4 ms·

That's all well and good and noble. But I don't feel controlled by Apple. I have Macs, iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple TV. The whole kit. I am "invested". That sa

That's all well and good and noble. But I don't feel controlled by Apple. I have Macs, iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple TV. The whole kit. I am "invested". That said, I've never turned iCloud on, all my photos are on my phone or my computer, all my iTunes music is downloaded to my machine, free to take with me. (I also still buy physical CDs.) I don't sync anything. The only place this isn't true is the Apple TV videos I've bought. Don't know where they are, but I don't really care to be honest. If Apple didn't know about my rental habits, Blockbuster would. What difference does it make. I have enough dusty DVDs in my drawer that I don't think I'd miss if they suddenly vanished, I'm not that tied to the content I've purchased on Apple either. I know what I'm getting in to when I do it, and it's OK with me. The other aspect would be the apps I've got from the App Store. If I were move off of iOS those wouldn't be coming with me anyway, so...no drama there. And why do I not use iCloud? Not because of any big brother eyeball on me. I don't use it the same reason I don't use a Smart TV, or a "smart home", or anything else. It's just one more thing designed to make my life easier that simply won't. As soon as it messes up (and it WILL mess up, catastrophically, and at the worst time. Everyone has stories), whatever value its added will be washed away. As I like to say, I love programming, but I hate computers. I hate messing with them, configuring them, tweaking them, googling for arcane stuff. I never want to hear the word "driver" ever again if I can avoid it. My Macs and Apple stuff, that I use, pretty much "just works". I keep my profile as thin and light as possible. The printer works, on all my machines and devices! Hallelujah! Air Drop works! I can serve videos from my Mac to the my Apple TV. +1! So, whatever control Apple has over me, I think the boot on my neck might instead just be a flip flop, and I can get up whenever I want.

mark_l_watson 5y ago
I don't disagree with you, I use Apple gear (plus one nice Chromebook and 2 Linux laptops) but I use iCloud, Google Drive, and Microsoft OneDrive. For sensitive backups, I ZIP + password protect my financial records, consulting client work materials when they ask me to keep copies for future support, etc. I love messing around with my Linux laptops (and Chromebook with Linux container support), but for my main digital life, the integrations of Apple Watch + iPhone + iPad + MacBook Pro are the best option for me. I would like to see a wider ecosystem and I keep hoping that Microsoft keeps improving the Windows experience and Linux distress keep improving. EDIT: I am also a fan of Google, with some restrictions: I turn off all data collection settings except for music and YouTube for 30 days, and GCP for forever. PRIVACY IS POWER: you put yourself in a better position vs. corporations (and governments) if you take sensible privacy precautions.
advael 5y ago
Again, use whatever you like most, but you're mistaking a lack of conflict with Apple for a lack of control. You like the way Apple's products work for you. Great. You can own media you've produced, and don't particularly care about the distribution model of media you consume. Awesome. These are all great reasons for you to want to use Apple's stuff Personally, I like to save media I consume, and increasingly this is contrary to the business models of media companies. It's good that Apple lets you take your photos elsewhere, but I don't want them to have access to what's on my device, and the reality of Apple's ecosystem is that they have root on and internet-connected access to your devices, at least the smartphones. Personally, I like using tools that I can rely on staying the same. If software I use to make things I want to make changes, I can go back and get a previous version. I can go fork it and change it if I desire. With proprietary tools, you take the risk that a change will be made and you won't like it. You take the risk that they'll decide to move to a subscription model and deny you use of a tool you've already bought unless you start paying the company on a schedule, as Adobe users have experienced recently. If these possibilities have never affected you and don't bother you, by all means, use the tools and services you like
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Good points. Personally I'm looking into moving to Linux for most of my personal and work computing for these reasons: - Scanning each binary on macOS just makes working on the terminal -- and just being a dev in general! -- have much more friction that it needs to. I don't care if it's about my security. While my iMac Pro is "sleeping" the logs show it's actually waking up each 2 to 5 minutes; surely they can passively scan some binaries then and leave me alone after that! The whole process just becomes sluggish. I've lately worked on a Linux laptop with a Ryzen 5500U CPU which is nowhere near the power of my iMac Pro's CPU and it was still times faster for most of my development workflow. (Obviously you can't magically make Rust compilation faster on a mobile CPU but literally everything else was faster.) - Control over photos and music. Yeah, Apple got a bit too creepy for me there. I have a ton of photos, memes, erotic photography, nature walpapers etc. and the Photos app can be much better. But alas, it isn't. At one point I'll just install PhotoSync and start backing up all my iCloud photos to my NAS. And then install a better gallery on my phone and laptop and just be done with it. Same for music. The whole thing is just tailored towards the copyright industry. One day I'll not be able to play whatever music I actually pay sub for and that's when I'll leave, in the meantime I am backing up any and all photos and music I have. - I'll agree with OP that with time most of Apple's software became less featureful though but still, alternatives to a lot of software do exist. One thing I gradually got tired of is having to pony up cash for literally everything. Even good music players cost money.
lrvick 5y ago
Can you switch easily? Cheaply? Would you not need to sell all that hardware and fundamentally overhaul your technical life to switch away from Apple? If Apple wants to deploy a new update that scans all your files for anything they deem undesirable, or bundles ads, or add backdoors... they can, knowing the cost of most users to switch is too high so they will tolerate it. Don't think they won't aid spying if the USG asks them extra nice. Apple has totally sold control of their hardware in China to the Chinese government with full knowledge it will be used to help with genocide, all to maintain doing business there. They will do whatever is the most profitable regardless of if it is aligned with your interests or not. I only rely on open source software and best effort open hardware/firmware because freedom to me means no lock-in. No one can force me to take a software, firmware, or hardware update I don't want. My reliance on tech is highly flexible. In my quest to become a more capable engineer it was worth the extra effort to learn how computers work well enough to make them do exactly what I want with whatever software, firmware, or hardware I want for both my personal and work life. I built a career on those skills.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  > Would you not need to sell all that hardware and fundamentally overhaul your technical life to switch away from Apple? Wouldn't need to purchase new hardware and "fundamentally overhaul your technical life" to the exact same extent in order to switch to the Apple system?
amelius 5y ago
> That said, I've never turned iCloud on Until Apple decides to use some dark-patterns to make you activate iCloud in a moment of inattentiveness. At that point, your own CDs and other data might be wiped from your computer, as has already happened to people. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/48830 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/48830
irrational 5y ago
Wow, I had to check the username to make sure I didn’t write this. I kept nodding all the way through. The only area of divergence is I don’t have any Apple TV videos. Otherwise, we could be twins.
lnxg33k1 5y ago
You can't even install apps outside of the app store and don't feel controlled, i mean everyone is different and have different opinions but there needs to be a limit to the amount of ham on the eyes, what should they do more, handcuff you and put you in a genius bar decorated jail?
- simonh 5y ago
  If I use an Android libre distribution how many more apps do I have the ability to install that I couldn’t on the iPhone? Next, how many iPhone Apps would I lose access to, and never be able to run on my new phone? The fact is for most people there are many, many more apps they actually want to run in the App Store than there are available for the libre platforms. Unless you’re a developer and write all your own software, the fact is you’re controlled by the people who are programmers, whether they work for Apple or any platform. They decide what your choices are. What matters to customers is the range of options they actually have, and Apple gives them a lot more choice, more of which are relevant to them, by a huge margin.
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    We were talking about being limited, is the ability to non sideload apps on iPhones a limit? Is this limit set by Apple? Are you then limited by Apple? Then we can go all the way through whataboutism, but that's a limit
    - simonh 5y ago
      Of course it is, but in practice they are both limitations. When a non mobile developer user looks at these limitations, they generally just look at the actual ranges of applications available to them in practice. The theoretical freedoms the libre way grants them frankly puts very few apps on the table in practice. It's great in theory, but it just doesn't come up with the goods.

mark_l_watson 5y ago

I don't disagree with you, I use Apple gear (plus one nice Chromebook and 2 Linux laptops) but I use iCloud, Google Drive, and Microsoft OneDrive. For sensitive backups, I ZIP + password protect my financial records, consulting client work materials when they ask me to keep copies for future support, etc. I love messing around with my Linux laptops (and Chromebook with Linux container support), but for my main digital life, the integrations of Apple Watch + iPhone + iPad + MacBook Pro are the best option for me. I would like to see a wider ecosystem and I keep hoping that Microsoft keeps improving the Windows experience and Linux distress keep improving. EDIT: I am also a fan of Google, with some restrictions: I turn off all data collection settings except for music and YouTube for 30 days, and GCP for forever. PRIVACY IS POWER: you put yourself in a better position vs. corporations (and governments) if you take sensible privacy precautions.

advael 5y ago

Again, use whatever you like most, but you're mistaking a lack of conflict with Apple for a lack of control. You like the way Apple's products work for you. Great. You can own media you've produced, and don't particularly care about the distribution model of media you consume. Awesome. These are all great reasons for you to want to use Apple's stuff Personally, I like to save media I consume, and increasingly this is contrary to the business models of media companies. It's good that Apple lets you take your photos elsewhere, but I don't want them to have access to what's on my device, and the reality of Apple's ecosystem is that they have root on and internet-connected access to your devices, at least the smartphones. Personally, I like using tools that I can rely on staying the same. If software I use to make things I want to make changes, I can go back and get a previous version. I can go fork it and change it if I desire. With proprietary tools, you take the risk that a change will be made and you won't like it. You take the risk that they'll decide to move to a subscription model and deny you use of a tool you've already bought unless you start paying the company on a schedule, as Adobe users have experienced recently. If these possibilities have never affected you and don't bother you, by all means, use the tools and services you like

pdimitar 5y ago
Good points. Personally I'm looking into moving to Linux for most of my personal and work computing for these reasons: - Scanning each binary on macOS just makes working on the terminal -- and just being a dev in general! -- have much more friction that it needs to. I don't care if it's about my security. While my iMac Pro is "sleeping" the logs show it's actually waking up each 2 to 5 minutes; surely they can passively scan some binaries then and leave me alone after that! The whole process just becomes sluggish. I've lately worked on a Linux laptop with a Ryzen 5500U CPU which is nowhere near the power of my iMac Pro's CPU and it was still times faster for most of my development workflow. (Obviously you can't magically make Rust compilation faster on a mobile CPU but literally everything else was faster.) - Control over photos and music. Yeah, Apple got a bit too creepy for me there. I have a ton of photos, memes, erotic photography, nature walpapers etc. and the Photos app can be much better. But alas, it isn't. At one point I'll just install PhotoSync and start backing up all my iCloud photos to my NAS. And then install a better gallery on my phone and laptop and just be done with it. Same for music. The whole thing is just tailored towards the copyright industry. One day I'll not be able to play whatever music I actually pay sub for and that's when I'll leave, in the meantime I am backing up any and all photos and music I have. - I'll agree with OP that with time most of Apple's software became less featureful though but still, alternatives to a lot of software do exist. One thing I gradually got tired of is having to pony up cash for literally everything. Even good music players cost money.

lrvick 5y ago

Can you switch easily? Cheaply? Would you not need to sell all that hardware and fundamentally overhaul your technical life to switch away from Apple? If Apple wants to deploy a new update that scans all your files for anything they deem undesirable, or bundles ads, or add backdoors... they can, knowing the cost of most users to switch is too high so they will tolerate it. Don't think they won't aid spying if the USG asks them extra nice. Apple has totally sold control of their hardware in China to the Chinese government with full knowledge it will be used to help with genocide, all to maintain doing business there. They will do whatever is the most profitable regardless of if it is aligned with your interests or not. I only rely on open source software and best effort open hardware/firmware because freedom to me means no lock-in. No one can force me to take a software, firmware, or hardware update I don't want. My reliance on tech is highly flexible. In my quest to become a more capable engineer it was worth the extra effort to learn how computers work well enough to make them do exactly what I want with whatever software, firmware, or hardware I want for both my personal and work life. I built a career on those skills.

tshaddox 5y ago
> Would you not need to sell all that hardware and fundamentally overhaul your technical life to switch away from Apple? Wouldn't need to purchase new hardware and "fundamentally overhaul your technical life" to the exact same extent in order to switch to the Apple system?

amelius 5y ago

> That said, I've never turned iCloud on Until Apple decides to use some dark-patterns to make you activate iCloud in a moment of inattentiveness. At that point, your own CDs and other data might be wiped from your computer, as has already happened to people. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/48830 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/48830

irrational 5y ago

Wow, I had to check the username to make sure I didn’t write this. I kept nodding all the way through. The only area of divergence is I don’t have any Apple TV videos. Otherwise, we could be twins.

lnxg33k1 5y ago

You can't even install apps outside of the app store and don't feel controlled, i mean everyone is different and have different opinions but there needs to be a limit to the amount of ham on the eyes, what should they do more, handcuff you and put you in a genius bar decorated jail?

simonh 5y ago
If I use an Android libre distribution how many more apps do I have the ability to install that I couldn’t on the iPhone? Next, how many iPhone Apps would I lose access to, and never be able to run on my new phone? The fact is for most people there are many, many more apps they actually want to run in the App Store than there are available for the libre platforms. Unless you’re a developer and write all your own software, the fact is you’re controlled by the people who are programmers, whether they work for Apple or any platform. They decide what your choices are. What matters to customers is the range of options they actually have, and Apple gives them a lot more choice, more of which are relevant to them, by a huge margin.
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  We were talking about being limited, is the ability to non sideload apps on iPhones a limit? Is this limit set by Apple? Are you then limited by Apple? Then we can go all the way through whataboutism, but that's a limit
  - simonh 5y ago
    Of course it is, but in practice they are both limitations. When a non mobile developer user looks at these limitations, they generally just look at the actual ranges of applications available to them in practice. The theoretical freedoms the libre way grants them frankly puts very few apps on the table in practice. It's great in theory, but it just doesn't come up with the goods.