5 ms·

It will be fun to watch people be positive on this until they are reminded who we have to thank for it. Edit: CNN hasn't forgotten, notice the obvious negative

by gfodor 5y ago

It will be fun to watch people be positive on this until they are reminded who we have to thank for it. Edit: CNN hasn't forgotten, notice the obvious negative spin, with literally zero argument of how this may be beneficial: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/hospital-price-transparency-trump-rule/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/hospital-price-trans...

mullingitover 5y ago
I mean, that's nice, but I'm not going to fall all over myself thanking the people who have fought viciously for decades to maintain the current profit-driven health care system and block single payer health care. It's like an abusive spouse who, out of the blue, brings you flowers and chocolate.
- gfodor 5y ago
  Wasn't really my point. My point is that you should expect to see all kinds of mental gymnastics around answering the question of if this is a positive change or not.
dehrmann 5y ago
Biden doesn't run his mouth when he shouldn't, but foreign policy with China and along the southern border are essentially the same as under Trump, and the Afghanistan withdrawal alienated some NATO allies. Biden is carrying over more of Trump's policies than you'd expect.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Presidents come and go, but the Blob is eternal.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    It is funny/depressing to think how different our country would be today if Bernie had been the 2016 dem nominee.
    - jimmygrapes 5y ago
      The most depressing thing is that it likely wouldn't have changed much. Congress (of which Bernie is still part of and has been for decades) is the one with the power to make these changes, the President is just the scapegoat/hero.
trixie_ 5y ago
I'm not a fan of the guy, but this is probably the most important/good thing he did with his presidency. Price transparency is the most fundamental first step to driving down health care costs. Once people get a taste of it, it will drive even more, better and accurate data. Start real conversations about costs and open the door to measureable improvement through innovation.
- mullingitover 5y ago
  Price transparency is a pointless shell game designed to keep everyone strung along on the entrenched, failed system. When you're having a heart attack, the last thing you're doing is shopping around for the best prices on heart attack emergency treatment. The free market has no place in health care, because in the hands of the free market the first thing that will happen in a life-threatening emergency is for you to transfer 100% of your wealth to the party that has 100% of the leverage.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    >When you're having a heart attack, the last thing you're doing is shopping around for the best prices on heart attack emergency treatment. This is a tired, nonsensical argument. The vast, vast majority of medical procedures are not last minute emergencies. Furthermore, with price transparency you will clearly be able to evaluate which hospitals may or may not be generally in your price range and choose a default to visit for an emergency (assuming you're not carted off in an ambulance). More importantly, this will absolutely force competition and some degree of price correction.
  - xur17 5y ago
    I agree that it's pointless for emergency surgery, but there are plenty of other cases where a consumer could shop around (colonoscopy, ACL repair, etc), and I'd argue these are actually the majority rather than the minority of cases. To me it comes down to - if we are going to pretend we have a market based system for health care (that's what we say we have now), we need pricing transparency to have any hope of it working.
mcguire 5y ago
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
You mean Bill Clinton in the early 90's? It was part of the Clinton health care reform. But maybe you're not that old. ;-) Every president has pushed for this except Bush Jr. Glad it finally happened even if it was under who I consider to be the worst president* in the last 100 years of US history. Doesn't mean I need to thank him. If you were being tortured in a Mexican cartel prison, would you thank the torturer for giving you glass of water?
- tormlop 5y ago
  You seem upset.
- neither_color 5y ago
  I think it's sad that you can end a sentence with Bush Jr and then not call him the worst president in the next sentence. My vote for worst president in living memory is the guy who started two pointless trillion dollar wars, the latter of which took 20 years to close up in a humiliating retreat, but that's just me. This is not a defense of he who isn't being named here btw.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Thinking that trump is the worst president in the past 100 years just betrays either an insane privilege[1] or just ignorance. You realize the hundreds of thousands of lives lost directly or indirectly in the war on terror, a war almost completely engineered by the Bush administration, are actually real right? They were people with hopes, plans, dreams that were all wiped out, and for a lot of those who are still alive they are condemned to live in a cycle of violence caused again by the war on terror and it's ripple effects. If you compare that to what trump did in his 4 years and come up with the conclusion that hey, it wasn't as bad & Donald truly is the worst president... Then I don't even know what to tell you. I'm Muslim and I've grown up my entire life with that war and its consequences in the background, especially since we mostly consumed arabic media. I've thankfully not been affected directly, but man do these takes completely discredit the side that keeps pushing them instantly for me. We are at a point where even the notoriously neocon hawkish republican party and their voters are a lot more willing to acknowledge just how horrible those people were, yet democrats have no problem completely rehabilitating the old neocon crew because hey yeah they killed people but at least they were... Polite about it? I get that it's unhinged crusading politics and we just have to paint the adversary as the worst person ever to feel the rush of being morally superior but when you are at the point where you defend George W Bush to own the magahats, maybe take a step back and reflect on what you are doing. The worst part is that now that bed has been made and apologism for those neocons became a mainstream talking point, everyone is just doubling down because admitting that trump isn't actually even close to being worst would be to admit that maybe the hysteria to score political points didn't warrant sweeping under the rug 2 enormously destructive wars. [1] as in the privilege of not having ever been affected by the war on terror. Which in turn leads to pretty insignificant events like being concerned about the presidents tweets or feeling that you are part of some sort of feel good #resist movement for 4 years just registering as being more impactful than a region getting destabilized far away

by gfodor 5y ago

mullingitover 5y ago

I mean, that's nice, but I'm not going to fall all over myself thanking the people who have fought viciously for decades to maintain the current profit-driven health care system and block single payer health care. It's like an abusive spouse who, out of the blue, brings you flowers and chocolate.

gfodor 5y ago
Wasn't really my point. My point is that you should expect to see all kinds of mental gymnastics around answering the question of if this is a positive change or not.

dehrmann 5y ago

Biden doesn't run his mouth when he shouldn't, but foreign policy with China and along the southern border are essentially the same as under Trump, and the Afghanistan withdrawal alienated some NATO allies. Biden is carrying over more of Trump's policies than you'd expect.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
Presidents come and go, but the Blob is eternal.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  It is funny/depressing to think how different our country would be today if Bernie had been the 2016 dem nominee.
  - jimmygrapes 5y ago
    The most depressing thing is that it likely wouldn't have changed much. Congress (of which Bernie is still part of and has been for decades) is the one with the power to make these changes, the President is just the scapegoat/hero.

trixie_ 5y ago

I'm not a fan of the guy, but this is probably the most important/good thing he did with his presidency. Price transparency is the most fundamental first step to driving down health care costs. Once people get a taste of it, it will drive even more, better and accurate data. Start real conversations about costs and open the door to measureable improvement through innovation.

mullingitover 5y ago
Price transparency is a pointless shell game designed to keep everyone strung along on the entrenched, failed system. When you're having a heart attack, the last thing you're doing is shopping around for the best prices on heart attack emergency treatment. The free market has no place in health care, because in the hands of the free market the first thing that will happen in a life-threatening emergency is for you to transfer 100% of your wealth to the party that has 100% of the leverage.
- twofornone 5y ago
  >When you're having a heart attack, the last thing you're doing is shopping around for the best prices on heart attack emergency treatment. This is a tired, nonsensical argument. The vast, vast majority of medical procedures are not last minute emergencies. Furthermore, with price transparency you will clearly be able to evaluate which hospitals may or may not be generally in your price range and choose a default to visit for an emergency (assuming you're not carted off in an ambulance). More importantly, this will absolutely force competition and some degree of price correction.
- xur17 5y ago
  I agree that it's pointless for emergency surgery, but there are plenty of other cases where a consumer could shop around (colonoscopy, ACL repair, etc), and I'd argue these are actually the majority rather than the minority of cases. To me it comes down to - if we are going to pretend we have a market based system for health care (that's what we say we have now), we need pricing transparency to have any hope of it working.

mcguire 5y ago

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

You mean Bill Clinton in the early 90's? It was part of the Clinton health care reform. But maybe you're not that old. ;-) Every president has pushed for this except Bush Jr. Glad it finally happened even if it was under who I consider to be the worst president* in the last 100 years of US history. Doesn't mean I need to thank him. If you were being tortured in a Mexican cartel prison, would you thank the torturer for giving you glass of water?

tormlop 5y ago
You seem upset.
neither_color 5y ago
I think it's sad that you can end a sentence with Bush Jr and then not call him the worst president in the next sentence. My vote for worst president in living memory is the guy who started two pointless trillion dollar wars, the latter of which took 20 years to close up in a humiliating retreat, but that's just me. This is not a defense of he who isn't being named here btw.
mardifoufs 5y ago
Thinking that trump is the worst president in the past 100 years just betrays either an insane privilege[1] or just ignorance. You realize the hundreds of thousands of lives lost directly or indirectly in the war on terror, a war almost completely engineered by the Bush administration, are actually real right? They were people with hopes, plans, dreams that were all wiped out, and for a lot of those who are still alive they are condemned to live in a cycle of violence caused again by the war on terror and it's ripple effects. If you compare that to what trump did in his 4 years and come up with the conclusion that hey, it wasn't as bad & Donald truly is the worst president... Then I don't even know what to tell you. I'm Muslim and I've grown up my entire life with that war and its consequences in the background, especially since we mostly consumed arabic media. I've thankfully not been affected directly, but man do these takes completely discredit the side that keeps pushing them instantly for me. We are at a point where even the notoriously neocon hawkish republican party and their voters are a lot more willing to acknowledge just how horrible those people were, yet democrats have no problem completely rehabilitating the old neocon crew because hey yeah they killed people but at least they were... Polite about it? I get that it's unhinged crusading politics and we just have to paint the adversary as the worst person ever to feel the rush of being morally superior but when you are at the point where you defend George W Bush to own the magahats, maybe take a step back and reflect on what you are doing. The worst part is that now that bed has been made and apologism for those neocons became a mainstream talking point, everyone is just doubling down because admitting that trump isn't actually even close to being worst would be to admit that maybe the hysteria to score political points didn't warrant sweeping under the rug 2 enormously destructive wars. [1] as in the privilege of not having ever been affected by the war on terror. Which in turn leads to pretty insignificant events like being concerned about the presidents tweets or feeling that you are part of some sort of feel good #resist movement for 4 years just registering as being more impactful than a region getting destabilized far away