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Some things never change. Talk about switching OSes and the entire comment thread becomes about dancing around calling people wrong about their aesthetic UX pre

by advael 5y ago

Some things never change. Talk about switching OSes and the entire comment thread becomes about dancing around calling people wrong about their aesthetic UX preferences I think if anything, this post illustrates that no matter how many people you pay to do it, there's no "objectively better" workflow for everyone, and preferences will always be individual When I try to convince people to use *nix OSes or FOSS tools generally, my one and only argument is the value of having control, or, perhaps more saliently, not being controlled by the company that makes your tools. If that doesn't persuade you, then just use whatever you like best. Your preferences are your own, and no amount of supposed expertise or practiced snobbishness can make your preferences override mine, or vice versa.

whartung 5y ago
That's all well and good and noble. But I don't feel controlled by Apple. I have Macs, iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple TV. The whole kit. I am "invested". That said, I've never turned iCloud on, all my photos are on my phone or my computer, all my iTunes music is downloaded to my machine, free to take with me. (I also still buy physical CDs.) I don't sync anything. The only place this isn't true is the Apple TV videos I've bought. Don't know where they are, but I don't really care to be honest. If Apple didn't know about my rental habits, Blockbuster would. What difference does it make. I have enough dusty DVDs in my drawer that I don't think I'd miss if they suddenly vanished, I'm not that tied to the content I've purchased on Apple either. I know what I'm getting in to when I do it, and it's OK with me. The other aspect would be the apps I've got from the App Store. If I were move off of iOS those wouldn't be coming with me anyway, so...no drama there. And why do I not use iCloud? Not because of any big brother eyeball on me. I don't use it the same reason I don't use a Smart TV, or a "smart home", or anything else. It's just one more thing designed to make my life easier that simply won't. As soon as it messes up (and it WILL mess up, catastrophically, and at the worst time. Everyone has stories), whatever value its added will be washed away. As I like to say, I love programming, but I hate computers. I hate messing with them, configuring them, tweaking them, googling for arcane stuff. I never want to hear the word "driver" ever again if I can avoid it. My Macs and Apple stuff, that I use, pretty much "just works". I keep my profile as thin and light as possible. The printer works, on all my machines and devices! Hallelujah! Air Drop works! I can serve videos from my Mac to the my Apple TV. +1! So, whatever control Apple has over me, I think the boot on my neck might instead just be a flip flop, and I can get up whenever I want.
- mark_l_watson 5y ago
  I don't disagree with you, I use Apple gear (plus one nice Chromebook and 2 Linux laptops) but I use iCloud, Google Drive, and Microsoft OneDrive. For sensitive backups, I ZIP + password protect my financial records, consulting client work materials when they ask me to keep copies for future support, etc. I love messing around with my Linux laptops (and Chromebook with Linux container support), but for my main digital life, the integrations of Apple Watch + iPhone + iPad + MacBook Pro are the best option for me. I would like to see a wider ecosystem and I keep hoping that Microsoft keeps improving the Windows experience and Linux distress keep improving. EDIT: I am also a fan of Google, with some restrictions: I turn off all data collection settings except for music and YouTube for 30 days, and GCP for forever. PRIVACY IS POWER: you put yourself in a better position vs. corporations (and governments) if you take sensible privacy precautions.
- advael 5y ago
  Again, use whatever you like most, but you're mistaking a lack of conflict with Apple for a lack of control. You like the way Apple's products work for you. Great. You can own media you've produced, and don't particularly care about the distribution model of media you consume. Awesome. These are all great reasons for you to want to use Apple's stuff Personally, I like to save media I consume, and increasingly this is contrary to the business models of media companies. It's good that Apple lets you take your photos elsewhere, but I don't want them to have access to what's on my device, and the reality of Apple's ecosystem is that they have root on and internet-connected access to your devices, at least the smartphones. Personally, I like using tools that I can rely on staying the same. If software I use to make things I want to make changes, I can go back and get a previous version. I can go fork it and change it if I desire. With proprietary tools, you take the risk that a change will be made and you won't like it. You take the risk that they'll decide to move to a subscription model and deny you use of a tool you've already bought unless you start paying the company on a schedule, as Adobe users have experienced recently. If these possibilities have never affected you and don't bother you, by all means, use the tools and services you like
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Good points. Personally I'm looking into moving to Linux for most of my personal and work computing for these reasons: - Scanning each binary on macOS just makes working on the terminal -- and just being a dev in general! -- have much more friction that it needs to. I don't care if it's about my security. While my iMac Pro is "sleeping" the logs show it's actually waking up each 2 to 5 minutes; surely they can passively scan some binaries then and leave me alone after that! The whole process just becomes sluggish. I've lately worked on a Linux laptop with a Ryzen 5500U CPU which is nowhere near the power of my iMac Pro's CPU and it was still times faster for most of my development workflow. (Obviously you can't magically make Rust compilation faster on a mobile CPU but literally everything else was faster.) - Control over photos and music. Yeah, Apple got a bit too creepy for me there. I have a ton of photos, memes, erotic photography, nature walpapers etc. and the Photos app can be much better. But alas, it isn't. At one point I'll just install PhotoSync and start backing up all my iCloud photos to my NAS. And then install a better gallery on my phone and laptop and just be done with it. Same for music. The whole thing is just tailored towards the copyright industry. One day I'll not be able to play whatever music I actually pay sub for and that's when I'll leave, in the meantime I am backing up any and all photos and music I have. - I'll agree with OP that with time most of Apple's software became less featureful though but still, alternatives to a lot of software do exist. One thing I gradually got tired of is having to pony up cash for literally everything. Even good music players cost money.
lostgame 5y ago
My preferences are irrelevant when I can’t natively run the commercial software I require to do my job(s) on the OS you suggest. If Linux can work for you - especially in your office - you are a privileged minority. With MacOS, I get the underlying UNIX subsystem - and the ability to use commercial software, to boot. Even Windows has WSL nowadays. And you can downvote me - you can disagree with me - but deep down; you know nothing you can say is going to change the fact that - for example - I rely on Apple’s Logic Pro X; and have a decade and a half of Logic files. It would take an immeasurable amount of effort to somehow extract the MIDI and audio data from those files, and somehow convert them into Ardour files. I would lose EQ and compressor settings - and - even then, the plugins I use - iZotope and Native Instruments software, in particular - wouldn’t work. That’s just one simple example - and there’s one of those for almost anyone. The larger one is the corporate/enterprise situation, where proprietary applications are often hanging on by a thread with the office ecosystem as-is, and - no - they will not convert these applications over to Linux. They won’t update those applications to start. Linux is great, it’s awesome that it exists, and it can work for a very small minority of people.
- advael 5y ago
  I agree that enterprise-level collusion has locked you and many others into proprietary platforms. Again, I advocate using whatever tools work best for you, if your priority is not control over your tools. Every year the FOSS ecosystems get more usable for more purposes, but if your job tells you you have to use a particular tool, then you don't really have much of a choice, as you say.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Not sure why you are downvoted. It's indeed true that many times you don't have a say over what software or even OS you have to use for your work. For a lot of us the software devs we do have the choice -- but even then we naturally converge to macOS or Linux due to less friction and more productivity. And yep, entrenching is basically the name of the game for most orgs. They are deathly scared of change. Linux will not change that. It changes the game for the professionals, not the companies (and even that is not 100% true; they still use Linux servers for almost everything).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by advael 5y ago

whartung 5y ago

That's all well and good and noble. But I don't feel controlled by Apple. I have Macs, iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple TV. The whole kit. I am "invested". That said, I've never turned iCloud on, all my photos are on my phone or my computer, all my iTunes music is downloaded to my machine, free to take with me. (I also still buy physical CDs.) I don't sync anything. The only place this isn't true is the Apple TV videos I've bought. Don't know where they are, but I don't really care to be honest. If Apple didn't know about my rental habits, Blockbuster would. What difference does it make. I have enough dusty DVDs in my drawer that I don't think I'd miss if they suddenly vanished, I'm not that tied to the content I've purchased on Apple either. I know what I'm getting in to when I do it, and it's OK with me. The other aspect would be the apps I've got from the App Store. If I were move off of iOS those wouldn't be coming with me anyway, so...no drama there. And why do I not use iCloud? Not because of any big brother eyeball on me. I don't use it the same reason I don't use a Smart TV, or a "smart home", or anything else. It's just one more thing designed to make my life easier that simply won't. As soon as it messes up (and it WILL mess up, catastrophically, and at the worst time. Everyone has stories), whatever value its added will be washed away. As I like to say, I love programming, but I hate computers. I hate messing with them, configuring them, tweaking them, googling for arcane stuff. I never want to hear the word "driver" ever again if I can avoid it. My Macs and Apple stuff, that I use, pretty much "just works". I keep my profile as thin and light as possible. The printer works, on all my machines and devices! Hallelujah! Air Drop works! I can serve videos from my Mac to the my Apple TV. +1! So, whatever control Apple has over me, I think the boot on my neck might instead just be a flip flop, and I can get up whenever I want.

mark_l_watson 5y ago
I don't disagree with you, I use Apple gear (plus one nice Chromebook and 2 Linux laptops) but I use iCloud, Google Drive, and Microsoft OneDrive. For sensitive backups, I ZIP + password protect my financial records, consulting client work materials when they ask me to keep copies for future support, etc. I love messing around with my Linux laptops (and Chromebook with Linux container support), but for my main digital life, the integrations of Apple Watch + iPhone + iPad + MacBook Pro are the best option for me. I would like to see a wider ecosystem and I keep hoping that Microsoft keeps improving the Windows experience and Linux distress keep improving. EDIT: I am also a fan of Google, with some restrictions: I turn off all data collection settings except for music and YouTube for 30 days, and GCP for forever. PRIVACY IS POWER: you put yourself in a better position vs. corporations (and governments) if you take sensible privacy precautions.
advael 5y ago
Again, use whatever you like most, but you're mistaking a lack of conflict with Apple for a lack of control. You like the way Apple's products work for you. Great. You can own media you've produced, and don't particularly care about the distribution model of media you consume. Awesome. These are all great reasons for you to want to use Apple's stuff Personally, I like to save media I consume, and increasingly this is contrary to the business models of media companies. It's good that Apple lets you take your photos elsewhere, but I don't want them to have access to what's on my device, and the reality of Apple's ecosystem is that they have root on and internet-connected access to your devices, at least the smartphones. Personally, I like using tools that I can rely on staying the same. If software I use to make things I want to make changes, I can go back and get a previous version. I can go fork it and change it if I desire. With proprietary tools, you take the risk that a change will be made and you won't like it. You take the risk that they'll decide to move to a subscription model and deny you use of a tool you've already bought unless you start paying the company on a schedule, as Adobe users have experienced recently. If these possibilities have never affected you and don't bother you, by all means, use the tools and services you like
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Good points. Personally I'm looking into moving to Linux for most of my personal and work computing for these reasons: - Scanning each binary on macOS just makes working on the terminal -- and just being a dev in general! -- have much more friction that it needs to. I don't care if it's about my security. While my iMac Pro is "sleeping" the logs show it's actually waking up each 2 to 5 minutes; surely they can passively scan some binaries then and leave me alone after that! The whole process just becomes sluggish. I've lately worked on a Linux laptop with a Ryzen 5500U CPU which is nowhere near the power of my iMac Pro's CPU and it was still times faster for most of my development workflow. (Obviously you can't magically make Rust compilation faster on a mobile CPU but literally everything else was faster.) - Control over photos and music. Yeah, Apple got a bit too creepy for me there. I have a ton of photos, memes, erotic photography, nature walpapers etc. and the Photos app can be much better. But alas, it isn't. At one point I'll just install PhotoSync and start backing up all my iCloud photos to my NAS. And then install a better gallery on my phone and laptop and just be done with it. Same for music. The whole thing is just tailored towards the copyright industry. One day I'll not be able to play whatever music I actually pay sub for and that's when I'll leave, in the meantime I am backing up any and all photos and music I have. - I'll agree with OP that with time most of Apple's software became less featureful though but still, alternatives to a lot of software do exist. One thing I gradually got tired of is having to pony up cash for literally everything. Even good music players cost money.

lostgame 5y ago

My preferences are irrelevant when I can’t natively run the commercial software I require to do my job(s) on the OS you suggest. If Linux can work for you - especially in your office - you are a privileged minority. With MacOS, I get the underlying UNIX subsystem - and the ability to use commercial software, to boot. Even Windows has WSL nowadays. And you can downvote me - you can disagree with me - but deep down; you know nothing you can say is going to change the fact that - for example - I rely on Apple’s Logic Pro X; and have a decade and a half of Logic files. It would take an immeasurable amount of effort to somehow extract the MIDI and audio data from those files, and somehow convert them into Ardour files. I would lose EQ and compressor settings - and - even then, the plugins I use - iZotope and Native Instruments software, in particular - wouldn’t work. That’s just one simple example - and there’s one of those for almost anyone. The larger one is the corporate/enterprise situation, where proprietary applications are often hanging on by a thread with the office ecosystem as-is, and - no - they will not convert these applications over to Linux. They won’t update those applications to start. Linux is great, it’s awesome that it exists, and it can work for a very small minority of people.

advael 5y ago
I agree that enterprise-level collusion has locked you and many others into proprietary platforms. Again, I advocate using whatever tools work best for you, if your priority is not control over your tools. Every year the FOSS ecosystems get more usable for more purposes, but if your job tells you you have to use a particular tool, then you don't really have much of a choice, as you say.
pdimitar 5y ago
Not sure why you are downvoted. It's indeed true that many times you don't have a say over what software or even OS you have to use for your work. For a lot of us the software devs we do have the choice -- but even then we naturally converge to macOS or Linux due to less friction and more productivity. And yep, entrenching is basically the name of the game for most orgs. They are deathly scared of change. Linux will not change that. It changes the game for the professionals, not the companies (and even that is not 100% true; they still use Linux servers for almost everything).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]