5 ms·

I think it was a system design issue because of lack of proper cooling from the integrator (Apple). Maybe someone can look it up, I'm going off of memory here..

kllrnohj 5y ago
Yeah, inadequate cooling caused the BGA to pop free, with the recall "fix" being to just add some rubber to smash it down. iirc Apple tried to blame Nvidia for it and Nvidia didn't take it, blaming instead Apple's design. Since then Apple has repeatedly had inadequate cooling and power delivery issues, just typically resulting in throttling instead of recalls. Sooo Nvidia was probably accurate and it was Apple's fault. But regardless of whose fault it was, the end result is consumers were stuck with some truly second-tier GPUs for many years
- stephenr 5y ago
  ... what are you talking about? The fix was to replace the mainboard. I know this, because I had it done several times.
- tdeck 5y ago
  Apple has a long history of inadequate cooling, ostensibly because Steve Jobs hated fans. The apple II overheated, the apple III famously overheated (causing the motherboard to warp and chips to pop out), the original macintosh had no fan either. For decades there was a suite of aftermarket fans for Apple computers, although that's less practical with a laptop.
  - takeda 5y ago
    > apple III famously overheated it was so reliable it failed 100% times :)
busterarm 5y ago
Apple's slavish obsession with passive cooling, indeed. It doesn't matter how many times it has been proven to be a bad idea, they're still going to use it.
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  I'm not sure it's such a bad idea. You can take it too far of course. I for one love passive cooling. I select my (no Apple hardware in my house) hardware for silent operation where possible. Started with selecting the right fans and sound proofing my desktop PCs back when and now I'm only buying laptops that do well with the cooling noise. Meaning, if all I do is browsing HN, you better not turn on any fans on me. And when a fan is turned on, it has to be silent and have the right "sound profile". There's just some noise that's very very irritating and the decibels are just one aspect of it. So if someone does everything they can to do without active cooling, I support that. Now if they can't, put the right kind of fan in there, sure. E.g. on a GPU I'm fine with some cooling noise, but it better only happen when I'm likely not to notice because I'm loudly slaying aliens or something like that.
- stephenr 5y ago
  What are you talking about passive cooling? The machines in question were noisy as fuck when they got hot, due to fan noise.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  The M1 Air seems to be a well liked machine.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    It's taken them 20 years since the G4 Cube and several other no-fan, overheat-plagued models to figure it out. Sad for all the customers along the way that suffered through all the failed attempts.
  - biaachmonkie 5y ago
    Well liked yes, but it throttles due to overheating, though it will only typically be noticeable on long running tasks. Adding a simple thermal pad so it makes contact with bottom case cover makes a big improvement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EY7KW-PVy8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EY7KW-PVy8 This is also the case with the M1 iMac, the lower model only has a single fan and throttles on long running tasks as well. Apple is constantly having bad designs and failing to take care of customers until they are forced to via lawsuits.
JiNCMG 5y ago
No multiple laptop manufacturers had this same issue. Toshiba and Sony were two of them. Heat was the cause but it was operating within the specs of the GPU manuafacturer. The issue that soured NVidia with these manufacturer was when it came to fixing the issues they told them to go suck it. Example when Seagate had an entire batch of 2.5 drives dying within a year of manufacturing, they worked with Apple and HP to get them replaced and the cost was shared by both. Also NVidia has issues with their driver development and refuse to let Apple have a say in it.
- passivate 5y ago
  >The issue that soured NVidia with these manufacturer was when it came to fixing the issues they told them to go suck it. Hmm, I don't think this is accurate. As per their filing with the SEC, NVIDIA pledged $150 million to cover damages. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1045810/000119312508145974/d8k.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1045810/000119312508...
rasz 5y ago
No, this was 100% Nvidia material engineering fail and affected whole industry. Dell, HP, all heavyweights had huge costly recalls. Apple cooling strategy of having internals as close to 100C "to keep the fan noise down" might of contributed to earlier failures, but pretty much _every single_ Nvidia G84/G86 series GPU died in same way. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settles-faulty-processor-suit-dell-hp-compaq-mac.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settle...
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  Apple had more failures than just that series, such as the GT 650M's in the 2012 models: https://www.anandtech.com/show/8994/apple-initiates-video-repair-program-for-20112013-macbook-pros https://www.anandtech.com/show/8994/apple-initiates-video-re...

kllrnohj 5y ago

Yeah, inadequate cooling caused the BGA to pop free, with the recall "fix" being to just add some rubber to smash it down. iirc Apple tried to blame Nvidia for it and Nvidia didn't take it, blaming instead Apple's design. Since then Apple has repeatedly had inadequate cooling and power delivery issues, just typically resulting in throttling instead of recalls. Sooo Nvidia was probably accurate and it was Apple's fault. But regardless of whose fault it was, the end result is consumers were stuck with some truly second-tier GPUs for many years

stephenr 5y ago
... what are you talking about? The fix was to replace the mainboard. I know this, because I had it done several times.
tdeck 5y ago
Apple has a long history of inadequate cooling, ostensibly because Steve Jobs hated fans. The apple II overheated, the apple III famously overheated (causing the motherboard to warp and chips to pop out), the original macintosh had no fan either. For decades there was a suite of aftermarket fans for Apple computers, although that's less practical with a laptop.
- takeda 5y ago
  > apple III famously overheated it was so reliable it failed 100% times :)

busterarm 5y ago

Apple's slavish obsession with passive cooling, indeed. It doesn't matter how many times it has been proven to be a bad idea, they're still going to use it.

tharkun__ 5y ago
I'm not sure it's such a bad idea. You can take it too far of course. I for one love passive cooling. I select my (no Apple hardware in my house) hardware for silent operation where possible. Started with selecting the right fans and sound proofing my desktop PCs back when and now I'm only buying laptops that do well with the cooling noise. Meaning, if all I do is browsing HN, you better not turn on any fans on me. And when a fan is turned on, it has to be silent and have the right "sound profile". There's just some noise that's very very irritating and the decibels are just one aspect of it. So if someone does everything they can to do without active cooling, I support that. Now if they can't, put the right kind of fan in there, sure. E.g. on a GPU I'm fine with some cooling noise, but it better only happen when I'm likely not to notice because I'm loudly slaying aliens or something like that.
stephenr 5y ago
What are you talking about passive cooling? The machines in question were noisy as fuck when they got hot, due to fan noise.
lostlogin 5y ago
The M1 Air seems to be a well liked machine.
- busterarm 5y ago
  It's taken them 20 years since the G4 Cube and several other no-fan, overheat-plagued models to figure it out. Sad for all the customers along the way that suffered through all the failed attempts.
- biaachmonkie 5y ago
  Well liked yes, but it throttles due to overheating, though it will only typically be noticeable on long running tasks. Adding a simple thermal pad so it makes contact with bottom case cover makes a big improvement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EY7KW-PVy8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EY7KW-PVy8 This is also the case with the M1 iMac, the lower model only has a single fan and throttles on long running tasks as well. Apple is constantly having bad designs and failing to take care of customers until they are forced to via lawsuits.

JiNCMG 5y ago

No multiple laptop manufacturers had this same issue. Toshiba and Sony were two of them. Heat was the cause but it was operating within the specs of the GPU manuafacturer. The issue that soured NVidia with these manufacturer was when it came to fixing the issues they told them to go suck it. Example when Seagate had an entire batch of 2.5 drives dying within a year of manufacturing, they worked with Apple and HP to get them replaced and the cost was shared by both. Also NVidia has issues with their driver development and refuse to let Apple have a say in it.

passivate 5y ago
>The issue that soured NVidia with these manufacturer was when it came to fixing the issues they told them to go suck it. Hmm, I don't think this is accurate. As per their filing with the SEC, NVIDIA pledged $150 million to cover damages. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1045810/000119312508145974/d8k.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1045810/000119312508...

rasz 5y ago

No, this was 100% Nvidia material engineering fail and affected whole industry. Dell, HP, all heavyweights had huge costly recalls. Apple cooling strategy of having internals as close to 100C "to keep the fan noise down" might of contributed to earlier failures, but pretty much _every single_ Nvidia G84/G86 series GPU died in same way. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settles-faulty-processor-suit-dell-hp-compaq-mac.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settle...

kllrnohj 5y ago
Apple had more failures than just that series, such as the GT 650M's in the 2012 models: https://www.anandtech.com/show/8994/apple-initiates-video-repair-program-for-20112013-macbook-pros https://www.anandtech.com/show/8994/apple-initiates-video-re...