6 ms·

I have a thoracic spinal cord injury, I can still move my hands and arms fully but not much else. When I was in hospital people were there for all kinds of reas

by dia80 5y ago

I have a thoracic spinal cord injury, I can still move my hands and arms fully but not much else. When I was in hospital people were there for all kinds of reasons. There was only one theme. Motorcyclists. What's more they tended to have cervical injuries thus couldn't move at least part of there hands and arms or sometimes all. I can't ever motorcycle now but if I could that would have been enough to put me off. The tail risk is crazy.

trangus_1985 5y ago
Motorcycling is deceptively safe. It's just that the cost of finding out when you fuck around is very high. Safe riding is still more dangerous than being in a car, of course. But, the vast majority of motorcycle injuries are due to known dangerous factors such as alcohol, or going too fast through turns.
- jascii 5y ago
  "Safe riding is still more dangerous than being in a car" To the operator. If we count the lethal damage caused to others, that number doesn't look so good...
  - trangus_1985 5y ago
    > we count the lethal damage caused to others So, that's a pretty hefty claim. I'd like to see some data. :) A very large chunk of motorcycle accidents are single party (about 25%), the rest involve a car, usually at low speeds such as an unprotected left turn or bad merge. I did some quick googling and found that motorcycles are less likely to be involved in pedestrian accidents than cars, but I think the the onus is on you to support your claim.
    - coyotespike 5y ago
      I think you've misread jascii - they are saying riding a motorcycle is more dangerous for the operator, while driving a car is less dangerous for the operator compared to adjacent pedestrians (for instance).
      - jascii 5y ago
        I just quickly want to thank you for your use of the "they" pronoun, while I generally identify as "he/him" it is nice not to have that assumed!
    - jascii 5y ago
      "Passenger cars and light trucks (vans, pickups, and sport utility vehicles) accounted for 46.1% and 39.1%, respectively, of the 4875 deaths, with the remainder split among motorcycles, buses, and heavy trucks." https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232 That makes 85.2% of pedestrian fatalities. This does not make automobile traffic a "safe" form of traffic in my book...
- the_gipsy 5y ago
  > going too fast through turns Going fast through turns is exactly the point for the majority of riders (all except choppers)
  - i_am_proteus 5y ago
    Yes, but not going too fast. One of the reasons I stopped going on group rides was lead riders who burned through blind corners. I'll take an open corner with good visibility as fast as I dare, but if I can't see through the turn, I take it slowly.
    - mPReDiToR 5y ago
      Always ride your own ride. Let the other guys arrive at the scene of the accident first. You, me, a couple of other middle aged guys all hanging back on our sports tourers, while the crotch rockets are off antagonising the cage dwellers. We'll all arrive in time for coffee, no sweat.
      - i_am_proteus 5y ago
        So completely spot, on my friend.
    - the_gipsy 5y ago
      Yea you’re right. When riding in group, it should be ok to stay behind, as long as the last rider of a split-group waits at road forks.
agloeregrets 5y ago
The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved but it is expensive and a lot of people do not take the solutions seriously. Good gear, I mean expensive gear, has built in spine protection. Good helmets limit your neck movement. We even have airbag-equipped suits! Outcomes are WAY better than they used to be. If you are in full leathers and with good neck protection, your odds for major spinal injury are incredibly reduced. Similar results also come from riding a motorcycle with ABS. Problem is: people do not take safety seriously. The thing is the people you didn't see at the hospital: People who don't wear helmets, let alone the rest of the gear. They died before then. Motorcycles are a calculated risk, few correctly do the math, but when the math is done it is a far lesser risk.
- bserge 5y ago
  Good to know. Although it's scary to think about waking up a quadriplegic.
- tarr11 5y ago
  > The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved I don't think it's settled that this has been "solved" "This systematic review highlighted lack of appropriate evidence on efficacy of back protectors. Based on limited information, we are uncertain about the effects of back protectors on spinal injuries. Further research is required to substantiate the effects of back protectors on mortality and other injuries to the back." https://sjtrem.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13049-016-0307-3 https://sjtrem.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13049-016...
  - kristofferR 5y ago
    I think he was talking mostly about good motorcycle airbag vests like the Helite Turtle and e-Turtle. "Good" is an important qualifier word though, the worst airbags offer little protection and don't limit head movement. This is a great video about the Helite Turtle (it came out before the electronic e-Turtle) and motorcycle airbags in general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2jZryt607U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2jZryt607U I'll definitively grab a Helite e-Turtle when I start riding next year.

by dia80 5y ago

trangus_1985 5y ago

Motorcycling is deceptively safe. It's just that the cost of finding out when you fuck around is very high. Safe riding is still more dangerous than being in a car, of course. But, the vast majority of motorcycle injuries are due to known dangerous factors such as alcohol, or going too fast through turns.

jascii 5y ago
"Safe riding is still more dangerous than being in a car" To the operator. If we count the lethal damage caused to others, that number doesn't look so good...
- trangus_1985 5y ago
  > we count the lethal damage caused to others So, that's a pretty hefty claim. I'd like to see some data. :) A very large chunk of motorcycle accidents are single party (about 25%), the rest involve a car, usually at low speeds such as an unprotected left turn or bad merge. I did some quick googling and found that motorcycles are less likely to be involved in pedestrian accidents than cars, but I think the the onus is on you to support your claim.
  - coyotespike 5y ago
    I think you've misread jascii - they are saying riding a motorcycle is more dangerous for the operator, while driving a car is less dangerous for the operator compared to adjacent pedestrians (for instance).
    - jascii 5y ago
      I just quickly want to thank you for your use of the "they" pronoun, while I generally identify as "he/him" it is nice not to have that assumed!
  - jascii 5y ago
    "Passenger cars and light trucks (vans, pickups, and sport utility vehicles) accounted for 46.1% and 39.1%, respectively, of the 4875 deaths, with the remainder split among motorcycles, buses, and heavy trucks." https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232 That makes 85.2% of pedestrian fatalities. This does not make automobile traffic a "safe" form of traffic in my book...
the_gipsy 5y ago
> going too fast through turns Going fast through turns is exactly the point for the majority of riders (all except choppers)
- i_am_proteus 5y ago
  Yes, but not going too fast. One of the reasons I stopped going on group rides was lead riders who burned through blind corners. I'll take an open corner with good visibility as fast as I dare, but if I can't see through the turn, I take it slowly.
  - mPReDiToR 5y ago
    Always ride your own ride. Let the other guys arrive at the scene of the accident first. You, me, a couple of other middle aged guys all hanging back on our sports tourers, while the crotch rockets are off antagonising the cage dwellers. We'll all arrive in time for coffee, no sweat.
    - i_am_proteus 5y ago
      So completely spot, on my friend.
  - the_gipsy 5y ago
    Yea you’re right. When riding in group, it should be ok to stay behind, as long as the last rider of a split-group waits at road forks.

agloeregrets 5y ago

The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved but it is expensive and a lot of people do not take the solutions seriously. Good gear, I mean expensive gear, has built in spine protection. Good helmets limit your neck movement. We even have airbag-equipped suits! Outcomes are WAY better than they used to be. If you are in full leathers and with good neck protection, your odds for major spinal injury are incredibly reduced. Similar results also come from riding a motorcycle with ABS. Problem is: people do not take safety seriously. The thing is the people you didn't see at the hospital: People who don't wear helmets, let alone the rest of the gear. They died before then. Motorcycles are a calculated risk, few correctly do the math, but when the math is done it is a far lesser risk.

bserge 5y ago
Good to know. Although it's scary to think about waking up a quadriplegic.
tarr11 5y ago
> The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved I don't think it's settled that this has been "solved" "This systematic review highlighted lack of appropriate evidence on efficacy of back protectors. Based on limited information, we are uncertain about the effects of back protectors on spinal injuries. Further research is required to substantiate the effects of back protectors on mortality and other injuries to the back." https://sjtrem.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13049-016-0307-3 https://sjtrem.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13049-016...
- kristofferR 5y ago
  I think he was talking mostly about good motorcycle airbag vests like the Helite Turtle and e-Turtle. "Good" is an important qualifier word though, the worst airbags offer little protection and don't limit head movement. This is a great video about the Helite Turtle (it came out before the electronic e-Turtle) and motorcycle airbags in general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2jZryt607U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2jZryt607U I'll definitively grab a Helite e-Turtle when I start riding next year.