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That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues wa

by simias 5y ago

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when you're trying to sleep...

tailspin2019 5y ago
Ouch!
joelbluminator 5y ago
I remember the doctor called and wanted to speak to my ex wife and I jokingly talled her she got cancer. She didn't though, it was Aids. To this day I think my joke softened the blow for her a bit.
mrosett 5y ago
I once had a friend uncharacteristically not respond to a couple texts confirming plans we'd made. I eventually sent "Are you alive?" and got a call back from the hiking companion who had watched her fall to her death two days earlier. That one gives me nightmares.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  Yikes I'm sorry. In my early twenties I'd jokingly do the "finger gun to the head" thing when I got a task I wasn't pleased about. Then my cousin died by suicide and, being my first encounter with suicide in the real world, it dawned on me that doing that in front of people was super, super not cool. I'll never know if I did that in front of someone that had lost a loved one to suicide via firearm.
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    I saw someone do that to a man who I knew (but he didn’t) had lost his teenage son to a suicide by firearm two days earlier. They hadn’t even had the funeral yet.
  - Kuraj 5y ago
    I do that all the time and it never dawned on me until I read your comment. Thank you.
    - 3pt14159 5y ago
      Thank you for the response. It's these small comments of personal reflection that make HN feel like a real place of community.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    There are so many jokes we make everyday that are about dying or experiencing something unpleasant that it's not reasonable to put up such a barrier. You're basically saying, "NO JOKES!" You lost the statistical battle but most people will never encounter this scenario. We all encounter scenarios where we make a joke without knowing X person is going through that. You learn and adjust. For instance, I couldn't make jokes or references about cancer with a partner of mine because one of her friends died at like 17 to lung cancer. I was like, "Oh, alright. I get it. I'll avoid that with you." You don't need to be disbarred from ever making the joke again just because you encountered someone who is sensitive to it. You just don't use that kind of joke with them.
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      I tend to go the “make sure everyone is okay with that kind of joke first”, but there's very little practical difference between the results of these two strategies.
    - beerandt 5y ago
      This will vary by person... But for me at least, it's worse when someone changes what they were going to say to try and avoid a topic they know might be sensitive to you, especially if it was in otherwise "innocent", organic conversation. For instance, changing a joke with a cancer punchline to something else, on the fly, because halfway into it you realize it's going to offend one of the people present. Who certainly has already heard it, and knows what's coming. Now, not only have you reminded the person of what you were trying to avoid, but you've also created this awkward tension where you-know that they-know, but have to pretend you don't know, because of the social "gesture" of changing their joke for you. Even if the fact that they're coddling you negates that gesture and then some. The more extreme example of this is the scenario where kids in school are sharing stories about, eg, their mom or dad, and when you get to the orphan, you either skip over them, or ask them a completely different question than everyone else, without acknowledging and explaining why.
    - 3pt14159 5y ago
      I'm not against dark humour, I think it's grand, actually, and helps us get through trouble. But I think there is a difference between someone putting up a sincere joke and someone in their twenties at the workplace. I'm not Mr. PC Police, but when I put myself in the shoes of someone else that may have lost a loved one in that manner it really shook me. Suicide isn't so rare that we should avoid making affordances where we can. And even so, a true comic like Dave Chappelle can create real human even on dark subjects at the same time. It's a balance.
- gowld 5y ago
  Her death is of course tragic, but there's nothing wrong with the text question -- you were on target.
  - Aaronstotle 5y ago
    I don't believe anyone asking this question expects the recipient to have actually passed away though
- BikiniPrince 5y ago
  I had some friends texting me after being offline for a week. I was in fact alive, but not exactly walking. I had a bit of a motorcycle accident. Now, if people don’t hear from me often enough they start calling. I spooked them a bit. Walking and cursing again after physical therapy.
- vmception 5y ago
  yeah this one bothers me about my interaction with some women who take the "never respond" approach to expressing disinterest, I don't even know if they made it home okay and I'm not even sure if I'm in the place to ask
- argc 5y ago
  My god, I don't like that people can die from hiking or walking or driving to the store. Those sudden, random, freak-accident type deaths really bother me.
MrGilbert 5y ago
3 years ago, I had a talk with the Chief Senior Physician of the hospital my mum was treated. She was terminally ill, she was fightiing for weeks, but there was no hope left. So it was decided to end all life support measures. When I went back to my car, where my then-minor sister was waiting for news, I said: "Sie hat es geschafft.", which literally means "She made it" in German - however, I meant it in the meaning of "She doesn't have to suffer any more.", which is also a valid meaning. After seeing the rlief on my sister's face, I immediately apologized and explained the situation. Ever since this day, I a) think twice before I speak and b) try to avoid double meanings as much as I can. It still haunts me, though she's fine with it.
- gumby 5y ago
  I had the same experience, also in German, when I told my 7 yo son that his grandmother (who had been fighting cancer for a few years) “no longer suffering”. He was at first happy. He’s most likely forgotten but that experience will stay with me for the rest of my life. In this case it was a euphemism an adult would have understood but a child could not, at least as the first statement.
- NortySpock 5y ago
  I also try to avoid double meanings and also indicate the part of the question I am answering as often times people have different shorthand for the question they are asking than I might have. example question: "Is this job running?" (implied: is it "working"?) Answer: "No, it is not currently running however I see it is scheduled to run daily at 7pm. I don't see any errors in the past 2 days. Did you expect it to import data recently?"
  - brazzy 5y ago
    Oh god yes. I constantly see misunderstandings and conversations that take three times as long as necessary because people don't clearly and explicitly say what they're asking or answering.
- gowld 5y ago
  Covered in Arrested Development: https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Dr._Fishman https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Dr._Fishman
etblg 5y ago
I did the same thing to someone after they just joined, figured it'd just come off as a joke and no harm would be done. Pretty soon in the following conversation I got the nagging feeling that it didn't come off as a joke. I still feel terrible about that to the day, and that guy's been working here for years now.
- gumby 5y ago
  Since he’s still there, he’s probably long shrugged it off but as you haven’t you could consider bringing it up. I doubt it would make him feel any better (or worse) but might make you feel better. And if he laughs it off it might really be a relief to you.
ransom1538 5y ago
Off topic. Do firings come out of the blue though? I was a VP for a while (not anymore) - but when the person I had to fire was about to get fired, they KNEW it as soon as the door opened. Firing someone is the worst experience ever - the only reason I had to fire someone was because WE screwed up in the interview process.
- indigochill 5y ago
  I've seen a couple of mass layoffs. How much you see that coming can be a function of how close to the decision-making you are and how familiar you are with the process. As I've advanced, I've progressively seen it coming farther out. But the first one was totally out of the blue to me. Individual firings seem a bit more predictable.
  - foobarian 5y ago
    Do you have any tips/signs to look out for :-)
    - edgriebel 5y ago
      When you have a one-on-one with your manager and the VP of Engineering or a HR person is there too, or when your team in another site is laid off and you hear it thru the grapevine instead of from your manager. But for something more actionable, if your manager is constantly pressing you for "what happened with this one" when dates are slipping, or reminding you "you know, you're one of the highest paid people here..."
    - worker767424 5y ago
      Unscheduled one-on-one early in the day, possibly with HR present, and your manager looks incredibly nervous. Take a deep breath, go in, say nothing, sign nothing, demand your last paycheck. The decision has been made, and anything you say only hurts your case if you sue later.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
EasyTiger_ 5y ago
How incredibly insensitive.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  Maybe if they knew ahead of time, but they didn't, so it was just a joke, and in no conceivable way an insensitive one.
  - EasyTiger_ 5y ago
    Being called to the manager's office is stress-inducing for most people and presumably the person was having issues in their role beforehand and was expecting something serious. To make a joke about such things is beyond callous.
atok1 5y ago
Yeah, that is pretty rough. I've been in similar situations and I tell my self to just try to be a better person today than to dwell over the past. I can't change what I've done but try to do better.
at-fates-hands 5y ago
Used to work sales for a large corporation. One of the fun things the women did on our team was decorate our cubicles when people had birthdays. One morning they were laughing and having a good time decorating of the sales guys cubicle. Their manager walked by and said rather flippantly, "I wouldn't bother doing that, he won't be here to enjoy it."
suyash 5y ago
that's the worst thing to say to anyone, why would you do that?
steve_adams_86 5y ago
Haha, I did this to myself once. I had no idea, and seemingly no one I worked with had any idea, and we laughed a bit as I got up to "go get fired" at my meeting. Then I came back and had to explain that I was actually just fired. Luckily I haven't been fired since, but that "joke" stuck with me.
Lio 5y ago
It’s usually security policy to clean whiteboards after meetings. Many years ago it got to be a standing joke in various places I’ve worked that if someone actually left a digram on a whiteboard, eg some bit of server infrastructure or UML, you’d add extra arrows pointing to “DOWNSIZING” or “EMPLOYEE REDUNDANCIES” bubbles. Then one day I explained the old joke at a new gig and everyone in the room got really serious for a moment. They told me that 6 monthish prior someone from senior management had left plans for the last downsizing round on a whiteboard and lots of people had seen it…

by simias 5y ago

tailspin2019 5y ago

Ouch!

joelbluminator 5y ago

I remember the doctor called and wanted to speak to my ex wife and I jokingly talled her she got cancer. She didn't though, it was Aids. To this day I think my joke softened the blow for her a bit.

mrosett 5y ago

I once had a friend uncharacteristically not respond to a couple texts confirming plans we'd made. I eventually sent "Are you alive?" and got a call back from the hiking companion who had watched her fall to her death two days earlier. That one gives me nightmares.

3pt14159 5y ago
Yikes I'm sorry. In my early twenties I'd jokingly do the "finger gun to the head" thing when I got a task I wasn't pleased about. Then my cousin died by suicide and, being my first encounter with suicide in the real world, it dawned on me that doing that in front of people was super, super not cool. I'll never know if I did that in front of someone that had lost a loved one to suicide via firearm.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  I saw someone do that to a man who I knew (but he didn’t) had lost his teenage son to a suicide by firearm two days earlier. They hadn’t even had the funeral yet.
- Kuraj 5y ago
  I do that all the time and it never dawned on me until I read your comment. Thank you.
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    Thank you for the response. It's these small comments of personal reflection that make HN feel like a real place of community.
- bradlys 5y ago
  There are so many jokes we make everyday that are about dying or experiencing something unpleasant that it's not reasonable to put up such a barrier. You're basically saying, "NO JOKES!" You lost the statistical battle but most people will never encounter this scenario. We all encounter scenarios where we make a joke without knowing X person is going through that. You learn and adjust. For instance, I couldn't make jokes or references about cancer with a partner of mine because one of her friends died at like 17 to lung cancer. I was like, "Oh, alright. I get it. I'll avoid that with you." You don't need to be disbarred from ever making the joke again just because you encountered someone who is sensitive to it. You just don't use that kind of joke with them.
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    I tend to go the “make sure everyone is okay with that kind of joke first”, but there's very little practical difference between the results of these two strategies.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    This will vary by person... But for me at least, it's worse when someone changes what they were going to say to try and avoid a topic they know might be sensitive to you, especially if it was in otherwise "innocent", organic conversation. For instance, changing a joke with a cancer punchline to something else, on the fly, because halfway into it you realize it's going to offend one of the people present. Who certainly has already heard it, and knows what's coming. Now, not only have you reminded the person of what you were trying to avoid, but you've also created this awkward tension where you-know that they-know, but have to pretend you don't know, because of the social "gesture" of changing their joke for you. Even if the fact that they're coddling you negates that gesture and then some. The more extreme example of this is the scenario where kids in school are sharing stories about, eg, their mom or dad, and when you get to the orphan, you either skip over them, or ask them a completely different question than everyone else, without acknowledging and explaining why.
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    I'm not against dark humour, I think it's grand, actually, and helps us get through trouble. But I think there is a difference between someone putting up a sincere joke and someone in their twenties at the workplace. I'm not Mr. PC Police, but when I put myself in the shoes of someone else that may have lost a loved one in that manner it really shook me. Suicide isn't so rare that we should avoid making affordances where we can. And even so, a true comic like Dave Chappelle can create real human even on dark subjects at the same time. It's a balance.
gowld 5y ago
Her death is of course tragic, but there's nothing wrong with the text question -- you were on target.
- Aaronstotle 5y ago
  I don't believe anyone asking this question expects the recipient to have actually passed away though
BikiniPrince 5y ago
I had some friends texting me after being offline for a week. I was in fact alive, but not exactly walking. I had a bit of a motorcycle accident. Now, if people don’t hear from me often enough they start calling. I spooked them a bit. Walking and cursing again after physical therapy.
vmception 5y ago
yeah this one bothers me about my interaction with some women who take the "never respond" approach to expressing disinterest, I don't even know if they made it home okay and I'm not even sure if I'm in the place to ask
argc 5y ago
My god, I don't like that people can die from hiking or walking or driving to the store. Those sudden, random, freak-accident type deaths really bother me.

MrGilbert 5y ago

3 years ago, I had a talk with the Chief Senior Physician of the hospital my mum was treated. She was terminally ill, she was fightiing for weeks, but there was no hope left. So it was decided to end all life support measures. When I went back to my car, where my then-minor sister was waiting for news, I said: "Sie hat es geschafft.", which literally means "She made it" in German - however, I meant it in the meaning of "She doesn't have to suffer any more.", which is also a valid meaning. After seeing the rlief on my sister's face, I immediately apologized and explained the situation. Ever since this day, I a) think twice before I speak and b) try to avoid double meanings as much as I can. It still haunts me, though she's fine with it.

gumby 5y ago
I had the same experience, also in German, when I told my 7 yo son that his grandmother (who had been fighting cancer for a few years) “no longer suffering”. He was at first happy. He’s most likely forgotten but that experience will stay with me for the rest of my life. In this case it was a euphemism an adult would have understood but a child could not, at least as the first statement.
NortySpock 5y ago
I also try to avoid double meanings and also indicate the part of the question I am answering as often times people have different shorthand for the question they are asking than I might have. example question: "Is this job running?" (implied: is it "working"?) Answer: "No, it is not currently running however I see it is scheduled to run daily at 7pm. I don't see any errors in the past 2 days. Did you expect it to import data recently?"
- brazzy 5y ago
  Oh god yes. I constantly see misunderstandings and conversations that take three times as long as necessary because people don't clearly and explicitly say what they're asking or answering.
gowld 5y ago
Covered in Arrested Development: https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Dr._Fishman https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Dr._Fishman

etblg 5y ago

I did the same thing to someone after they just joined, figured it'd just come off as a joke and no harm would be done. Pretty soon in the following conversation I got the nagging feeling that it didn't come off as a joke. I still feel terrible about that to the day, and that guy's been working here for years now.

gumby 5y ago
Since he’s still there, he’s probably long shrugged it off but as you haven’t you could consider bringing it up. I doubt it would make him feel any better (or worse) but might make you feel better. And if he laughs it off it might really be a relief to you.

ransom1538 5y ago

Off topic. Do firings come out of the blue though? I was a VP for a while (not anymore) - but when the person I had to fire was about to get fired, they KNEW it as soon as the door opened. Firing someone is the worst experience ever - the only reason I had to fire someone was because WE screwed up in the interview process.

indigochill 5y ago
I've seen a couple of mass layoffs. How much you see that coming can be a function of how close to the decision-making you are and how familiar you are with the process. As I've advanced, I've progressively seen it coming farther out. But the first one was totally out of the blue to me. Individual firings seem a bit more predictable.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Do you have any tips/signs to look out for :-)
  - edgriebel 5y ago
    When you have a one-on-one with your manager and the VP of Engineering or a HR person is there too, or when your team in another site is laid off and you hear it thru the grapevine instead of from your manager. But for something more actionable, if your manager is constantly pressing you for "what happened with this one" when dates are slipping, or reminding you "you know, you're one of the highest paid people here..."
  - worker767424 5y ago
    Unscheduled one-on-one early in the day, possibly with HR present, and your manager looks incredibly nervous. Take a deep breath, go in, say nothing, sign nothing, demand your last paycheck. The decision has been made, and anything you say only hurts your case if you sue later.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

EasyTiger_ 5y ago

How incredibly insensitive.

stronglikedan 5y ago
Maybe if they knew ahead of time, but they didn't, so it was just a joke, and in no conceivable way an insensitive one.
- EasyTiger_ 5y ago
  Being called to the manager's office is stress-inducing for most people and presumably the person was having issues in their role beforehand and was expecting something serious. To make a joke about such things is beyond callous.

atok1 5y ago

Yeah, that is pretty rough. I've been in similar situations and I tell my self to just try to be a better person today than to dwell over the past. I can't change what I've done but try to do better.

at-fates-hands 5y ago

Used to work sales for a large corporation. One of the fun things the women did on our team was decorate our cubicles when people had birthdays. One morning they were laughing and having a good time decorating of the sales guys cubicle. Their manager walked by and said rather flippantly, "I wouldn't bother doing that, he won't be here to enjoy it."

suyash 5y ago

that's the worst thing to say to anyone, why would you do that?

steve_adams_86 5y ago

Haha, I did this to myself once. I had no idea, and seemingly no one I worked with had any idea, and we laughed a bit as I got up to "go get fired" at my meeting. Then I came back and had to explain that I was actually just fired. Luckily I haven't been fired since, but that "joke" stuck with me.

Lio 5y ago

It’s usually security policy to clean whiteboards after meetings. Many years ago it got to be a standing joke in various places I’ve worked that if someone actually left a digram on a whiteboard, eg some bit of server infrastructure or UML, you’d add extra arrows pointing to “DOWNSIZING” or “EMPLOYEE REDUNDANCIES” bubbles. Then one day I explained the old joke at a new gig and everyone in the room got really serious for a moment. They told me that 6 monthish prior someone from senior management had left plans for the last downsizing round on a whiteboard and lots of people had seen it…