Matias I’ve owned the switches went glitchy and eventually failed). The other “for the office” (brand I can’t recall) red switch keyboard I had… well, I think it was as annoying to me as everyone else. And, not trying to shill the product (and again I have no idea if v4 has regressed), but I also have a very noise sensitive puppy who hops up and gets distracty if I so much as bump anything on my desk. She’s just as calm with the K1 as my MBP’s built in keyboard. The switches might not be to everyone’s liking. But there’s definitely room for mechanical keyboards to be less loud than they are even used less effectively than intended (i.e. me).
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  I have the Keychron K1 (also red switches) and an Apple keyboard in front of me right now. The K1 is significantly louder at normal typing forces. ~60dB vs ~45dB using a sound meter app.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Fair enough. My measurements were obviously more subjective :)
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
I have accessibility needs so I use soft keyboard and a trackpad. I keep the keyboard at an angle on the closed laptop but the trackpad was on a flat surface which caused some wrist fatigue. I join the keyboard and the trackpad together with a double sided tape[1] with a metal scale to the bottom for added rigidity and now I can use both of them at a preferred angle. I no longer have wrist fatigue as I can rest them on a flat surface while both typing and tracking. [1] https://abishekmuthian.com/accessibility-hack-for-keyboard-and-trackpad/ https://abishekmuthian.com/accessibility-hack-for-keyboard-a...

enchiridion 5y ago

Is just having a softer touch the answer?

dotancohen 5y ago
That is half the answer. When I let people try my mechanical keyboards, especially the Cherries, I emphasize that the goal isn't to mash the key until it no longer goes down. Rather, the goal is to stop mashing somewhere between the actuation point (usually ~2mm) and the end of key travel (usually ~4mm). This corresponds to 45-60 grams of force depending on switch type, and staying in this range makes for a relatively quiet experience on quiet switches. But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home.
- beepbooptheory 5y ago
  This is incidentally also great advice for gaining dynamic range on a piano
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  > But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home. Do people really get that upset about a keyboard that clicks a bit? Back when I was in open offices the annoyances were people yelling to each other with me in between, people singing, private phone calls etc. A click wouldn't even have registered.
  - cesarb 5y ago
    > > [...] I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home. > Do people really get that upset about a keyboard that clicks a bit? [...] A click wouldn't even have registered. Am I the only one who still remembers when typing, even in offices or at home, meant sharp hitting noises with a DING at the end of each line?
    - Moru 5y ago
      Nope, we are many that lived with that :-) There is a difference between someone pressing a button now and then, and a person that actually writes 8-10 cps. You don't give them an audio feedback keyboard or you will go deaf.

jagger27 5y ago

This is why the new hot thing in mechanical keyboards is gasket mounting and PCB relief cuts. There is some progress happening here. A good desk mat helps too.

trashcat 5y ago
I'm glad that this is the way customs are headed. I love my Think6.5 V2. Gasket mounting has been game changing for me.
- and0 5y ago
  After Googling for an embarassingly long time I think I'm figuring out what gasket mounting is.. how does that meaningfully changed how the keyboard feels? Just makes the whole typing surface a little flexible / bouncy?
  - hadlock 5y ago
    I had to google this as well. It looks like the idea is to move the surface that the key switches attach to, to a sub-assembly, which can then be mounted in a variety of slightly-more-flexible sub-assembly. This is the kind of minutae I would have loved to get into when I was younger. The closest analogy I can think of is a solid body (standard) electric guitar, vs. a semi-hollowbody electric guitar, although the mechanics are very different, ultimately you're attempting to modify the percussive effect by modifying the frame. https://keyboard.university/200-courses/keyboard-mounting-styles-4lpp7 https://keyboard.university/200-courses/keyboard-mounting-st... https://www.sweetwater.com/c592--Semi_hollowbody_Guitars https://www.sweetwater.com/c592--Semi_hollowbody_Guitars
  - jagger27 5y ago
    There are a couple different techniques, but it really all boils down to dampening/softening the bottom out with rubber or silicone somewhere in the case sandwich. It gives it some “give” beyond the travel of the switch. A thick desk mat does this a bit too.
kitsunesoba 5y ago

JeremyNT 5y ago

> Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards, and split segments was the mainstream. Indeed, I saw the title of this post and I wondered if the poster was looking for a setup similar to the Freestyle... and it turns out they were! I made the switch a couple of years ago from a standard layout mechanical to the "Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB" (nominally a gaming keyboard, but I don't use the gaming features) and would not go back. This device can't achieve quite as much separation as the "dual keyboard" approach in this blog entry, but it's not too far off. As for the switches, in addition to the mechanical version with its various switch options, they also make a rubber dome variant of this keyboard, which happens to be cheaper.

ramses0 5y ago
Such an awesome keyboard!!
OJFord 5y ago
Just to be clear on the distinction, are we terming 'split segment' the keyboards in two halves that have (roughly) half the usual keys on each device, and saying purist's 'split keyboard' is.. two 'normal' keyboards? Nothing is 'split' in the latter though? I've never thought 'split keyboard' a misnomer in referring to two pieces that look like a keyboard sawn (often carefully around staggered keycaps) in half, i.e. split?
- palunon 5y ago
  No. It's hard to explain, but split segment looks like this: https://imgur.com/a/kjWmciy https://imgur.com/a/kjWmciy (so, one physical keyboard, just with a very different layout) Split keyboards are usually 2 separate keyboards with half the key each.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Oh I see, thanks. I have seen those, just didn't think of it - they seem strictly worse than two separate halves to me, the main thing that appeals to me (I don't have one) is positioning either have however, at whatever angle, and differently to the other, to suit me and how I happen to be sitting at the time. Split segment seems to make a big assumption about what people find uncomfortable (narrow/er than shoulders) and offer a different fixed solution.

bsg75 5y ago

I happen to be shopping Kinesis Freestyle keyboards today. A common complaint is the ABS keycaps combined with something in the case design echoes the switch noise, even with Silent Reds. Lower quality keycaps at the Kinesis price range being be main gripe on the Freestyle Pro.

Hnrobert42 5y ago
I opened up my Kenesis Advantage and put in a piece of mass loaded vinyl I had from a different project. I absorbed all the twangy echo.
zacharycohn 5y ago
I used a Freestyle for a while. Great keyboard, terrible keycaps. Would recommend replacing them ASAP.

eyelidlessness 5y ago

> But even the most silent switch can't compete with the absorption of a normal rubberdome. Stiff matter hitting stiff matter always produces some noise, and most people don't know how to use mechanical keyboards correctly to reduce this. I mostly agree. That said, my Keychron K1 (red switches, v3 so this may be out of date) is not noticeably louder to my very noise sensitive ears than a similar Apple low profile keyboard. It’s the first mechanical keyboard I’ve owned that hasn’t drawn laughs or ire in remote meetings. I suspect the quietness is because the low profile keys bottom out inside the case rather than keycaps hitting the casing. There’s still the sound of the switch, but even if I were a better typist with more sensitive reflexes I’d hear that. I’ve tried a lot of other “quiet” mechanical keyboards. The Matias one was softer at the expense of having a more rubber dome feel while typing (and like every Matias I’ve owned the switches went glitchy and eventually failed). The other “for the office” (brand I can’t recall) red switch keyboard I had… well, I think it was as annoying to me as everyone else. And, not trying to shill the product (and again I have no idea if v4 has regressed), but I also have a very noise sensitive puppy who hops up and gets distracty if I so much as bump anything on my desk. She’s just as calm with the K1 as my MBP’s built in keyboard. The switches might not be to everyone’s liking. But there’s definitely room for mechanical keyboards to be less loud than they are even used less effectively than intended (i.e. me).

ricardobeat 5y ago
I have the Keychron K1 (also red switches) and an Apple keyboard in front of me right now. The K1 is significantly louder at normal typing forces. ~60dB vs ~45dB using a sound meter app.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  Fair enough. My measurements were obviously more subjective :)

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

I have accessibility needs so I use soft keyboard and a trackpad. I keep the keyboard at an angle on the closed laptop but the trackpad was on a flat surface which caused some wrist fatigue. I join the keyboard and the trackpad together with a double sided tape[1] with a metal scale to the bottom for added rigidity and now I can use both of them at a preferred angle. I no longer have wrist fatigue as I can rest them on a flat surface while both typing and tracking. [1] https://abishekmuthian.com/accessibility-hack-for-keyboard-and-trackpad/ https://abishekmuthian.com/accessibility-hack-for-keyboard-a...