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> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like the Ergodox EZ/Moonlander which have two physically separate bodies, one for each hand. There are many different models of these with various shapes and sizes, and you can separate them as much as you like. The normal advice is to set them up around shoulder width apart so you aren’t rounding your back to bring your arms together. Most of these kinds of keyboards also support whatever key switches you prefer, and there are plenty of options that are sufficiently quiet for zoom (pretty much anything linear should do the trick) I have been using a Moonlander for a couple of years now, and an EZ before that. They are expensive at around $400 but I don’t think I can ever go back. Most of these split keyboards also run QMK so you can setup binds, layers, and generally configure them however you like.

EForEndeavour 5y ago
You must be thinking of the Kinesis Advantage. Kinesis has also made split keyboards for a while: https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards
lolc 5y ago
I found R-Go Tools Split to be a nice and light keyboard for my mobile rig. The only annoyance was the throbbing light in the corner. But a patch of tape fixed that. The stock cable wouldn't allow placing the parts as far apart as in the article though. https://www.r-go-tools.com/products/ergonomic-keyboards/r-go-split/ https://www.r-go-tools.com/products/ergonomic-keyboards/r-go...
- appleiigs 5y ago
  Thanks, looks interesting. FYI: the FAQ says this about the light: Yes, this is possible. You can do so by pressing the key combination "Fn"+"A".
  - lolc 5y ago
    Thanks, that works. But it's not permanent. My tape is :-)
- burlesona 5y ago
  That looks promising, but I heard that model doesn’t work on Macs. Do you know if that’s correct?
  - lolc 5y ago
    I don't see why it wouldn't. It's a USB keyboard. But I use it on Linux, not Darwin.
mikepavone 5y ago
The Kinesis Advantage line is as you describe, but there is also the Freestyle line which are actually split
slightwinder 5y ago
> Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like the Ergodox EZ/Moonlander Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards, and split segments was the mainstream. > Most of these kinds of keyboards also support whatever key switches you prefer, and there are plenty of options that are sufficiently quiet for zoom (pretty much anything linear should do the trick) But even the most silent switch can't compete with the absorption of a normal rubberdome. Stiff matter hitting stiff matter always produces some noise, and most people don't know how to use mechanical keyboards correctly to reduce this.
- enchiridion 5y ago
  Is just having a softer touch the answer?
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    That is half the answer. When I let people try my mechanical keyboards, especially the Cherries, I emphasize that the goal isn't to mash the key until it no longer goes down. Rather, the goal is to stop mashing somewhere between the actuation point (usually ~2mm) and the end of key travel (usually ~4mm). This corresponds to 45-60 grams of force depending on switch type, and staying in this range makes for a relatively quiet experience on quiet switches. But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home.
    - beepbooptheory 5y ago
      This is incidentally also great advice for gaining dynamic range on a piano
    - LAC-Tech 5y ago
      > But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home. Do people really get that upset about a keyboard that clicks a bit? Back when I was in open offices the annoyances were people yelling to each other with me in between, people singing, private phone calls etc. A click wouldn't even have registered.
secabeen 5y ago
It took me years to find a split, ergo-style keyboard with mechanical keys, but I finally did. The freestyles have them, but I don't like the super flat layout. https://c9ergo.com/ https://c9ergo.com/ I am loving the split, angled setup with my preferred Cherry MX Blues.
- westurner 5y ago
  The MS Natural split keyboards are easy to find but aren't satisfyingly clicky mechanical keys just like olden times. How long do these last? Edit: "Ergonomic keyboard" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergonomic_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergonomic_keyboard > #Split_keyboard: > Split keyboards group keys into two or more sections. Ergonomic split keyboards can be fixed, where you cannot change the positions of the sections, or adjustable. Split keyboards typically change the angle of each section, and the distance between them. On an adjustable split keyboard, this can be tailored exactly to the user. People with a broad chest will benefit from an adjustable split keyboard's ability to customize the distance between the two halves of the board. This ensures the elbows are not too close together when typing. [2]
sbahr001 5y ago
I had the kinesis advantage 3 for a little over a week. I have to say by far the most comfortable keyboard I have every used. I returned it because I didn't have the spare time to "adjust" to the layout. Its funny its been months and I still miss the feeling lol.
- Matumio 5y ago
  A week? Well, how much time do you expect to spend typing over the next 10 years...? It took about a month or two to adapt IIRC. I would suggest to remap and reconfigure some keys/layout after observing your actual usage. Also change a few uncomfortable application key combos and relearn, especially if you're not using a US layout. Reprogramming (swapping) keys is easy, but I admit it was a big hassle to also keep a custom layout synced/working between Windows and Linux over the years. But it's great once it's done. By now I'm owning three kinesis advantage, one at the office, one at home, and one to make sure I never have to type on a flat keyboard ever again if anything breaks. I get RSI just from looking at those. I also tried a fully split (freestyle2) keyboard, but it didn't work for me. I think it was the lack of the bowl shape.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Kenisis is in the process of launching a refreshed, split version of the Advantage. They have some teaser images on their Twitter. But they also have more conventional split keyboards (though you can also buy a 90 degree tenting kit to make them weirder again)
softwarebeware 5y ago
My Kinesis Freestyle 2 has a "pivot" hinge that is removable. Once it is removed it allows the two halves to be entirely separate and up to 8" apart. I took the hinge out years ago.
michaelbuckbee 5y ago
Note, the Kinesis Advantage is the one with "cups" that have keys in them in single keyboard. The Kinesis Freestyle is split into two halves and unlike the Ergodex or similar it's just a standard keyboard layout which makes jumping back and forth between other computers less of a hassle.
- jamie_ca 5y ago
  I picked up a Kinesis Freestyle 2 last year, with the longer (20" I think) cable, and it's been wonderful. Standard QWERTY, and the cable is long enough that I'm in a comfortable typing position leaning fully back into my chair with my arms sitting on the armrests. Only complaint is that the macro buttons off to the side just emit standard key presses (eg Cut sends Control+x), which I guess means I should look into the Freestyle Pro which _is_ programmable :)
  - cliff_badger 5y ago
    take a look at this: https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/ https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/ I think it is a better choice than the pro, as it costs the same once you purchase the wrist rests (which the pro comes with). You can re-macro every key on the board, and the macro stays with the board if you move it to a new computer.
    - toyg 5y ago
      As a buyer of both the original Freestyle Pro and the Edge (first edition, pre-rgb), I endorse this message. Either keyboard will likely take your pain away, but the Edge is the better option. The Edge has everything that was missing from the Pro. It truly is the perfect keyboard, in my opinion: split, backlit, mech switches, fully (and easily) programmable, multiple layouts, internal memory, extra macro keys. What more could one ask from a keyboard...? The only shortcoming is that the keycap profile is custom, so it's hard to pimp if you are into color schemes, but that's it. I don't understand why they chose to market it to gamers, when it's the perfect hacker's tool, but I guess them kids are more willing to splash the cash these days.
salamandersauce 5y ago
Kinesis also makes split keyboards. Since they are talking about mushy keys they are clearly talking about the Kinesis Freestyle with membrane keys.
- tetha 5y ago
  There is a new kinesis freestyle gaming, with LEDs (meh), but also mechanical switches (cherry). I'm very happy with mine.
flamwenco 5y ago
Having recently gotten back into mechanical keyboards, partially for ergonomic reasons, I can say the Moonlander so far is the single board I regret purchasing. Almost $400 for a board that is so poorly designed you have to choose between a usable thumb cluster position or a comfortable tenting angle, because the thumb cluster is used as one of the tenting legs. So unless you have giant hands, it's just a very poor experience compared to some other boards I've tried. For far, far less. And to fix this, instead of revising the Moonlander, ZSA is happy to sell you an $80 tripod kit, tripods not included. You can get the benefits of a split board for a _fraction_ of the price by getting something like a Lily58 or a Corne, which have far saner thumb cluster designs, and have plenty of solutions for tenting. And if you're like the author of the linked article who can't handle high travel keys, both of those boards are available with low profile mechanical Choc switches.
- Cu3PO42 5y ago
  Not to discredit your experience, but as another data point: I love my Moonlander. I love it so much, I have two, actually. Personally, I find the thumb clusters most comfortable in a position that also gives a good tenting angle, but I think criticizing coupling the two is fair. That said, I'm not sure how the tripod kit would help you solve that one way or the other. I thought it was designed to go on the outside, not where the thumb clusters are.
- 3np 5y ago
  I have a Lily58 that I’m still getting used to, got any tenting tips? So far I’ve only been putting a towel under the far end to angle it a bit, which is far from ideal.
  - flamwenco 5y ago
    I have seen people using various different size rubber feet on the bottom to tent their lily, I believe they used a mixture of large rubber bumpers intended for roombas, and the normal small bumpons. There should also be a variety of 3d printed solutions too, I've seen tenting feet you can screw on to the bottom and cases that let you use large screws on the outside to create tenting legs
jon-wood 5y ago
I'm curious, is the Moonlander enough of an upgrade over the EZ to be worth dropping that sort of money on a second keyboard? What are the big differences you've actually noticed having made the jump?
- warp 5y ago
  I don't have any experience with the Ergodox, and I loved the Moonlander when I first got it. But having used it for about 8 months now I really don't like how they've implemented the tenting -- the thumb cluster ends up too far away, making the inner most thumb keys on both sides unreachable (for me). I'm likely going to replace it with something with better designed thumb clusters when I can (probably a Kyria or maybe a Corne variant).
  - josephferano 5y ago
    My Kyria hopefully arrives tomorrow.
- kortex 5y ago
  I have both. I agree with the gripes about the thumb cluster acting as a pivot, it's not an optimal design but it's plenty comfortable for me. The big reason I wanted to try it is the thumb layout is more ergonomic and conducive to chording. On the right thumb cluster I map the four keys to 15 bit encoded layer. I don't _use_ all that space, but I have over a thousand keypoints at my disposal. But I do use the bottom 3 (plus base) quite heavily. It's more ergonomic to move frequent keys to near home rows in a higher space.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
This guy seems to have given up too soon. There are also normal spilt keyboards like the UHK. And even cheaper Chinese options like the Mistel Barocco. These Chinese keyboards are what most people should get if they need a split keyboard. Normal keyboard layout, just split. Connected by a coiled USBC to USBC cable that you could replace with a longer cable. I use the Mistel which fine for me. The layout never bothered me, just the distance between the halves and the lack of tenting. They are also programmable which is useful when you can’t use software to remap your keys.
- InvertedRhodium 5y ago
  I ordered my UHKv2 in January and ended up buying a Dygma Raise in the meantime while I wait. I'm sure the UHK will be a lovely keyboard, when it finally ships.
- airstrike 5y ago
  I'd love recommendations on a split keyboard with low profile keys. The "normal" angle on keyboards kills my wrists...
- unemphysbro 5y ago
  Love the mistel. I've been using it for 4 years and it's great!
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  Well I for one will say I did a lot of research on split boards about a year ago and never came across Mistel. It even has my preferred tenkeyless arrow placement!
  - 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
    Yeah, it’s hard to get information about them and they have the weird names. I only know about them because certain suppliers around here stock them and a friend had some other mechanical keyboard from them.
- johncalvinyoung 5y ago
awinter-py 5y ago
I have the kinesis with 20" cable. wish it were slightly longer for cases like 'one side on the couch arm', but it's a million times better than angling my hand around a laptop touchpad layout slightly awkward. escape key is off in the wilderness, keep hitting F1 by accident. Wouldn't mind Y and B keys duplicated so I can hit them with either hand.

EForEndeavour 5y ago

You must be thinking of the Kinesis Advantage. Kinesis has also made split keyboards for a while: https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards

lolc 5y ago

I found R-Go Tools Split to be a nice and light keyboard for my mobile rig. The only annoyance was the throbbing light in the corner. But a patch of tape fixed that. The stock cable wouldn't allow placing the parts as far apart as in the article though. https://www.r-go-tools.com/products/ergonomic-keyboards/r-go-split/ https://www.r-go-tools.com/products/ergonomic-keyboards/r-go...

appleiigs 5y ago
Thanks, looks interesting. FYI: the FAQ says this about the light: Yes, this is possible. You can do so by pressing the key combination "Fn"+"A".
- lolc 5y ago
  Thanks, that works. But it's not permanent. My tape is :-)
burlesona 5y ago
That looks promising, but I heard that model doesn’t work on Macs. Do you know if that’s correct?
- lolc 5y ago
  I don't see why it wouldn't. It's a USB keyboard. But I use it on Linux, not Darwin.

mikepavone 5y ago

The Kinesis Advantage line is as you describe, but there is also the Freestyle line which are actually split

slightwinder 5y ago

> Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like the Ergodox EZ/Moonlander Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards, and split segments was the mainstream. > Most of these kinds of keyboards also support whatever key switches you prefer, and there are plenty of options that are sufficiently quiet for zoom (pretty much anything linear should do the trick) But even the most silent switch can't compete with the absorption of a normal rubberdome. Stiff matter hitting stiff matter always produces some noise, and most people don't know how to use mechanical keyboards correctly to reduce this.

enchiridion 5y ago
Is just having a softer touch the answer?
- dotancohen 5y ago
  That is half the answer. When I let people try my mechanical keyboards, especially the Cherries, I emphasize that the goal isn't to mash the key until it no longer goes down. Rather, the goal is to stop mashing somewhere between the actuation point (usually ~2mm) and the end of key travel (usually ~4mm). This corresponds to 45-60 grams of force depending on switch type, and staying in this range makes for a relatively quiet experience on quiet switches. But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home.
  - beepbooptheory 5y ago
    This is incidentally also great advice for gaining dynamic range on a piano
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    > But nothing is going to quiet the sound of switches designed to give audio feedback, such as the Cherry Blues. I do not recommend those for use in an office or even at home with other people at home. Do people really get that upset about a keyboard that clicks a bit? Back when I was in open offices the annoyances were people yelling to each other with me in between, people singing, private phone calls etc. A click wouldn't even have registered.

secabeen 5y ago

It took me years to find a split, ergo-style keyboard with mechanical keys, but I finally did. The freestyles have them, but I don't like the super flat layout. https://c9ergo.com/ https://c9ergo.com/ I am loving the split, angled setup with my preferred Cherry MX Blues.

westurner 5y ago
The MS Natural split keyboards are easy to find but aren't satisfyingly clicky mechanical keys just like olden times. How long do these last? Edit: "Ergonomic keyboard" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergonomic_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergonomic_keyboard > #Split_keyboard: > Split keyboards group keys into two or more sections. Ergonomic split keyboards can be fixed, where you cannot change the positions of the sections, or adjustable. Split keyboards typically change the angle of each section, and the distance between them. On an adjustable split keyboard, this can be tailored exactly to the user. People with a broad chest will benefit from an adjustable split keyboard's ability to customize the distance between the two halves of the board. This ensures the elbows are not too close together when typing. [2]

sbahr001 5y ago

I had the kinesis advantage 3 for a little over a week. I have to say by far the most comfortable keyboard I have every used. I returned it because I didn't have the spare time to "adjust" to the layout. Its funny its been months and I still miss the feeling lol.

Matumio 5y ago
A week? Well, how much time do you expect to spend typing over the next 10 years...? It took about a month or two to adapt IIRC. I would suggest to remap and reconfigure some keys/layout after observing your actual usage. Also change a few uncomfortable application key combos and relearn, especially if you're not using a US layout. Reprogramming (swapping) keys is easy, but I admit it was a big hassle to also keep a custom layout synced/working between Windows and Linux over the years. But it's great once it's done. By now I'm owning three kinesis advantage, one at the office, one at home, and one to make sure I never have to type on a flat keyboard ever again if anything breaks. I get RSI just from looking at those. I also tried a fully split (freestyle2) keyboard, but it didn't work for me. I think it was the lack of the bowl shape.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Kenisis is in the process of launching a refreshed, split version of the Advantage. They have some teaser images on their Twitter. But they also have more conventional split keyboards (though you can also buy a 90 degree tenting kit to make them weirder again)

softwarebeware 5y ago

My Kinesis Freestyle 2 has a "pivot" hinge that is removable. Once it is removed it allows the two halves to be entirely separate and up to 8" apart. I took the hinge out years ago.

michaelbuckbee 5y ago

Note, the Kinesis Advantage is the one with "cups" that have keys in them in single keyboard. The Kinesis Freestyle is split into two halves and unlike the Ergodex or similar it's just a standard keyboard layout which makes jumping back and forth between other computers less of a hassle.

jamie_ca 5y ago
I picked up a Kinesis Freestyle 2 last year, with the longer (20" I think) cable, and it's been wonderful. Standard QWERTY, and the cable is long enough that I'm in a comfortable typing position leaning fully back into my chair with my arms sitting on the armrests. Only complaint is that the macro buttons off to the side just emit standard key presses (eg Cut sends Control+x), which I guess means I should look into the Freestyle Pro which _is_ programmable :)
- cliff_badger 5y ago
  take a look at this: https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/ https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/ I think it is a better choice than the pro, as it costs the same once you purchase the wrist rests (which the pro comes with). You can re-macro every key on the board, and the macro stays with the board if you move it to a new computer.
  - toyg 5y ago
    As a buyer of both the original Freestyle Pro and the Edge (first edition, pre-rgb), I endorse this message. Either keyboard will likely take your pain away, but the Edge is the better option. The Edge has everything that was missing from the Pro. It truly is the perfect keyboard, in my opinion: split, backlit, mech switches, fully (and easily) programmable, multiple layouts, internal memory, extra macro keys. What more could one ask from a keyboard...? The only shortcoming is that the keycap profile is custom, so it's hard to pimp if you are into color schemes, but that's it. I don't understand why they chose to market it to gamers, when it's the perfect hacker's tool, but I guess them kids are more willing to splash the cash these days.

salamandersauce 5y ago

Kinesis also makes split keyboards. Since they are talking about mushy keys they are clearly talking about the Kinesis Freestyle with membrane keys.

tetha 5y ago
There is a new kinesis freestyle gaming, with LEDs (meh), but also mechanical switches (cherry). I'm very happy with mine.

flamwenco 5y ago

Having recently gotten back into mechanical keyboards, partially for ergonomic reasons, I can say the Moonlander so far is the single board I regret purchasing. Almost $400 for a board that is so poorly designed you have to choose between a usable thumb cluster position or a comfortable tenting angle, because the thumb cluster is used as one of the tenting legs. So unless you have giant hands, it's just a very poor experience compared to some other boards I've tried. For far, far less. And to fix this, instead of revising the Moonlander, ZSA is happy to sell you an $80 tripod kit, tripods not included. You can get the benefits of a split board for a _fraction_ of the price by getting something like a Lily58 or a Corne, which have far saner thumb cluster designs, and have plenty of solutions for tenting. And if you're like the author of the linked article who can't handle high travel keys, both of those boards are available with low profile mechanical Choc switches.

Cu3PO42 5y ago
Not to discredit your experience, but as another data point: I love my Moonlander. I love it so much, I have two, actually. Personally, I find the thumb clusters most comfortable in a position that also gives a good tenting angle, but I think criticizing coupling the two is fair. That said, I'm not sure how the tripod kit would help you solve that one way or the other. I thought it was designed to go on the outside, not where the thumb clusters are.
3np 5y ago
I have a Lily58 that I’m still getting used to, got any tenting tips? So far I’ve only been putting a towel under the far end to angle it a bit, which is far from ideal.
- flamwenco 5y ago
  I have seen people using various different size rubber feet on the bottom to tent their lily, I believe they used a mixture of large rubber bumpers intended for roombas, and the normal small bumpons. There should also be a variety of 3d printed solutions too, I've seen tenting feet you can screw on to the bottom and cases that let you use large screws on the outside to create tenting legs

jon-wood 5y ago

I'm curious, is the Moonlander enough of an upgrade over the EZ to be worth dropping that sort of money on a second keyboard? What are the big differences you've actually noticed having made the jump?

warp 5y ago
I don't have any experience with the Ergodox, and I loved the Moonlander when I first got it. But having used it for about 8 months now I really don't like how they've implemented the tenting -- the thumb cluster ends up too far away, making the inner most thumb keys on both sides unreachable (for me). I'm likely going to replace it with something with better designed thumb clusters when I can (probably a Kyria or maybe a Corne variant).
- josephferano 5y ago
  My Kyria hopefully arrives tomorrow.
kortex 5y ago
I have both. I agree with the gripes about the thumb cluster acting as a pivot, it's not an optimal design but it's plenty comfortable for me. The big reason I wanted to try it is the thumb layout is more ergonomic and conducive to chording. On the right thumb cluster I map the four keys to 15 bit encoded layer. I don't _use_ all that space, but I have over a thousand keypoints at my disposal. But I do use the bottom 3 (plus base) quite heavily. It's more ergonomic to move frequent keys to near home rows in a higher space.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

This guy seems to have given up too soon. There are also normal spilt keyboards like the UHK. And even cheaper Chinese options like the Mistel Barocco. These Chinese keyboards are what most people should get if they need a split keyboard. Normal keyboard layout, just split. Connected by a coiled USBC to USBC cable that you could replace with a longer cable. I use the Mistel which fine for me. The layout never bothered me, just the distance between the halves and the lack of tenting. They are also programmable which is useful when you can’t use software to remap your keys.

InvertedRhodium 5y ago
I ordered my UHKv2 in January and ended up buying a Dygma Raise in the meantime while I wait. I'm sure the UHK will be a lovely keyboard, when it finally ships.
airstrike 5y ago
I'd love recommendations on a split keyboard with low profile keys. The "normal" angle on keyboards kills my wrists...
unemphysbro 5y ago
Love the mistel. I've been using it for 4 years and it's great!
ghostly_s 5y ago
Well I for one will say I did a lot of research on split boards about a year ago and never came across Mistel. It even has my preferred tenkeyless arrow placement!
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  Yeah, it’s hard to get information about them and they have the weird names. I only know about them because certain suppliers around here stock them and a friend had some other mechanical keyboard from them.
johncalvinyoung 5y ago

awinter-py 5y ago

I have the kinesis with 20" cable. wish it were slightly longer for cases like 'one side on the couch arm', but it's a million times better than angling my hand around a laptop touchpad layout slightly awkward. escape key is off in the wilderness, keep hitting F1 by accident. Wouldn't mind Y and B keys duplicated so I can hit them with either hand.