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Leaving the Apple ecosystem behind

• gigatexal 5y ago
  If you ever wanted to know if being in the Apple ecosystem is sometimes like being part of a religion, just watch at how far people will go to tell you they have left the ecosystem...
• rvz 5y ago
  Good. To each to their own. Maybe your use case is different from others and the OS you moved from somehow got in your way. In my case; time wasted is money lost and with no money made means affordability becomes a problem. The best OS platform ecosystem I use is the one that not only saves time, but also saves me spending money whilst continuing to make me the most money.
• bhaak 5y ago
  Arch is not something for people that want to just use their devices. It's something for people who love to tinker. Updates break something so often that I wonder if it somehow is sponsored by other OS developers to make them look good.
  • rusticpenn 5y ago
    That's part of the arch experience.
  • Grollicus 5y ago
    I'm running Arch on my home laptop and my server. Had one breakage in ~5 years where sshd wouldn't start anymore because they deprecated and then removed a config option. What do you do that regularly breaks?
  • ericwooley 5y ago
    Been running it almost a year now, without anything breaking except some gnome extensions.
  • horsawlarway 5y ago
    I mostly agree with you that Arch is for folks who love to tinker. But you must have some strange workflows going - I've been on arch fulltime for 3 years now, and my one breakage was that dash-to-dock didn't play nicely with a new version of gnome. Frankly - it's a far better experience than the 16inch macbook pro my work issued me - that has problems with fans, problems with lag during zoom calls, problems with accelerated rendering in chrome, issues with wifi and bluetooth connections. I literally call it my crapbook it's so bad.
    • bhaak 5y ago
      What I didn't know in the beginning (coming from Gentoo) was that Arch doesn't support updating specific packages. That explained some of my initial problems but I still have regular breakages. Right now my sound is broken and it stayed broken even after an update and reboot (That you have to reboot so often is something else that bothers me. Rebooting a Linux/Unix machine feels so wrong). Your MacBook problems sound like hardware problems. That's not something I would expect from any decent laptop these days.
  • worble 5y ago
    Been running it for a few years now, I can only remember two or three times which have required manual intervention (and even then it was a one liner described on the arch news page). Compared to the hell that was upgrading Ubuntu versions every couple of years, I'll take Arch's way any day.
  • wayneftw 5y ago
    Manjaro is and that's based on Arch. They curate the updates for you to prevent breakages and the need to tinker endlessly. I've been running it for 3 years on 4 machines and I've had far less breakage from updates than with my Windows or Mac machines.
    • entropea 5y ago
      Manjaro is one of the only distro's I've used that has nuked itself during updates. I moved to Endeavor because I was sick of the Manjaro maintained repos.
  • i_use_arch_btw 5y ago
    I've been daily-driving Arch for two years now, and I've only seen it break a handful of times. And since I set it up using the command line tools, I knew which ones to use to fix it. Arch lets me engage with the open-source community directly and get fixes to issues faster than more curated OSes like Ubuntu. I have access to more diagnostic information and tools that what Windows provides. And privacy and freedom isn't compromised like on MacOS. Also, it's gotten really good for games. It plays pretty much everything I've wanted to play, from Stellaris, Cyberpunk 2077, and Humankind. So, sometimes opinions need updates.
  • entropea 5y ago
    >Arch is not something for people that want to just use their devices. It's something for people who love to tinker. I've been running Arch (Endeavor w/KDE now) as a desktop for probably 7 years and I just use my device. I get updates that break small things in KDE, or give me major screen tearing in Firefox once in awhile, but nothing that "breaks so often". It's pretty good and solid in 2021...
• qudat 5y ago
  - OS: Arch Linux - Window Manager: Sway - Backups: rsync.net - Mail: migadu.com - Coding sr.ht - Private servers: kimsufi.com - Music: bandcamp.com - Headphones: Grado SR325 X - Camera: Fujuifilm X-T4 Ah the drew devault starter kit
  • dotancohen 5y ago
    That is a great list. And a reminder to backup.
  • alberth 5y ago
    For mail, I would really consider Fastmail (over Migadu). Fastmail has contributed a huge amount to the open source community, also include Calendar support (Migadu does not) and has a fantastic web interface (where Migadu is extremely lacking).
    • post_break 5y ago
      Fastmail is in australia though? Didn't they just get completely backdoored?
      • 28617056 5y ago
        Email is insecure by default. The best you can do is go with a provider that doesn’t sell your behavior to advertisers like Google does.
        • post_break 5y ago
          But if even 50% of the population uses gmail then they have your information anyways?
    • worble 5y ago
      Even though I have no expectation that my emails are 100% private, I'm still incredibly hesitent to trust any company operating out of Australia with their horrible stance towards encryption and backdoors (which is not Fastmails fault of course, it's a pretty horrible situation for them). I'm fairly sure that Migadu also supports caldav, although I don't think there's any UI for it on the web. I think there's pretty much an expectation that most people using Migadu are bringing their own clients rather than using the web one anyways.
• ajsharp 5y ago
  One of the biggest opportunities in technology right now is to re-run the Next/Apple playbook and create a new hardware/software technology company focused on developers. Good quality hardware married with a great OS / window manager. Most of the software we use to create software are electron apps, a thin layer of native code to run a bunch of javascript. The main notable exception is XCode, but the ecosystem of non-ios/apple developers is far larger. Wish someone would do this. I'd pre-order tomorrow.
  • rapsey 5y ago
    Insurpassable barrier to entry. Not a chance.
    • Jyaif 5y ago
      What are you talking about? Any large tech company could pull that off. The problem is those large companies are not interested in catering to a million developers, they are interested in catering to a billion people.
      • rapsey 5y ago
        Remember windows phone?
        • lotsofpulp 5y ago
          I do. I remember Microsoft stores too. They went 20% of the way and stopped, and decided that extracting rent from Office and Azure was all the work they wanted to do, rather than continue investing in hardware and in person support. Same with Google and their devices, except they did not even bother with in person support.
          • coldtea 5y ago
            >They went 20% of the way and stopped For how much more would you siphon money into basically empty stores, to see it as having gone "100%" of the way?
• Terretta 5y ago
  I'm confused. From his success list: I basically went back 5 or 10 years and replaced every "modern" technology solution. I pay now way more than I did with iCloud, but I am back in control. I am more productive. - Listening to Music takes 3 clicks and just a few seconds Wired headphones never run out of battery and have superior audio quality - I can take real photos wiht high quality instead of relying on ever newer iPhone models for thousands of dollars which will always have lesser quality than a mirrorless camera for the same price - I have fun again discovering bands and artists on Bandcamp instead of mind numbing listening to Apple Music playlists - Coding via neovim on a terminal and just being on my keyboard navigating not only tmux and co, but also my OS is way more productive and faster Which of these can I not do on a Mac?
  • rsync 5y ago
    "Listening to Music takes 3 clicks and just a few seconds Wired headphones never run out of battery and have superior audio quality ..." This item is the reason I am leaving the iphone and trying an unlocked/stock android device. My music collection is a directory tree that I have curated and organized since 1996. The correct way to deal with this is to move this directory tree onto my phone (either via network transfer or attaching a USB filesystem) and then browse those files with a music player app. Anyone familiar with iDevices knows that every piece of the simple, standard workflow I just described is totally impossible. Instead, you have to manually build playlists inside of itunes while "importing" your music (and storing two copies of it) and then transfer those playlists (one by one) to the idevice and ... it's just insane. It is a workflow built for people that impulse buy a track here and there ...
    • Terretta 5y ago
      > The correct way to deal with this is to move this directory tree onto my phone (either via network transfer or attaching a USB filesystem) and then browse those files with a music player app. Anyone familiar with iDevices knows that every piece of the simple, standard workflow I just described is totally impossible. On the contrary, any number of apps support precisely this. - https://readdle.com/documents https://readdle.com/documents (not just music) - https://www.everappz.com/evermusic https://www.everappz.com/evermusic - https://brushedtype.co/doppler/ https://brushedtype.co/doppler/ - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sony-music-center/id724406878 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sony-music-center/id724406878 (if you use Sony headphones) - http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ios.html http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ios.html - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mrmc-touch/id1062986407 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mrmc-touch/id1062986407 There's no point in listing all of them. Having ripped some 20,000 CD tracks a couple decades ago, I use several such apps. As a user of such apps, I'd argue with "correct" though, given Apple Match with iCloud One combo and last year's update supporting high resolution / lossless. Over time, I have come to use those apps less than Apple Match, which mirrors my rips using tracks from Apple's library where they have them, or uploads mine where they don't, giving me more seamless access across all devices, spoken access from Siri on HomePods, etc. Match was a debacle at launch, is now almost never wrong on even the most obscure tracks.
• yunohn 5y ago
  > I can take real photos with high quality instead of relying on ever newer iPhone models The author could’ve done this even within the Apple ecosystem. The vast majority of photographers use iPhones too, but manage their DSLR/mirrorless photos with iPhoto too.
• sequoia 5y ago
  I want to leave the apple ecosystem as well, and appreciate this post, but there’s an inherent limitation to “just switched” posts like this. To wit: they don’t capture the cost and benefit over time. Switching to Arch & rsync takes “just a month,” but then you upgrade something and drivers break, you have an issue on your remote machine you’re syncing to and have to debug it, your backups stop working and you urgently need to address the issue, etc etc. Either one of these can be showstopping issues. That said, Macs screw up on updates as well at times. The general point is that “just switched” narratives like this paint an incomplete picture because one big benefit of, say, iCloud photos is that I pay a monthly fee then I never have to think about it. Not so rsync.
  • beebeepka 5y ago
    Comparing two opposite extremes - Arch to Apple - has its merits but it's hardly useful. Justike this blog post I certainly didn't have to sacrifice much of anything by moving from Windows 8 (the best one) to Ubuntu and Manjaro. I've even moved old people to Ubuntu back in the gnome 2 days. Worked great
  • dotancohen 5y ago
    With Arch you might get breakages. If you're worried about that, then go with Kubuntu. Seriously, it has been ages since I've seen hardware compatibility issues with Kubuntu, maybe eight years or longer across literally dozens of install on my own and other peoples' hardware.
    • SamuelAdams 5y ago
      I’ve been running Debian on a laptop using rsync to back up my files. This has been my setup for at least three years. Not sure why OP thinks it breaks all that often.
  • christophilus 5y ago
    I've been running Fedora for the better part of a year. The switching costs for me were negligible. What I like about Fedora is that it is really stable while still being pretty bleeding edge. Vanilla Fedora (running unmodified Gnome) is really an excellent OS. So far, I haven't had any major issues. The biggest thing I missed was the Macbook trackpad. The Dell XPS's trackpad is janky by comparison. That said, I won't be confident in recommending this setup until I've been through another year or so of upgrade cycles.
• canjobear 5y ago
  > Around 10 years ago, during my studies, almost all of my CS colleagues had Windows laptops. A few installed Linux on it, but literally no one had a MacBook. I recall CS grad school 10 years ago as being a sea of Macbooks…
  • Jyaif 5y ago
    It depends on where you studied. In my CS class 11 years ago in France, MacBooks represented approximately 2% of the population.
    • mzkply 5y ago
      California, a sea of Macs, all people switching from laptops running Linux
    • yoz-y 5y ago
      When I studied CS 15-11 years ago in France, nobody had laptops in class. All practical work was done in a computer lab. I still find it weird to see a picture of a lecture hall and a sea of computers. What do people do with them? This aside, in the dorm Macs were maybe 10-20% with a healthy amount of mac hating.
  • arnon 5y ago
    Regional differences. This is not true in Europe and Asia.
• halo37253 5y ago
  The iOS ecosystem has always been crap. I love the device and how the UI keeps becoming more android like, but iCloud stinks. Google by far as a better cloud platform for a standard user. But for a business Sharepoint/Onedrive has always been the way to go. I personally never had a problem with Macbooks, and surprised he just didn't work in a VM. I do 90% of my daily work in a VM on my Macbook, either running Arch or Debian. Everything just works. But I can not stand with apple's choice of moving to ARM for a power user. My Next Machine will run windows as the base OS. I'll test out their Linux for Windows Subsystem, but most likely just boot up the same VMware VM's i've been using for a long time. Between Snapshots and backups to both my onsite server and my Personal Sharepoint, I never have an issue. Spotify for music though, it just works and easy to push music around my home.
  • zepto 5y ago
    > but iCloud stinks. Google by far as a better cloud platform for a standard user. In what way?
    • dmitriid 5y ago
      I can attest this for photos. Google Photos is a third-party app, and it syncs photos a few magnitudes faster than Apple Photos. I never know in which state Apple Photos are at any given moment: is it syncing? is it stuck? why?
      • basisword 5y ago
        Apple Photos manages syncing based on things like network connection and especially battery life. If your battery is below a certain level you have to manually resume syncing. That might be part of the issue.
  • arc-in-space 5y ago
    >the UI keeps becoming more android like Okay, I'll bite, because that's amusing(I find that interacting with anything Android is consistently a torture) and I don't use Apple devices so I have no idea what you could be thinking of. How is iOS stuff becoming more like Android, and how is it better than whatever it did before?
• djhworld 5y ago
  I'm half into the ecosystem, I don't own an iPhone but I've had various MacBooks over the years. Latest one is the M1 air and it's almost perfect. It never gets hot, it never gets noisy, performance is superb, battery life amazing. Really hoping a similar ARM based linux machine comes out that can beat it, but for the time being I'd find it difficult to switch away from my Air!
  • officeplant 5y ago
    Same except I got an M1 Mini. For all my hate of what apple does, I'm an ARM addict and I really love the new Mini. I really hope we eventually get full Linux support for Apple Silicon at some point just so I can play with it that way as well. I was looking forward to Qualcomm's ARM Dev kit for Windows, but it hasn't released yet outside of what seems to be some listings on chinese websites for bulk orders of 100+ units. It really sucks that my Pinebook Pro is still the best I can get as far as ARM linux laptops go that are easy to use and try different distros on.
    • ungamedplayer 5y ago
      What are your thoughts on the pinebook. I'm trying to decide if I get a pinebook or a framework next.
      • officeplant 5y ago
        It is totally worth $220. The screen is great, the build quality is acceptable for the price. All of this comes at the cost of the now ancient Rockchip SoC that struggles in a lot of instances. As a device for learning ARM linux on and doing tinkering it's great. It also has a few issues that are unsolvable without some redesigning on pine64's part. The main issue being heat from the SoC causing the charging circuit to shut off. Under a heavy load you can watch the battery go down while its plugged in. My battery is starting to die after 8 months (voltage drops enough to cause a hard shutoff around 60%). I'm not sure if the issues are related but I'm simply going to pull out the battery and connect the internal wiring for running purely from the wall bypassing the battery. Some argue that the 3A power inputs just aren't enough for the draw the pinebook pro can pull off especially if you start overclocking (2ghz on the big, 1.8ghz on the little cores is totally possible). Personally I left everything stock. As a daily driver I really can't recommend it unless you live in terminal and don't need to do a whole lot of web browsing. Video streaming (twitch/youtube) + Fast stream chatrooms bring that poor rockchip to its knees even at 480 to 720p. The Pinebook Pro gets a lot of love from the community but it is a very very niche device for a particular kind of enthusiast.
• emptyparadise 5y ago
  I always look at blog posts like this and I always end up a bit disappointed when people go completely in the other direction with i3 and the like. What if I want customization and pretty animations with sane defaults? Surely there has to be some middle ground between "here's your empty screen and a keyboard shortcut to open the terminal, good luck" and "this minor release will redesign the entire interface and break all your custom themes and scripts, good luck" when it comes to open source desktops? Still, I'm glad people are getting out of closed ecosystems.
  • jcfrei 5y ago
    I'm currently in the process of moving from Linux back to Windows running VMWare. For software development, I use a virtual xubuntu distribution. For browsing the web, listening to music, etc. it's all Windows. I just can't be bothered to fix broken drivers or wonky settings on Linux for stuff that should work out of the box. At the same time I still don't see an alternative for Linux as a development environment - so I hope with this new setup I get the best of both worlds.
    • emptyparadise 5y ago
      I've actually had good luck with Linux when it comes to drivers, but I just can't pull off a good desktop setup. Looking at those rock-solid Debian servers just wishing I could have the desktop experience of a 15 year old PowerBook to go with them...
    • genghizkhan 5y ago
      Why not try out WSL? I'm not a dev myself, but for the bit of coding and scripting I do from time to time WSL is pretty good.
      • The_Colonel 5y ago
        WSL2 is pretty bad in my experience. Networking is dark magic, filesystem access is fast only when working natively but GUI doesn't work on the linux side (without using X server which has glitches), there's no systemd, docker for windows does not work identically as native linux version ... In the end I just resigned and I'm using Linux in VirtualBox. Far from ideal but also much better than WSL2.
• artfulhippo 5y ago
  I love macOS and Linux. Even Windows is acceptable, especially now with WSL. IMO, if it runs emacs, who cares what the OS is? When it comes to hardware, Apple is a few years ahead, however. Battery life and screen technology are quality-of-life factors, especially for people who often work away from home and without an external monitor. That, and the accessories. Going from AirPods Pro to wired headphones would be a major inconvenience as I have an active lifestyle -- even my linux box supports bluetooth headphones, and it's nice to be able to get up from the computer without taking them off.
  • coldtea 5y ago
    >would be a major inconvenience as I have an active lifestyle Give it a decade or so...
  • hef19898 5y ago
    One of my biggest issues with modern day phone sis the lack of a 3.5 mm headphone jack. Wired headphones mean total device compatibility (true plug and play), no battery issues and less risk of loosing them somewhere. Also, they are cheaper at comparable audio quality (and that is all I care about with headphones).
    • abawany 5y ago
      They seem to be making a comeback, at least on the mid-range: the Pixel 3a/4a/5a I think had headphone jacks as does the Gigaset GS4.
  • dreamcompiler 5y ago
    There's no reason a computer or phone can't have both Bluetooth and a headphone jack. Mine do, and I use both.
• nobleach 5y ago
  I toy with the idea every once in awhile. I own a M1 Mac and I actually hate it for various reasons. I've been a mac fanboi (I'm probably an even bigger Linux fanboi) for many years as I feel like I gave me so many of the things I love about Linux/BSD... and it's flat out beautiful. But as many have stated. Over the years, it's ceased to match my workflow. I've always kept plenty of Linux machines around me, so for the past few years, I've been full time on Linux. I do miss getting my text messages on my laptop. I do miss transferring music with ease - but I have to be honest. Using iTunes/Music to transfer music to my iPhone has actually been pretty painful the past few years. When I try to drag and drop, for some odd reason, it just says, "nope". My issue is, the alternatives are just not as high quality. I looked at ditching my iPhone 12 for a Pixel 4 or a Samsung, and maybe getting the Samsung watch (which I hear can do blood pressure now?). But I've read so many bad reviews. Sadly, one of the biggest things that keeps me on Apple right now is iMessage. We have plenty of Apple products in the household, so I'd never ditch them totally.
  • jclardy 5y ago
    iMessage is the ultimate lock-in. Both sides of my family use iMessage, so anyone switching off iPhone becomes the black sheep by splitting off the family thread. And it sucks because it is wholly a political decision by Apple not to add android support. But besides that, I bought a Pixel 5a for testing of android apps. While the experience is majorly improved over my last android experience...it just feels wrong. Animations are not consistent across apps. Swipe actions sometimes follow your finger, sometimes they don't. I thought widgets would be better...but wow are they ugly out of the box. Yes I am aware you can customize everything, but I really don't want to spend hours figuring all that out when I can just have sane defaults. I feel like looking at screenshots you can say that android and iOS are very similar, but that leaves out the most important part of a touch only device - the interactions with content on screen.
    • shapefrog 5y ago
      > becomes the black sheep by splitting off the family thread Worth having a shitter phone just to have the feature of not being on the family thread.
• markstos 5y ago
  Sway user here. Agree that tiling and customization have helped my productivity.
  • droopyEyelids 5y ago
    If anyone is sticking with mac and wants a tiling window manager, https://ianyh.com/amethyst/ https://ianyh.com/amethyst/ is pretty decent
    • philwelch 5y ago
      I actually gave it a chance for a while, but in my experience it doesn't match up to i3, particularly on an ultrawide display. So I replaced it with VMWare Fusion running Regolith Linux. This actually turns out to be a decent setup. My Mac handles Zoom and a handful of other things that are fickle with hardware, and my VM is where my work happens.
• ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  Seems like largely an improvement... except the choice to get an old Android phone as a replacement for the iPhone. From a security standpoint, there's really no alternative to the iPhone. I loathe the Apple "ecosystem" and stay on the fringes of it as much as possible, not really investing in any Apple-specific apps or services, but until there's someone else in the market that isn't Google, there's really no other choice.
  • entropea 5y ago
    I have never had a security issue on my Pixel and receive monthly security updates.
• pixelgeek 5y ago
  It is odd when you agree with half an article. I think that anything to do with music and transferring files to your iPad or iPhone is an utter mess on the Mac. The entire iTunes project was an utter mess and breaking that up and fixing it is going to take a long time. I was also taken back by some of the new restrictions on the Application directory with Big Sur but it appears that they aren't as bad as I initially thought and mostly seem to apply to apps that the OS installs. I think it is great that the author outgrew his machine. They started out as a new developer and now they have brought their skills up to the point that they require a new OS to allow them to maximise their potential. That is an awesome story. Apple has had to ride a fine line between being a lifestyle device and a computer and I think that there are times when they totally mess it up and lock out things they don't need to. Other times they seem to get it right. Like a lot of people here I really wish Apple would stop trying to organize my music but I also realise that a large number of people younger than me don't even own music any more. The number of use cases for these devices is huge and it is natural that the hardware can't be everything to everyone. It used to be the case but so many more people use computers and use them for a wide variety of things that those days are far behind us.
  • bwanab 5y ago
    I don’t think it’s just people “younger than” you who don’t own any music anymore. Statistically, I’m pretty sure I’m older and I gave away my entire CD collection (as I had previously done with my LPs). I ripped the very few that I couldn’t find on Spotify. It just doesn’t make sense for me to keep all those plastic discs around when I can carry my entire collection and anything else I want to listen to around all the time. As for quality of sound, at my age I’m happy to hear at all.
    • pixelgeek 5y ago
      I started getting rid of most of my 'things' a long time ago as well. Physical representations of most items seem pointless if I can get a digital version. What I was trying to say is that while I might have a lot of ripped CDs and music on my devices it seems as if there is a growing number of people that just subscribe to services and forgo owning any music at all
• gentle 5y ago
  I went through this process a few years ago when Apple removed the iPhone headphone jack and I'll probably never go back. The thing that cemented that for me recently was how Apple now insists on notarization for all applications, even command line applications. My current company uses old versions of lots of open source applications, and MacOS constantly freaks out about them. Time to move to Linux full time.
• abc_lisper 5y ago
  The article is light on criticism about Apple. Usually what happens to these people is they go out all guns blazing, spend a lot of time, figure how to do stuff the hard way, feel temporarily in control and then face death by a thousand cuts or decreased productivity. It is the case with 90% of the users. For most people, computer is a means to an end, which Apple understands spectacularly well. It gives you 5-star hotel like experience with its products. Is everything perfect? No. Does it make mistakes? Yes. There is no progress without mistakes, unless you allow many many years for ideation. Apple strikes this balance spectacularly well, they are mostly at the forefront of tech, meanwhile giving users a fantastic experience. It is Ritz Carlton of computers, you stay there, do your business, expect mostly everything to work like a well oiled machine, and you go home without sweat after finishing your work. To write 3 or 4 subjective opinions about Apple and dismissing it tells more about the author than Apple IMO.
  • izacus 5y ago
    Or you know, most people just click on the "Chrome" icon on Windows, see it looks the same as on macOS and happily carry on. The "everything is a web/Electron app" trend has pretty much ensured that your "productivity" effect is pretty much only in your head now.
    • foxpurple 5y ago
      macOS still offers benefits. If you have an iPhone, everything is synced up for you so your reminders set on your Mac will ping you on your phone. You get the anti loss/theft features of find my, the insanely efficient M1 chip and a load of other things.
  • jay_kyburz 5y ago
    Haha, I think that's a great analogy. I would never stay at a Ritz Carlton and pay $1000 a night when I could stay at the motel down the road for $100. I'm not waited on hand and foot, I have to do everything myself, but its done the way I like it, and I've saved myslef $900 as well.
    • 5y ago
• bonaldi 5y ago
  Apple Photos is no Aperture, but the lack of an alternative listed for Linux is glaring. What’s he managing all these RAWs he’s shooting with?
  • basisword 5y ago
    Darktable? It gets posted on HN frequently and seems like a lightroom competitor.
• serverholic 5y ago
  How come we always see articles like this about Apple and not Google? Why do nerds seem to have a hate boner against Apple but not the advertising company that is trying to invade every aspect of your private life and sell your info to the highest bidder? The android users at my day job are extremely vocal about hating Apple, yet the people using Apple devices mostly mind their own business. Perhaps it's an ego thing? Like maybe they can't afford Apple devices for their whole family so they buy Android and hate on Apple instead.
• monkeyfacebag 5y ago
  I’m actually joining the Apple ecosystem from Android/Windows for similar reasons. In particular, I wanted to use Logic instead of paying huge sums for new versions of Ableton; I wanted to use Pixelmator Pro instead of paying for Adobe subscription (although Affinity Photo is also available on windows); I wanted to use Time Machine instead of Google Drive; I especially wanted my passwords stored on my computer instead of locked behind my Google account at passwords.google.com (I was locked out of my Google account for a week once and it was temporarily life-ruining); and finally, I was so tired of trying to keep up with endless UI changes in Windows and Android. I’m not saying these were good reasons, but they were my reasons. One person’s trash is another person’s treasure I guess.
  • tomc1985 5y ago
    Google's ecosystem != Windows ecosystem. There's FLStudio (or Bitwig, or Reaper) to match Apple's Logic, 1Password (or Bitlocker from what I hear) to match Google's passwords.google.com, and Backblaze+others to match Time Machine Sure 'switching to apple' is a choice, but only one of many. Personally I am tired of using tech designed for and by managers and SWE's gunning for promotion and not personal empowerment or passion for personal computing Besides, everyone needs to ditch Chrome. Firefox could use the love
    • monkeyfacebag 5y ago
      Of course I agree with your point that there are many options when it comes to switching. I tried, but clearly failed, to imply this very point. For me, after consideration of my requirements and tolerances, Apple seemed like the best fit, but I wouldn’t suggest that it has any kind of broader implication for the state of various software ecosystems. Suffice to say I think all of the software in your list is pretty great and I chose what I chose for reasons that are wholly mine!
    • phire 5y ago
      There is no windows for phones (anymore). If you aren't using an apple phone, you are pretty much forced to use google's android (or one of the various linux phones with little financial backing) Windows/Android can be considered a natural pair, Microsoft seem to think so. Personally use Linux/Android pair, and I've been vaguely considering switching to an iphone to avoid Google.
• theandrewbailey 5y ago
  > Which is fine, because 50% of the time I am als an everyday user. pacman -S hunspell
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• ribit 5y ago
  I found this bit very interesting > I realised that my life while using Apple products is > controlled by Product Managers/Owners who want to get a > raise, rather than by technology people who share the same > passion as me Mainly because I feel exactly the opposite. I don’t find Windows, Linux or x86 technologically exiting anymore.Apple makes (IMO of course) the most technologically exciting CPUs, their GPUs are a breath of fresh air, I love their approach to UI, APIs and OS security.
  • Invictus0 5y ago
    What kind of ridiculous metric is "technologically exciting"? CPU/GPU speed is really just a cat and mouse game--soon enough an even crappier suite of Electron apps will make the M1 feel slow. Apple's UI approach is just terrible lately [0][1], and the OS security comment must be a joke in light of the CSAM scanning debacle--are you living under a rock? [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ios-15-how-to-move-safari-address-bar-to-the-top.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ios-15-how-to-move-safari-ad... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27559832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27559832
    • oreilles 5y ago
      Placing the url at the bottom is brilliant UI wise considering the height of the average smartphone nowadays. And anyway they made this an option for those who wouldn't like it. The “mess" that was discussed in your second link (the hovering URL bar) was only present in beta version and has been removed from the release. Finally, CSAM scanning has nothing to do with OS security, but with privacy.
      • blacksmith_tb 5y ago
        Sure is - and Firefox has done that (while still allowing you to put it at the top if that's what you prefer) for several versions now.
      • babypuncher 5y ago
        I did not realize how much I needed this change in my mobile browser until I installed iOS 15 yesterday. I already cannot fathom how we dealt with the URL bar at the top of these big phones for so long. It's been a long time since a major UI change in some popular software actually made me happy, let alone this ecstatic. I'm usually one to complain about unnecessary change (like Firefox's recent UI refresh)
• codazoda 5y ago
  I'm the weird dude that uses a Mac and a Pixel phone. I'm a dev so I wanted the flexibility of being able to code for my phone without spending $99 a year. That's why I switched from iPhone to Android half a dozen years ago. It turns out that I just write web apps for my phone anyway. So, I'm thinking about switching back to iPhone. Maybe I just need a change every few years.
• advael 5y ago
  Some things never change. Talk about switching OSes and the entire comment thread becomes about dancing around calling people wrong about their aesthetic UX preferences I think if anything, this post illustrates that no matter how many people you pay to do it, there's no "objectively better" workflow for everyone, and preferences will always be individual When I try to convince people to use *nix OSes or FOSS tools generally, my one and only argument is the value of having control, or, perhaps more saliently, not being controlled by the company that makes your tools. If that doesn't persuade you, then just use whatever you like best. Your preferences are your own, and no amount of supposed expertise or practiced snobbishness can make your preferences override mine, or vice versa.
  • whartung 5y ago
    That's all well and good and noble. But I don't feel controlled by Apple. I have Macs, iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple TV. The whole kit. I am "invested". That said, I've never turned iCloud on, all my photos are on my phone or my computer, all my iTunes music is downloaded to my machine, free to take with me. (I also still buy physical CDs.) I don't sync anything. The only place this isn't true is the Apple TV videos I've bought. Don't know where they are, but I don't really care to be honest. If Apple didn't know about my rental habits, Blockbuster would. What difference does it make. I have enough dusty DVDs in my drawer that I don't think I'd miss if they suddenly vanished, I'm not that tied to the content I've purchased on Apple either. I know what I'm getting in to when I do it, and it's OK with me. The other aspect would be the apps I've got from the App Store. If I were move off of iOS those wouldn't be coming with me anyway, so...no drama there. And why do I not use iCloud? Not because of any big brother eyeball on me. I don't use it the same reason I don't use a Smart TV, or a "smart home", or anything else. It's just one more thing designed to make my life easier that simply won't. As soon as it messes up (and it WILL mess up, catastrophically, and at the worst time. Everyone has stories), whatever value its added will be washed away. As I like to say, I love programming, but I hate computers. I hate messing with them, configuring them, tweaking them, googling for arcane stuff. I never want to hear the word "driver" ever again if I can avoid it. My Macs and Apple stuff, that I use, pretty much "just works". I keep my profile as thin and light as possible. The printer works, on all my machines and devices! Hallelujah! Air Drop works! I can serve videos from my Mac to the my Apple TV. +1! So, whatever control Apple has over me, I think the boot on my neck might instead just be a flip flop, and I can get up whenever I want.
• axiosgunnar 5y ago
  > doesn't do video editing > doesn't do photoshop > doesn't create music > doesn't use specialized domain specific software such as CAD etc > doesn't play modern games > doesn‘t need to interact with people using ms office files ok sure, you can entirely rely on linux if you want to code in the terminal, play some mp3s and store some jpgs. but the presented use cases exclude vast groups of people
• achenatx 5y ago
  I use a mac because mac os X is much more stable, doesnt have a registry, has a *nix shell, doesnt seem to accumulate random stuff over time that slows the computer down to a crawl, and time machine is amazing. I have used it multiple times to immediately get up and running (once after my mac was stolen, once when I upgraded, once when my mac lcd died when I dropped it). Im still using a 2015 macbook pro because I want my hdmi port and usb ports. I have a backup in case this one dies. Over time the computer has not slowed down at all. I use android because the iphone system does weird things that I cant be bothered to figure out. For example we have icloud turned off everywhere, but icloud still manages to fill up and send messages. The iphone periodically requires authentication with a device I dont have on me (e.g. an ios device that I dont have in my possession). Text messages still get echoed to multiple devices meaning my kids and wife see each others' texts. It is also still missing features that I need. The dialer still cant use T9. The calendar cant change the default snooze for 2 minutes before an event. It also wont keep reminding you if you dont kill the snooze. My home desktop uses windows because it runs blue iris which manages my security cameras.
  • ggpsv 5y ago
    I’m also running a 2015 mbp as my personal computer. Curious, which macOS version are you running?
    • desertraven 5y ago
      Not OP. I’m running a 2015 MacBook Pro with Catalina. Going strong.
• erikbye 5y ago
  I think the only good thing about the Apple ecosystem is making money off it. Much easier to make a living selling apps on the app store than the play store.
  • danlugo92 5y ago
    Much easier to go poof as well.
• vinceguidry 5y ago
  > The last step... Cute idea.
• jay_kyburz 5y ago
  Come on, Nobody has raised the biggest most annoying Apple lock in. They Keyboard Shortcuts. It has taken me years to retrain my muscle memory.
  • sbuk 5y ago
    You do realise that the keyboard shortcuts existed before Windows existed? Microsoft introduced ctrl+c/v/x, basing it on cmd-c/v/x in Windows 3.0...
    • jay_kyburz 5y ago
      I was attempting to humorously point out that after 10 years Apple shortcuts, it was very difficult to relearn how to type. Not just Copy/Paste, but Home/End and Page Up/Down, selecting lines and moving things around. They are all different in Windows Linux land. I should have learnt Vi. (And for the record, I like Apples better, and tried to emulate them on Windows for a while but It was never quite right)
• asciimov 5y ago
  Most of these bullet points could still be done on a Mac. You don't need special permission, or a hacked computer, to do the things the non-apple way. I moved to Linux 7 years ago from MacOS (and windows before that). As I get older, my patience wanes for dealing with the, half-baked house-of-cards teetering on collapse, Linux ecosystem. I just want something that works better, and took a different direction than the modern versions of Windows or MacOS.
• Borlands 5y ago
  Very personal opinion here: Apple innovated as hell, pure lab of goodness and years and years ahead of any other OS. Sad reality is that they are now a 100 billion mega megacorp, user is second in the money dance. I don’t see them as innovative, freedom (not as in free beer) means a lot and they don’t contribute to it at all, if anything even more closed ecossystem - long gone the days of OpenDarwin. Most people I know switched back to Windows for better drivers support. UX is still second to none in Apple, but at what cost? In the end, you want to press a button to turn on the system and get things done. I think there’s more than just Apple nowadays - but unique strengths in different contexts for sure
• black_13 5y ago
  Its impossible to do gnu toolchain devel on ios. I got tired of trying to sign the gdb debugger.
• c54 5y ago
  I respect this but the X1 Carbon's keyboard is bad, and so is its trackpad. Until something like this[0] project takes off, this is just a non-starter for me. Windows at least has OK trackpad support, and now with WSL and whatnot, the surface pro laptops are maybe a feasible option, but Windows ironically has the absolute worst window management of the 3. And of course Apple is still a moving target. I'm not going back to a x86 toaster of a laptop with 5 hrs of battery life, when i can have one which stays cool for 11. Signs point to them ditching the touchbar too. [0] https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-macbook-pro-may-2020-update/ https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-m... [1] Disclosures / context: - I have an X1 carbon for work - I vastly prefer my M1 Macbook Pro - I miss i3wm, i used to run it on laptop and desktop in college, on Arch.
  • royal_ts 5y ago
    In which world is MacOS window management good? It's comically bad. The splittscreen feature alone is a bad joke
    • tzamora 5y ago
      I use Hyperdock https://bahoom.com/hyperdock https://bahoom.com/hyperdock for macOS windows splitscreen and other features that makes the experience very very good and more similiar to windowsOS
      • odux 5y ago
        Does this work on BigSur? I have used it for years but have not been able to make it work after I upgraded to BigSur.
    • wy35 5y ago
      Agree, stock MacOS window management is really annoying. I’ve been using Rectangle to do split screen and maximizing windows, and I never had a problem since.
    • c54 5y ago
      Agreed actually, I don't use the 'spaces' feature other than for fullscreen PDF reading. For me, BetterTouchTool is a godsend though, i can use the trackpad to 'grab' and 'resize' windows without hunting for the little <-> thing that's for some reason 0.5 pixels wide :D. BTT implements all of Windows' snappy edges and corners and whatnot. I use Raycast (https://www.raycast.com/ https://www.raycast.com/) as a cmd+space replacement and it's great and quick too MacOS is strangely more customizable than a lot of things
• firecall 5y ago
  "I basically went back 5 or 10 years and replaced every "modern" technology solution. I pay now way more than I did with iCloud, but I am back in control. I am more productive." But how are you are more productive? In what ways did the revised toolset improve productive output? What are you producing and how do these tools compare to each other? To me, the 'more productive' argument is a bit of strawman. Totally cool to change toolsets and all though :-)
• pdimitar 5y ago
  This article could have sparked sympathy in me since I am gradually and slowly making my way to a full Linux dev workflow on a laptop with 2TB NVMe SSD, 32GB and a pretty good CPU (Ryzen 5500U) but... the kinda sorta ideological language the author used in the article is really unfortunate. (And believe me, it's a huge cognitive dissonance to convince yourself out of using the iMac Pro as much as you can...) Look, if it doesn't work for you anymore, alright. Move to Linux. Most of us the devs will eventually move to it anyway I think, since Apple just doesn't care about dev ergonomics -- especially with scanning each binary you run; try working under Linux for a week and you'll say to yourself "gosh, computers can be FAST!" -- but truthfully, many employers don't care about our ergonomics as well and they are OK with the lost productivity of waiting for tools to just... run, you know. I agree Apple Music is a train wreck though, that's a fact. In any case, I wish people learned to just make two small lists with pros and cons and be done with it. Using language like the quote in the start: > I realised that my life while using Apple products is controlled by Product Managers/Owners who want to get a raise, rather than by technology people who share the same passion as me. And I wanted to change that. ...is true to an extent but it gives you exactly zero things that are actually and visibly wrong. (Obviously this is an exaggeration, e.g. they mention subscription model vs. paying for stuff once which is valid, but my overall point is about things that are technical, not business-level.) So, good for him I suppose but the article could have been written in a much more compelling and factual manner.
  • Klonoar 5y ago
    >especially with scanning each binary you run You do realize you can disable a healthy chunk of this stuff, right? A dev might not want it, but end users (non-technical, as much as this term annoys me) benefit from it. Disable SIP (recovery mode dance) and disable GateKeeper (spctl) and you're off to a decent start. They even document it, it's not hidden: https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/10.2/index.html?localePath=en.lproj#/dev9b7736b0e https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/10.2/index.html?localePath=...
    • pdimitar 5y ago
      Oh yeah, I am aware. But I don't buy a Mac to tinker with it. The huge price mark-up is for the "it just works" part in the package. Plus I am very scared when it comes to Mac security. I am pretty sure that to this day their mitigation strategy is "almost nobody is writing viruses for Mac anyway". :D I will not risk disabling SIP especially with programs like Chrome on my Mac. The sad part is that they _can_ make it work better and be faster but they don't want to. That's why in a few years time my iMac Pro is simply going to be the most expensive day-to-day desktop machine in a 1km radius and I'll use a cheap Ryzen laptop (or expensive Threadripper workstation) for actual work.
• cepher 5y ago
  I use linux+i3 at work, but personally have a mac. The main thing stopping me from ditching the mac is how convenient it is to swap files/photos between the iphone and mac, whether it’s through icloud or airdrop. Perhaps a nice solution exists for transferring files between iphone and linux, but I haven’t found one.
• musicale 5y ago
  > I realised that my life while using Apple products is controlled by Product Managers/Owners who want to get a raise, rather than by technology people who share the same passion as me. And I wanted to change that. There is some truth to Apple's engineering being directed by product managers who want raises - which (given that Apple is a large company) would generally require directing it toward Apple's bottom line and promoting Apple's goods and services. At the same time there are a number of smart people at Apple, in both product management and engineering, who work there in order to advance good design, ease of use, reliability, privacy, and the development of computing technology that benefits and empowers its users - and not just the company that sells it. Moreover, pretty much everyone at Apple knows that you don't create transformative products by bean counting and risk aversion. But if you want something built by and for a community of technical enthusiasts, hobbyists, researchers, and hackers/tinkerers, open source software and disaggregated systems may be a superior ecosystem for you, and that's a good thing because a vibrant enthusiast and free/open software and hardware community provides many benefits to the world.
• gigel82 5y ago
  Can't we all just get along !? :) FWIW, I've used iPhones for 11 years, I've had a bunch of iPads for media use on-the-go and kids, and I even have a macbook pro that my employer provided (a very nice $3,000 monitor riser) But most of my home machines are Windows 10. I've lived in the MS ecosystem since the DOS 3 era and that's where I feel most at home. Using macOS is a frustrating experience for me, it feels like a toy environment (though I'm sure some folks feel the same about Windows if they've grown up in the mac world). That said, I've been toying with Linux every now and then; I've got a couple of Raspberry Pis in the house that I self-manage (for things like pi-hole, nas, vpn tunnel, etc.), I've been using WSL2 and Docker on my PCs and even have an older laptop running Arch that I sometimes poke at. I regret not getting more serious into Linux before; it's difficult to switch now, but I don't like where MS is taking Windows (funneling everyone into their Bing / ADs with Edge being pushed aggressively and search / news being shoved more and more deeply into the OS) so I'll have to begrudgingly leave my place of comfort in search of lost freedom.
  • pdimitar 5y ago
    I am super happy with Manjaro. I only briefly tried Arch and when I realized I have to manually assemble everything I expect from an everyday OS I was just "NOPE!" and went to Manjaro. Very happy user. Even their installer is actually a live environment where you can do whatever you like, and you also have the "Install Manjaro" button on your desktop. A ready and working desktop environment for you to do stuff in while the OS is installing. A rarely well-polished Linux experience. I agree macOS feels like a toy. I use it full time for 2.5 years now and I still can't shake this feeling. Both on Windows (ever since 98 and all the way to 10) and several Linux GUI flavours I used, I could make keybinds for literally anything and everything and basically optimize my machine for super productivity. With macOS that's either not easy or requires buying several software packages to do.
• utopcell 5y ago
  First thought after finishing the article: "Hmm, so there's more of us out there".
• csomar 5y ago
  I get where the OP is coming from. A bit more than a year ago, I also made the move to Linux (Arch/Sway). Granted, it was a challenge to set everything up, especially when you are used to everything "working" from the get-go. But I see the value now. I also think that Arch/Sway/Wayland is stable enough to be usable for serious work. In fact, I don't think I can get back to macOS anytime soon. Every time I use Windows/mac I feel that the operating system is getting on the way. But there is a small price to pay: Custom configuration. My setup consists of Sway, Vivaldi, Skype, and Alacritty (tmux). I have three screens (and found Linux to be more stable in supporting that than macOS); two are terminals/tmux and one is the browser. I have a small program launcher (dmenu) and a custom clipboard logger. That's all there is to my setup. Everything else is noise. Once you get used to that, you can't go back. I also have Skype, OpenSnitch, Eaton Power management, Docker (with a Bitcoin node and bunch of other ), around 90-100 open tabs in Vivaldi, encrypted hard-drive, automatic backups to a NAS/mounted volumes, and multiple tmux sessions open. I only restart my PC for updates, and it has been constantly running for close to a year now. I don't remember ever coming to bug that requires a restart. I had some issues with browsers before, but I can kill them and start again. The environment is so lag-free that it's ridiculous. I switch tabs, programs, terminals, sessions, etc... with a 0 human-noticeable lag. That's impossible to achieve in macOS or Windows. (at least in Windows with the same machine).
  • jadbox 5y ago
    Sway and i3 are absolutely spectacular tools. If Sway just added a Start menu and a settings UI panel for usability, I would advise anyone to use it over any other desktop manager. It would be awesome if someone created something like Sway for Windows (I've tried all the options out there, PowerToys Tiles comes close).
    • csomar 5y ago
      I agree but that risks bloating Sway. There are many options for a start menu (dmenu for example) and a settings panel is not a possibility since the configuration is too sophisticated to be simplified in an interface. If you do really need a settings menu, you can install the Gnome one and it works for the most part.
• mtc010170 5y ago
  I share some of the author's viewpoints and am similarly disheartened by some of the decisions Apple has made over the last several years. That said, there's a trope displayed in this post that's getting especially old to me on HN, and that's the: "POs/PMs ruin everything (or are useless), and all they care about is getting a raise or promotion.. not the technology (or the users, or the product)." I find the tribalism baked into this oft-repeated viewpoint super annoying. And I believe the author, and others parroting these ideas.. are projecting a viewpoint all over the place without much substance. And I think it's actually harmful to organizations and teams working effectively together. So maybe we should look a little deeper and leave the engineers-are-better-than-everyone-else bigotry out of it.
  • BrightGlow 5y ago
    The other HN Linux user trope here is the (sadly predictable) fetishization of tiling window managers. I used these for years and they're really not that great. If you ask me these exhibit the exact same problem the author is trying to get away from. There are dozens and dozens of them, none of them are really that interesting or novel, so they change around the keybinds and come up with weird and obscure features just to try to stand out from the crowd. It's really a mess. And plus, basically all of them are broken when it comes to a mouse-driven workflow. I find them to be completely unusable for doing anything besides programming and typing documents.
• daemonhunter 5y ago
  My problem with macOS is that I bought a mac expecting free OS updates. However since my macbook is my desktop killer, I have multiple external monitors connected with USBC to HDMI adapters. Everything I have seen since Big Sur indicates external monitors are iffy in big sur. I'm sorry, I'm not wrecking my environment because apple hasnt seen fit to fix external monitors in over a year.
  • Mister_Snuggles 5y ago
    I know that M1-based Macs can only support one external monitor, but Intel-based ones can support at least two. I'm able to run two external monitors, plus the internal display, on my work 2017 15" MBP and my personal 2017 13" MBP. The 13" MBP is running Big Sur, but work hasn't approved that for the 15" one yet. Big Sur has given me no issues with the multi-monitor setup.
• cnst 5y ago
  > The demise of Aperture, iPhoto, good keyboards and the introduction of the touch bar were just a few signs that product owners were in charge who rather wanted a raise by trying something "new" instead of technical owners who wanted to help creative people getting work done. This is exactly how I feel. Way too much software is being developed in the Resume Driven Development these days. Touch Bar is a prime example of this. It solves a nonexisting problem in an imperfect way. It's a mere copycat from Optimus Keyboard, except that in Optimus each individual key was still a physical key. The same goes for the vast majority of the web 2.0 front end frameworks, which reduce user experience, but add to the resume of people who implement all of that nonsense. The new versions of Slashdot and Reddit are prime examples — slower, less usable and accessible, but, hey, all the newest frameworks and buzzwords!
• ElijahLynn 5y ago
  ARCH LINUX FTW!!! Best distro evah!!! (because of the AUR)
• softwarebeware 5y ago
  I am quite sympathetic to the author’s viewpoint and have quite a few behaviors that are similar. I share files to my friends from my own server at home via aft. But I don’t know if I fully buy the argument here. Mac OS is a scriptable environment and nothing even requires you to have an iCloud account or use all the Apple ecosystem stuff on a MacBook. My work laptop is a MacBook and I still use only open source stuff on it, which I script for greater productivity, and it feels very efficient.
• freetime2 5y ago
  I switched from a MacBook Pro to a Linux desktop a couple years ago - not for philosophical reasons, but just because I felt like at the time the performance per dollar spent was much better if I built my own machine with an AMD CPU. Switching was really no big deal - there are plenty of good alternatives out there to Apple apps, and Apple also has browser-based versions of a lot of their iCloud apps if you need to access files or Photos from a Linux PC. And I have continued to use other Apple devices in my home without any real issues. Now with the success Apple has had with the M1 chips, and how they seem to be fixing their keyboard issues, I would definitely consider buying a MacBook Pro if the new models look compelling. I guess my point here is that being fully committed to the "Apple Ecosystem" isn’t as big a deal as some people make it out to be. You don’t have to be all-in or all-out on Apple. It’s something to consider when making a purchasing decision, but at the end of the day you should just buy the thing that works best for your needs and budget, regardless of who makes it.
  • throwoutway 5y ago
    I bought one of the new “fixed” keyboards and have a stuck key, just barely past warranty. Apple quoted me 400-500 to fix it They definitely have not “fixed” the keyboard.
• tuananh 5y ago
  i'm leaving the apple ecosystem too but it's because: - development on linux is superior. docker works faster. the number of packages available on linux. for devops tooling cli, linux is still first class citizen, bit higher than macos. - tiling windows manager is hella better than those available on macos (yabai, amethyst, etc..) - the hardware is cheaper, and even more powerful (for the same price). -
• bacan 5y ago
  I use Linux for all my server environments, but it just cannot compare to MacOS for Desktop use. The app ecosystem is severely lacking. Linux doesn't even have a decent modern email app. The best option there is Thunderbird, which is quite good but not really on-par with the offerings on Mac. Apps like Sparrow, Mimestream, Spark etc have no Linux equivalent. Mimestream is my choice due to its deep Gmail integration. And this is just email.
  • torstenvl 5y ago
    I like Mailspring on macOS, and it's available for Linux (electron app). Have you tried it?
  • xedrac 5y ago
    Hard disagree. For me, Linux is easily twice as productive as MacOS. I think it's more about what you're used to.
• pram 5y ago
  The point about Bandcamp is frankly baffling. I love the website and I’ve spent too much money there on vinyls, but their library is not a replacement for a streaming service. Not even close. I’ve seen very few releases on Bandcamp that weren’t already present in Apple Music/Spotify/Tidal etc.
• katabasis 5y ago
  This person uses a Fuji digital camera, but they don't mention what software they intend to use for photo editing. I shoot with the same camera and do a lot of hobby photography; one of the things that keeps me from seriously considering Linux for personal use is the lack of Lightroom/Capture 1 for editing photos. Are any of the Linux apps (Darktable, etc) reasonably intuitive/comparable in terms of features now?
  • hatsunearu 5y ago
    darkroom is kinda janky as OSS software tends to be, but the amount of control and the feature set is incredible. Nothing on the market comes close to it.
• linuxhansl 5y ago
  As a Linux user for the past 20 years or so I agree 100%. The first few years it was actually some work - compiled my own custom kernels, installed a lot of extra software I needed from source. But over the years that became less and less necessary. Kernels just work, all software I need is already packaged. These days I just install Fedora (in my case, I assume Arch, Ubuntu, etc would have the same results) on my Desktops/Laptops and it just works. Now, for work I still happily use a MacBook, but that Laptop is not mine anyway; I am aware and do not mind that my employer and Apple control it for me. Similarly my private phone is an unlocked Pixel and my workphone is an iPhone.
• jhatemyjob 5y ago
  ugh. these threads pop up every month. OP didnt even leave the apple ecosystem, he still has an iPhone
• nbzso 5y ago
  This resonates deeply with what I see and feel about Apple. If you check my posts here I started being vocal about my personal Apple problems, before this I happily browsed here on HN (2008) and did not express my thoughts, mainly because here I have learned so much and witnessed startups becoming well established businesses. But something clicked after Mac Pro was released, a computer delayed for so long, that to solve my business problems I had to build several Hackintoshes. I hoped that this time Apple will be focused on professional audience, without any tricks but no. Wheels and 1000 buck monitor stands? WTF. And the pricing. OMG. Clearly this was a message: You wanted professional computer, you will pay the premium to stay in the Ecosystem. Fast forward to 2021. CSAM on the macOS, but trust us we will make it better? No way Apple. No f-ng way. This is my property, my data is my property. I don't care what shenanigans your lawyers are buried in the EULA, and what is "publicly responsible thing". You create user technology. Users have full responsibility how they will use it by law. Can you imagine your kitchen knife to check what meat you trying to cut with it? Because this will be the logical "tech" direction. Let's check you washing machines for illegal content. What about your Apple Car? What about your iOS security? Pegasus/NSO, what about big bounties for security researchers, richest company of the world did not have enough to invest in effective Red Teams? GTFO. So this was the "final straw" for me. Now my company runs ARCH on old Apple hardware and all the money that I have saved to participate in Apple's Arm transition will go towards solutions with maximum professional control and privacy. Instead of Mac Pro I plan to have this thing: https://bit.ly/3zxlkBS https://bit.ly/3zxlkBS. Instead of buying Apple's iSpy devices I will run old Pixel with Graphene OS or dumb flip phone. There are a lot of tech savvy pros that don't care. I know. They have not lived in Apple land and still thinking that "easy way" is the right way. That the ecosystem gives more than it takes away. That may be if they participate in this monopoly they will find a small or big business success. Apple has you, by the balls. UX from hell painted with good intentions and lack of responsibility. I on other hand will never run my data on something that is not FOSS. And will invest my money in adequate hardware solutions. And when time comes to give some "consumer" advice I will be honest to my customers and friends. A small contribution, previously reserved for Apple hardware and software. Not anymore.:)
• TheRealNGenius 5y ago
  Lots of spelling errors in there, very distracting
• rswail 5y ago
  So I moved from the Linux world to the Apple world about 5 years ago when my work computer became a Mac Mini. My phone has been an iPhone since 3GS. Just looking at the apps I use on my mac, the only "Apple" apps are Messages (along with a bunch of others like Zoom and LINE and Telegram and Skype and Whatsapp for different groups/work) and Photos. I use Office 365 for Mac and OneDrive because it has a free 1TB as part of the sub. I was backing up using Time Machine to an SMB box running Ubuntu, but Time Machine with APFS over SMB is painfully slow and unreliable. I went and bought Arq and it replaced my back up needs. If/When I need to bring up a new machine, I'll use Apple's stuff to do that. I've also got the following: * Macports: Has all of the OSS/CLI tools, libraries etc. Better than homebrew because it doesn't do stupid tricks with /usr/local and root privileges and works with the Apple frameworks cleanly * Office 365: Needed for work purposes, I use OneDrive with Arq as a remote backup location. * Firefox: Never seen the need to use any other browser * Thunderbird: Happy enough as a mail client, use fastmail as my mail server. * iTerm2: Awesome terminal that integrates with tmux and other stuff MacOS free utilities I use: * Karabiner-Elements: Allows me to map my EU ISO WASD keyboard * Rectangle: Gives me keyboard window placement/sizing * Stats: Menu bar widgets for CPU/Network etc Along the way I've bought various MacOS utilities: * Pathfinder: Replacement for Finder that has more features * Bartender: Keeps my menu bar clean of unnecessary widgets unless they are doing something "interesting" * Dash: Awesome documentation tool
• vkaku 5y ago
  We could all use posts like this: Leaving the Insert Big Tech ecosystem behind The deal is that capital is very cheap for Insert Big Tech and the cost of customer acquisition is so easy. So at some point, the economies of scale and subsequent monetization can only be reversed by intentionally moving to smaller providers or making informed choices on supporting other businesses. IMO - This is not a convenience factor for most people, but for those willing to embrace it, it will open up your way - and compensate many software companies very well.
• weystrom 5y ago
  I've tried to switch to Linux multiple times. Something is always broken. Primary example is hidpi support. My laptop has a 1440p screen and I use a 1080p external one. And then sometimes I disconnect it and go into a meeting room or something to work without an external display. I set 200% scaling for laptop screen when I'm at the desk and 150% when I'm out and about. Simple usecase, but I've never managed to make it work properly and consistently. It's been like that for the last 3 years. I just keep coming back to Windows where it works perfectly. Wayland keeps getting better, but some important apps don't support it yet. For example there IS a build of VSCode that works on Wayland, but it freezes up if you move the window between displays with scaling on. And then there is KDE wayland session, that still loves to crash if you pull out the second screen DP cable "wrong". Linux is not there yet, and honestly, I'm not sure if it will ever be. It might me destined to forever play catch-up with the "big-tech" OSes. On top of that, how do you even beat the level of vertical integration that Apple has with M1 chips and MacOS?
  • Dah00n 5y ago
    This would be more relevant if HN wasn't getting posts about the same problem with Apple laptops over and over again. In my opinion it is broken in Linux but works better than on Macs.
• 8fingerlouie 5y ago
  I used Linux from 93 until around 2000, and while i'm aware that the state of the Linux Desktop is completely different today, and as a stand alone product may even compete with Windows/MacOS, the Apple ecosystem is something that is not yet beaten on Linux. People may think it is, but that's mostly because they were never "all in" on the Apple ecosystem. Copy / Paste across devices, handoff of documents, synchronization of files that actually works and won't get stuck for weeks updating a file. As for iCloud, one thing that Google/Microsoft/etc don't get is family sharing. We share a 2TB iCloud plan across the family, and while the plan is tied to my credit card, the data is not "mine". If i die tomorrow my credit card dies with me, and presumably so does my iCloud subscription, but all my family needs to do is start paying for another plan, and their data "magically" transfers from my icloud subscription to theirs. The Apple ecosystem is not without flaws though. Personally i would love for TimeMachine (or 3rd party tools) to be able to backup iCloud storage without having to synchronize data locally first. I keep a Mac Mini for the purpose, which also acts as a content cache for iCloud storage, meaning most file access from our house is done at "LAN speed", but i would love to simply click a setting on my macbook and it would "magically" include that content in the backup.
  • elsonrodriguez 5y ago
    > I used Linux from 93 until around 2000, and while i'm aware that the state of the Linux Desktop is completely different today Nope. I just installed Ubuntu 20.04 and within a few days I was messing with xrandr commands to get the HDMI resolution set to anything but 800x600. Linux will never be good on the desktop. Not because there are too many cooks in the kitchen, but because there's too many biochemists in the commune.