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I keep thinking, even though I myself have gotten vaccinated against COVID-19, and I wish that as many people as possible get the vaccine too so we can have a c

I keep thinking, even though I myself have gotten vaccinated against COVID-19, and I wish that as many people as possible get the vaccine too so we can have a chance of herd immunity, that in a way maybe a small small amount of people not getting vaccinated is good. I think of this because I think, even though I trust the vaccine to be safe, what if there are unknown side-effects. In that way it is good that some people don’t get vaccinated. So that humanity still has some people that don’t get those side effects. So in a way, it would be like a natural way for the human race as a whole, to continue existing, by some people not getting vaccinated and possibly being the ones that made the right choice after all. Does that make sense? I think it does. Even though I believe in the vaccine. But I am talking about the bigger picture of the humanity as a whole over the whole course of its history. That it’s like a strategy that helps us survive by having us believe different things and therefore acting differently on the same information. And that sometimes one group of people is right, and usually it’s the majority group. But that this helps us survive those times when the minority is actually right.

rpmisms 5y ago
I think you're going to get some shit, but I agree. Lock-step action is almost never the smartest solution, even if it may be the right one.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  I have already but I'm used to it. As I said in my reply, what matters most is concern for those who'll be infected next and those who are already dying. If awkward language has to be used to rectify things/save lives then so be it (it may as well be me as anyone else). I have difficulty understanding why this is not the correct and proper thing to do. What's so wrong with stating the obvious truth? It seems to me that these days sensibilities and what people think are more important than saving lives. If this is in fact so, then heaven help us.
jbigelow76 5y ago
I keep thinking, even though I myself have gotten vaccinated against COVID-19, and I wish that as many people as possible get the vaccine to so we can have a chance of herd immunity, that in a way maybe a small small amount of people not getting vaccinated is good. Imagine reading that sentence in a newspaper op-ed in 1956 but with the word "polio" in place of "COVID-19".
- BoHerfVJrEsq 5y ago
  Eh, do you think I could make some statement of yours sound weird if I were to substitute "ebola" for some other word you used? Is this useful?
rubinelli 5y ago
Even though we talk about "the" vaccine, there isn't only one; there are half a dozen different vaccines being administered world-wide, using different methods of production. We're talking about all these independently-developed vaccines failing catastrophically in a way no other vaccine has ever failed before -- reactions after two weeks are incredibly rare. We're thousands of times more likely to be wiped out by a meteor.
- rpmisms 5y ago
  Alternatively, Alex Jones could be right, and they're sophisticated tools to sterilize the vast majority of people. This is obviously ridiculous, but it's why you should always have a control group.
  - rubinelli 5y ago
    Nope. The world didn't keep a control group for smallpox, even in the most distant villages. We simply eradicated it.
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      Smallpox wasn't eradicated by the vaccine. It wore itself out, and the (incredibly simple) vaccine helped a bit.
      - hilbert42 5y ago
        Veritably factual evidence please. Now, ASAP. With a claim of that magnitude you shouldn't need to look far, as you'd be able to spot the evidence from afar no matter what direction you looked.
- nradov 5y ago
  Right. There's very little in common between, let's say, the Moderna and Sputnik vaccines. The effects appear to be similar but the underlying technology is completely different.
- 5y ago
_3u10 5y ago
In BC where I live we have 85% of people vaccinated. We are back in lockdown with mask mandates and vaccine passports. They are still going on about the unvaccinated, there’s no such thing as herd immunity in the politics of COVID lockdowns.
- adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
  Probably because those 15% of people are driving 50% or more of the spread. One of the reasons Delta is such a big deal is that it raised the herd immunity threshold from around 70% to around 95% (of 2 dose MRNA based, J&J wouldn't be strong enough to provide herd immunity if 100% of people had it).
  - _3u10 5y ago
    I’m sure they are… however… Sweden has 65% vaccinated and no mask mandates or passports, or mandatory vaccines. It’s purely a political decision and nothing to do with this or that rate. Previously BC had 1/10th of the infections no one vaccinated and we were open for business.
hilbert42 5y ago
Life is deadly, it eventually kills you and everyone around you whether you like it or not#. Life's a risk from well before you were born until the day you die. Taking risks everyday is what life's all about. That said, when transversing life's obstacles it's incumbent on you to do your best to not trample on others and thus increase their risks. And sometimes that means taking additional risks yourself as it's the right and proper thing to do as it minimize the risks for others - and here that additional risk is pretty insignificant - that of bring vaccinated. I'd contend that those who aren't prepared to take that risk are acting selfishly. If not, then they're spooked or damn scared. Why some people in the US, where there's access to good eduation, verifiably accurate information, etc., and yet they still refuse to accept evidence and logical argument is one of the big conundrums of our time. Still, even with all these obstacles in hand it's our duty to help them, difficult as that may be. # That's a raw point at the moment for me as a close friend of some decades died a few days ago (no, it wasn't COVID).
taylodl 5y ago
Not everybody is able to get the vaccine. That's why the vaccination goal isn't 100% of the population, it's 100% of the eligible population. Even that can't be achieved - as it's never been achieved with any other vaccine. That's all known and was anticipated. What wasn't anticipated was how low the vaccination rate would be and the leading indicator of whether the vaccination rate is high or low in a particular area is whether the majority of the voters are registered as Republicans or Democrats. No one saw that coming, yet here we are.

rpmisms 5y ago

I think you're going to get some shit, but I agree. Lock-step action is almost never the smartest solution, even if it may be the right one.

hilbert42 5y ago
I have already but I'm used to it. As I said in my reply, what matters most is concern for those who'll be infected next and those who are already dying. If awkward language has to be used to rectify things/save lives then so be it (it may as well be me as anyone else). I have difficulty understanding why this is not the correct and proper thing to do. What's so wrong with stating the obvious truth? It seems to me that these days sensibilities and what people think are more important than saving lives. If this is in fact so, then heaven help us.

jbigelow76 5y ago

I keep thinking, even though I myself have gotten vaccinated against COVID-19, and I wish that as many people as possible get the vaccine to so we can have a chance of herd immunity, that in a way maybe a small small amount of people not getting vaccinated is good. Imagine reading that sentence in a newspaper op-ed in 1956 but with the word "polio" in place of "COVID-19".

BoHerfVJrEsq 5y ago
Eh, do you think I could make some statement of yours sound weird if I were to substitute "ebola" for some other word you used? Is this useful?

rubinelli 5y ago

Even though we talk about "the" vaccine, there isn't only one; there are half a dozen different vaccines being administered world-wide, using different methods of production. We're talking about all these independently-developed vaccines failing catastrophically in a way no other vaccine has ever failed before -- reactions after two weeks are incredibly rare. We're thousands of times more likely to be wiped out by a meteor.

rpmisms 5y ago
Alternatively, Alex Jones could be right, and they're sophisticated tools to sterilize the vast majority of people. This is obviously ridiculous, but it's why you should always have a control group.
- rubinelli 5y ago
  Nope. The world didn't keep a control group for smallpox, even in the most distant villages. We simply eradicated it.
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    Smallpox wasn't eradicated by the vaccine. It wore itself out, and the (incredibly simple) vaccine helped a bit.
    - hilbert42 5y ago
      Veritably factual evidence please. Now, ASAP. With a claim of that magnitude you shouldn't need to look far, as you'd be able to spot the evidence from afar no matter what direction you looked.
nradov 5y ago
Right. There's very little in common between, let's say, the Moderna and Sputnik vaccines. The effects appear to be similar but the underlying technology is completely different.
5y ago

_3u10 5y ago

In BC where I live we have 85% of people vaccinated. We are back in lockdown with mask mandates and vaccine passports. They are still going on about the unvaccinated, there’s no such thing as herd immunity in the politics of COVID lockdowns.

adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
Probably because those 15% of people are driving 50% or more of the spread. One of the reasons Delta is such a big deal is that it raised the herd immunity threshold from around 70% to around 95% (of 2 dose MRNA based, J&J wouldn't be strong enough to provide herd immunity if 100% of people had it).
- _3u10 5y ago
  I’m sure they are… however… Sweden has 65% vaccinated and no mask mandates or passports, or mandatory vaccines. It’s purely a political decision and nothing to do with this or that rate. Previously BC had 1/10th of the infections no one vaccinated and we were open for business.

hilbert42 5y ago

Life is deadly, it eventually kills you and everyone around you whether you like it or not#. Life's a risk from well before you were born until the day you die. Taking risks everyday is what life's all about. That said, when transversing life's obstacles it's incumbent on you to do your best to not trample on others and thus increase their risks. And sometimes that means taking additional risks yourself as it's the right and proper thing to do as it minimize the risks for others - and here that additional risk is pretty insignificant - that of bring vaccinated. I'd contend that those who aren't prepared to take that risk are acting selfishly. If not, then they're spooked or damn scared. Why some people in the US, where there's access to good eduation, verifiably accurate information, etc., and yet they still refuse to accept evidence and logical argument is one of the big conundrums of our time. Still, even with all these obstacles in hand it's our duty to help them, difficult as that may be. # That's a raw point at the moment for me as a close friend of some decades died a few days ago (no, it wasn't COVID).

taylodl 5y ago

Not everybody is able to get the vaccine. That's why the vaccination goal isn't 100% of the population, it's 100% of the eligible population. Even that can't be achieved - as it's never been achieved with any other vaccine. That's all known and was anticipated. What wasn't anticipated was how low the vaccination rate would be and the leading indicator of whether the vaccination rate is high or low in a particular area is whether the majority of the voters are registered as Republicans or Democrats. No one saw that coming, yet here we are.