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I can’t take helium seriously because it’s an ICO scheme wrapped in a thinly plausible veneer of being about peer-to-peer communication. If you come up with a

by wyager 5y ago

I can’t take helium seriously because it’s an ICO scheme wrapped in a thinly plausible veneer of being about peer-to-peer communication. If you come up with a peer-to-peer network technology, and you want people to take it seriously, don’t try to make a quick buck off it. If it needs payments for routing or whatever, just use an existing payment technology like lightning or something. It would be hard to sound more like a hype scam if they tried: “Powered by the Helium Blockchain, The People’s Network represents a paradigm shift for decentralized wireless infrastructure.” Edit: against my better judgment I read some of the technical stuff on their site. This is either decentralized in name only or vulnerable to Sybil attacks.

delabay 5y ago
They have already built the worlds largest contiguous Lorawan network (a spectrum and application woefully underserved in the united states), and the network grows at 40-50% monthly. Token distribution is inherently tied to providing provably useful coverage, and "miners" use as much electricity as an LED lightbulb. This is probably the most socially useful, productive means of mining crypto conceived so far.
heyrhett 5y ago
Helium literally never did an ICO. So funny watching bitter losers at hackernews get everything about blockchain wrong and stay poor over the past 10 years. - Throw in some buzzwords you don't really understand like "lightning" (does not apply to helium as it is a protocol based on bitcoin script) - use the word "scam" because you don't own any and you didn't invest a few months ago when it was pennies. - sprinkle in some unfounded FUD about decentralization and Sybil attacks because you're bitter you still don't own any Helium is the fastest growing wireless network on the planet. There are currently 190,000 hotspots over the globe, up from 20,000 6-months ago. https://explorer.helium.com/ https://explorer.helium.com/ ...but but but against your better judgement you read some of the technical stuff... wooooowwwww Call me when the Helium node count drops below 100,000 again and I'll congratulate you and thank you for warning everyone about this "scam" before it was too late.
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  One scam here is that there will likely be ubiquitous sensors in your tv, door bell, car, fridge, heater and they won't be reporting back to you. They'll be telling the sellers of these devices about your activities, and it will be sold just like connected tvs today sell info about what you watch.
  - delabay 5y ago
    All these devices must be FCC certified so if you don't like the products, dont buy them. There are already thousands of societal beneficial uses of lorawan.
    - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
      Like what? No one wanted tvs to spy on them via the internet connections, they just wanted connected tvs with built in streaming devices. Today for any privacy you have to buy your own streaming device and not connect your tv itself to the internet. In the very near future, most devices will come with a low power radio that can't be turned off (just like you basically can't turn off the ubiquitous spying from your streaming connected tv). This network aids that.
- wyager 5y ago
  > Helium literally never did an ICO. They clearly have some sort of central issuance because they have an airdrop. Their “proof” mechanism is either centralized or Sybil vulnerable - haven’t bothered checking which. > So funny watching bitter losers at hackernews get everything about blockchain wrong and stay poor over the past 10 years. This is a hilariously off-the-mark shot. I have nothing against blockchain when used where it’s actually useful (I.e. for solving double-spend or zooko). This, however, seems like a silly misapplication. > Throw in some buzzwords you don't really understand like "lightning" I think you did not understand what I said, which is that payment for network services should use normal payment mechanisms instead of special ones.
  - delabay 5y ago
vmception 5y ago
> This is either decentralized in name only or vulnerable to Sybil attacks. The Helium network does a variety of things to mitigate sybil attacks by requiring/incentivizing geographic distance between the routers. There are other proof-of-coverage systems where all of your criticisms would apply, such as MXC (the hotspot version, not the exchange) as they do allow individuals to just hoard a bunch of hotspots in one place and try to earn, reducing the health of the network. You should reserve your judgements for the ones doing it wrong and compare it to the ones doing it right or at least differently.
- wyager 5y ago
  It sounds like the thing they actually do is have a centralized architecture with one entity issuing miner private keys for $40 each. It’s DINO (decentralized in name only)
  - vmception 5y ago
    so the point of decentralization pushes is for the censorship resistance. if helium organization went away today, there would still be 192,000 nodes that still get to function and perpetuate the network. so basically, nobody cares about that particular area of centralization and it allows for vetted hardware that meets some additional standards to come onto the network (at one point they didn't gatekeep and allowed any hardware). I think this role can go away though.
    - wyager 5y ago
      > so basically, nobody cares about that particular area of centralization except for anyone who cares about cryptosystems actually being cryptographically secure and decentralized instead of just serving as a thin excuse to drive hype. > I think this role can go away though. The eternal refrain of shitcoins is “I think we can fix this later”. That never seems to end up being correct.
      - vmception 5y ago
joezydeco 5y ago
I've got a Mark 1 Helium IoT kit in the basement somewhere. You want it?

by wyager 5y ago

delabay 5y ago

They have already built the worlds largest contiguous Lorawan network (a spectrum and application woefully underserved in the united states), and the network grows at 40-50% monthly. Token distribution is inherently tied to providing provably useful coverage, and "miners" use as much electricity as an LED lightbulb. This is probably the most socially useful, productive means of mining crypto conceived so far.

heyrhett 5y ago

Helium literally never did an ICO. So funny watching bitter losers at hackernews get everything about blockchain wrong and stay poor over the past 10 years. - Throw in some buzzwords you don't really understand like "lightning" (does not apply to helium as it is a protocol based on bitcoin script) - use the word "scam" because you don't own any and you didn't invest a few months ago when it was pennies. - sprinkle in some unfounded FUD about decentralization and Sybil attacks because you're bitter you still don't own any Helium is the fastest growing wireless network on the planet. There are currently 190,000 hotspots over the globe, up from 20,000 6-months ago. https://explorer.helium.com/ https://explorer.helium.com/ ...but but but against your better judgement you read some of the technical stuff... wooooowwwww Call me when the Helium node count drops below 100,000 again and I'll congratulate you and thank you for warning everyone about this "scam" before it was too late.

NotSammyHagar 5y ago
One scam here is that there will likely be ubiquitous sensors in your tv, door bell, car, fridge, heater and they won't be reporting back to you. They'll be telling the sellers of these devices about your activities, and it will be sold just like connected tvs today sell info about what you watch.
- delabay 5y ago
  All these devices must be FCC certified so if you don't like the products, dont buy them. There are already thousands of societal beneficial uses of lorawan.
  - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
    Like what? No one wanted tvs to spy on them via the internet connections, they just wanted connected tvs with built in streaming devices. Today for any privacy you have to buy your own streaming device and not connect your tv itself to the internet. In the very near future, most devices will come with a low power radio that can't be turned off (just like you basically can't turn off the ubiquitous spying from your streaming connected tv). This network aids that.
wyager 5y ago
> Helium literally never did an ICO. They clearly have some sort of central issuance because they have an airdrop. Their “proof” mechanism is either centralized or Sybil vulnerable - haven’t bothered checking which. > So funny watching bitter losers at hackernews get everything about blockchain wrong and stay poor over the past 10 years. This is a hilariously off-the-mark shot. I have nothing against blockchain when used where it’s actually useful (I.e. for solving double-spend or zooko). This, however, seems like a silly misapplication. > Throw in some buzzwords you don't really understand like "lightning" I think you did not understand what I said, which is that payment for network services should use normal payment mechanisms instead of special ones.
- delabay 5y ago

vmception 5y ago

> This is either decentralized in name only or vulnerable to Sybil attacks. The Helium network does a variety of things to mitigate sybil attacks by requiring/incentivizing geographic distance between the routers. There are other proof-of-coverage systems where all of your criticisms would apply, such as MXC (the hotspot version, not the exchange) as they do allow individuals to just hoard a bunch of hotspots in one place and try to earn, reducing the health of the network. You should reserve your judgements for the ones doing it wrong and compare it to the ones doing it right or at least differently.

wyager 5y ago
It sounds like the thing they actually do is have a centralized architecture with one entity issuing miner private keys for $40 each. It’s DINO (decentralized in name only)
- vmception 5y ago
  so the point of decentralization pushes is for the censorship resistance. if helium organization went away today, there would still be 192,000 nodes that still get to function and perpetuate the network. so basically, nobody cares about that particular area of centralization and it allows for vetted hardware that meets some additional standards to come onto the network (at one point they didn't gatekeep and allowed any hardware). I think this role can go away though.
  - wyager 5y ago
    > so basically, nobody cares about that particular area of centralization except for anyone who cares about cryptosystems actually being cryptographically secure and decentralized instead of just serving as a thin excuse to drive hype. > I think this role can go away though. The eternal refrain of shitcoins is “I think we can fix this later”. That never seems to end up being correct.
    - vmception 5y ago

joezydeco 5y ago

I've got a Mark 1 Helium IoT kit in the basement somewhere. You want it?