5 ms·

I'm in awe at the amount of patience required to hand-place 2400 tiny LEDs. I don't have it in me.

stavros 5y ago
Yeah, wow. It takes a special kind of person for sure. I would do three before getting tired (plus my eyes have this weird thing where the center of my vision goes blurry if I focus up close for a few minutes, so odd).
jhgb 5y ago
You'd probably build a machine to do that for you.
- altacc 5y ago
  This is a one off build, where they placed the LEDs by hand.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    I imagine that even one-off builds of complicated things may include specialized tools in their construction.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Most people do not appreciate that when doing custom builds, it is often the case that it takes more time to build jigs and other things to help than it takes to do the actual build.
      - jhgb 5y ago
        Yes, but GGGGP suggested that the alternative would be not building it due to lack of patience. That's not "extra time" but the difference between having and not having a result.
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      You would be surprised that many complicated things are built manually, it’s much too expensive to build a machine to do it. Chinese hands are really cheap.
    - altacc 5y ago
      In this case there is a video of them placing the LEDs by hand. At least they didn't have to solder them individually! (They used reflow soldering.)
- pottertheotter 5y ago
  There are a few people working on open source pick-and-place machines. Here’s one example https://youtu.be/y14pdfjYsyo https://youtu.be/y14pdfjYsyo
ThePhysicist 5y ago
Many PCB services offer SMD assembly as well, though the pricing is quite high for prototypes. PCBWay e.g. quotes over 300 USD for a single board with 2400 parts, though that price goes down quickly when ordering more (e.g. when ordering 50 they will only charge 20 USD per board).
- mhb 5y ago
  JLC offers SMD assembly and it's cheap. But maybe they didn't stock the LEDs he wanted to use.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Do you know of a tutorial on how to do assembly with KiCAD/JLCPCB? I've designed a few PCBs and tried to do assembly once, but IIRC my biggest problem was figuring out which parts they had that I could use and how to send them the info.
    - duped 5y ago
      Their parts library is available for download and search https://jlcpcb.com/parts https://jlcpcb.com/parts They have instructions on how to generate the BOM and placement files as CSV too https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bom-and-centroid-file-from-kicad https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bo...
      - stavros 5y ago
        Ah, I'll try again, thanks!
    - bb88 5y ago
      Here's one from JLCPCB themselves. https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bom-and-centroid-file-from-kicad https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bo... I did it for a board and it turned out pretty good. Make sure there's a pin 1 marker on your footprints so that in the preview (which they show in the submission process) you can make sure the parts are all aligned (and they will double check as well). The parts are here: https://jlcpcb.com/parts https://jlcpcb.com/parts Basic parts are free to use at just the assembly cost. Extended parts add an extra $3 processing per bom item (not per part). Basically as far as I can tell their parts are the same as LCSC.com. Also, Phil's lab has a long video on assembly from start to finish from Kicad to JLCPCB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5phi3nT8OU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5phi3nT8OU
dapids 5y ago
Stencil, paste, steady hand and a reflow station is all you need to be done this type of placement in just about a few hours. The surface tension from the paste will get you 90% of the way there.
- lupire 5y ago
  OP estimated 60hrs for placements and related work.
  - wongarsu 5y ago
    Removing the 300 Mosfets and resoldering them with botch wires was probably a larger part of than then the 2400 LEDs
  - dapids 5y ago
    Then OP is choosing to do that themselves, not a big deal, but yea, sounds about right if you don't have paste or stencils. I've done a 3212 component board in 6 hours with handheld reflow. It's possible.
kazinator 5y ago
Not so different from knitting or cross-stitching or whatnot. Lots of crafts require repeating some elementary steps thousands of times.
- laumars 5y ago
  I’ve never understood them either. But then one of the motivations for taking a career in IT was so I could automate repetitive tasks. Little did I realise at the time that a whole industry would form around that basic motivation.
  - bigiain 5y ago
    And this mindset leads you down the path of repurposing a 3d printer into an SMD piece-n-place machine, and spending 2-3 years of your 4 week project timeline getting that working properly... :-) (I would have totally paid $300 to get that done for me - even if it meant re laying out the pcb files to make it a practical "one big board with 2400 components, with a bunch of weird routed slots" task.)

Yeah, wow. It takes a special kind of person for sure. I would do three before getting tired (plus my eyes have this weird thing where the center of my vision goes blurry if I focus up close for a few minutes, so odd).

jhgb 5y ago

You'd probably build a machine to do that for you.

altacc 5y ago
This is a one off build, where they placed the LEDs by hand.
- jhgb 5y ago
  I imagine that even one-off builds of complicated things may include specialized tools in their construction.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Most people do not appreciate that when doing custom builds, it is often the case that it takes more time to build jigs and other things to help than it takes to do the actual build.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      Yes, but GGGGP suggested that the alternative would be not building it due to lack of patience. That's not "extra time" but the difference between having and not having a result.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    You would be surprised that many complicated things are built manually, it’s much too expensive to build a machine to do it. Chinese hands are really cheap.
  - altacc 5y ago
    In this case there is a video of them placing the LEDs by hand. At least they didn't have to solder them individually! (They used reflow soldering.)
pottertheotter 5y ago
There are a few people working on open source pick-and-place machines. Here’s one example https://youtu.be/y14pdfjYsyo https://youtu.be/y14pdfjYsyo

ThePhysicist 5y ago

Many PCB services offer SMD assembly as well, though the pricing is quite high for prototypes. PCBWay e.g. quotes over 300 USD for a single board with 2400 parts, though that price goes down quickly when ordering more (e.g. when ordering 50 they will only charge 20 USD per board).

mhb 5y ago
JLC offers SMD assembly and it's cheap. But maybe they didn't stock the LEDs he wanted to use.
- stavros 5y ago
  Do you know of a tutorial on how to do assembly with KiCAD/JLCPCB? I've designed a few PCBs and tried to do assembly once, but IIRC my biggest problem was figuring out which parts they had that I could use and how to send them the info.
  - duped 5y ago
    Their parts library is available for download and search https://jlcpcb.com/parts https://jlcpcb.com/parts They have instructions on how to generate the BOM and placement files as CSV too https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bom-and-centroid-file-from-kicad https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bo...
    - stavros 5y ago
      Ah, I'll try again, thanks!
  - bb88 5y ago
    Here's one from JLCPCB themselves. https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bom-and-centroid-file-from-kicad https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-how-to-generate-the-bo... I did it for a board and it turned out pretty good. Make sure there's a pin 1 marker on your footprints so that in the preview (which they show in the submission process) you can make sure the parts are all aligned (and they will double check as well). The parts are here: https://jlcpcb.com/parts https://jlcpcb.com/parts Basic parts are free to use at just the assembly cost. Extended parts add an extra $3 processing per bom item (not per part). Basically as far as I can tell their parts are the same as LCSC.com. Also, Phil's lab has a long video on assembly from start to finish from Kicad to JLCPCB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5phi3nT8OU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5phi3nT8OU

dapids 5y ago

Stencil, paste, steady hand and a reflow station is all you need to be done this type of placement in just about a few hours. The surface tension from the paste will get you 90% of the way there.

lupire 5y ago
OP estimated 60hrs for placements and related work.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  Removing the 300 Mosfets and resoldering them with botch wires was probably a larger part of than then the 2400 LEDs
- dapids 5y ago
  Then OP is choosing to do that themselves, not a big deal, but yea, sounds about right if you don't have paste or stencils. I've done a 3212 component board in 6 hours with handheld reflow. It's possible.

kazinator 5y ago

Not so different from knitting or cross-stitching or whatnot. Lots of crafts require repeating some elementary steps thousands of times.

laumars 5y ago
I’ve never understood them either. But then one of the motivations for taking a career in IT was so I could automate repetitive tasks. Little did I realise at the time that a whole industry would form around that basic motivation.
- bigiain 5y ago
  And this mindset leads you down the path of repurposing a 3d printer into an SMD piece-n-place machine, and spending 2-3 years of your 4 week project timeline getting that working properly... :-) (I would have totally paid $300 to get that done for me - even if it meant re laying out the pcb files to make it a practical "one big board with 2400 components, with a bunch of weird routed slots" task.)