5 ms·

I think it was Justin Kan who tweeted something like: "if someone else could copy your product, and they have more customers/grow better, then you aren't the r

I think it was Justin Kan who tweeted something like: "if someone else could copy your product, and they have more customers/grow better, then you aren't the right fit for it" Also, nowadays, product is a small part of your company. Can you remember the last time you saw someone having an initial traction just because they have a great product? You can copy Airtable/Notion as long as you want, adding some more features to it. But it's not how it works, I believe.

mrtksn 5y ago
True but this is valid only for the established companies. A solo dev or bunch of people with a small seed round don't have any of that moat. AFAIK it's a common practice to copy up and coming indie games from the app store top charts because an established team would have the muscle to catch up and surpass the new ones. I don't see why wouldn't be possible to do it to any other product that is not an overnight success but shows healthy organic growth. I think this was also the idea behind huge early funding rounds, that is to create a large early success so that it's not copied right away.
- artembugara 5y ago
  Indie game is where product = "company". Organic grows != "we just launch and see how users come to us" Huge early funding rounds = outstanding team + understanding of market + previous successful exits + 10B TAM
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    A healthy organic early growth implies product market fit, or at least some promising alignment. Unless it's technologically hard service, there's no moat that a well funded team can't replicate and surpass. Until they have sizeable operations, all startups are "company == product". They are pretty vulnerable of being copied.
    - tlogan 5y ago
      The company is more than “techology”. It also marketing, sales, regional, leadership, market size, etc. That can be (and it is) a big moat preventing a well founded startup to replicate. In short one needs to have something is hard to replicate - but that does not need to be technology.
      - mrtksn 5y ago
        I know, the point is that at early stages there’s little of it. That’s when they copy you, just like that unless you have something else that’s hard to replicate.
debarshri 5y ago
One of the trends I have been seeing, especially in devtool space is there products built by agencies and there are products built by companies where it is their flagship product. When you have a situation like this, then it dilutes the value proposition of your product. Even though, agency driven product might be serious or might not be seriously pursued, it definitely make the space red ocean. I wonder how people generally combat this kind of scenarios.
- zerkten 5y ago
  One of the weaknesses of agency-driven products is the lack of market understanding and ongoing connection. It's frequently a sweep up of anecdotes from their developers, clients, and perhaps some other research. Sometimes it's a vanity project for someone who ultimately knows that they won't turn the agency into a product company and they ultimately move once the product gets attention. You have to wait them out by being selective in how you burn your resources while developing a "brand" that's different from an agency. Be genuinely interested in solving the problems that your users have. Devtools have always been attractive as products to developers, but they are notoriously difficult to be successful with. You need to find all of the workflows that your users have and optimize them effectively. Sometimes the things that are needed are dull and boring, but if they visibly take someone's time then there is long-term value. Be careful about supporting esoteric approaches that will disappear, but also be aware that this can help with locking in some customers at the right point. Agencies tend to be bad at support. They are optimized for making new things and moving on. You have an opportunity to provide a strong support experience which is coupled with intelligence gathering on developer needs.
jcims 5y ago
It might be a way to alleviate some regret after the fact, but that type of thinking seems like a great way to induce paralysis.
arnaudsm 5y ago
I'd pay decent money for a Notion competitor that doesn't take 10+ seconds to load.
- dabedee 5y ago
  Try getoutline.com. it's open source too.

mrtksn 5y ago

True but this is valid only for the established companies. A solo dev or bunch of people with a small seed round don't have any of that moat. AFAIK it's a common practice to copy up and coming indie games from the app store top charts because an established team would have the muscle to catch up and surpass the new ones. I don't see why wouldn't be possible to do it to any other product that is not an overnight success but shows healthy organic growth. I think this was also the idea behind huge early funding rounds, that is to create a large early success so that it's not copied right away.

artembugara 5y ago
Indie game is where product = "company". Organic grows != "we just launch and see how users come to us" Huge early funding rounds = outstanding team + understanding of market + previous successful exits + 10B TAM
- mrtksn 5y ago
  A healthy organic early growth implies product market fit, or at least some promising alignment. Unless it's technologically hard service, there's no moat that a well funded team can't replicate and surpass. Until they have sizeable operations, all startups are "company == product". They are pretty vulnerable of being copied.
  - tlogan 5y ago
    The company is more than “techology”. It also marketing, sales, regional, leadership, market size, etc. That can be (and it is) a big moat preventing a well founded startup to replicate. In short one needs to have something is hard to replicate - but that does not need to be technology.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      I know, the point is that at early stages there’s little of it. That’s when they copy you, just like that unless you have something else that’s hard to replicate.

debarshri 5y ago

One of the trends I have been seeing, especially in devtool space is there products built by agencies and there are products built by companies where it is their flagship product. When you have a situation like this, then it dilutes the value proposition of your product. Even though, agency driven product might be serious or might not be seriously pursued, it definitely make the space red ocean. I wonder how people generally combat this kind of scenarios.

zerkten 5y ago
One of the weaknesses of agency-driven products is the lack of market understanding and ongoing connection. It's frequently a sweep up of anecdotes from their developers, clients, and perhaps some other research. Sometimes it's a vanity project for someone who ultimately knows that they won't turn the agency into a product company and they ultimately move once the product gets attention. You have to wait them out by being selective in how you burn your resources while developing a "brand" that's different from an agency. Be genuinely interested in solving the problems that your users have. Devtools have always been attractive as products to developers, but they are notoriously difficult to be successful with. You need to find all of the workflows that your users have and optimize them effectively. Sometimes the things that are needed are dull and boring, but if they visibly take someone's time then there is long-term value. Be careful about supporting esoteric approaches that will disappear, but also be aware that this can help with locking in some customers at the right point. Agencies tend to be bad at support. They are optimized for making new things and moving on. You have an opportunity to provide a strong support experience which is coupled with intelligence gathering on developer needs.

jcims 5y ago

It might be a way to alleviate some regret after the fact, but that type of thinking seems like a great way to induce paralysis.

arnaudsm 5y ago

I'd pay decent money for a Notion competitor that doesn't take 10+ seconds to load.

dabedee 5y ago
Try getoutline.com. it's open source too.