7 ms·

Something is wrong here. Either with the article or with my understanding of Bitcoin wallets: The process of cracking into a Bitcoin wallet is simpler

Something is wrong here. Either with the article or with my understanding of Bitcoin wallets: The process of cracking into a Bitcoin wallet is simpler than it seems, though it requires a deep understanding of how humans choose passwords Isn't it that Bitcoin wallets produce a sequence of 12 random words? And then display those 12 words to the user to memorize? As I understand it, humans are not chosing passwords in this process.

nl 5y ago
From their website: When we can help? .. You wrote down a list of words, and the passphrase is some combination of those words You thought you knew your password, but perhaps it involves different numbers or different capitalization than you remember Also worth noting that the sequence of random words is a pattern that has only been standardised over the last few years. There are plenty of random zip-encoded (etc) files around from before this.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tobyjsullivan 5y ago
It sounds like you’re talking about BIP39 which is a fairly new idea. A Bitcoin wallet is actually a 256-bit random number (the private key) and a corresponding public key (which is derived from the private key). Before BIP39, people would generate private keys by hashing passwords. Which is probably what this article is referring to.
- zapdrive 5y ago
  Actually no, the private keys were generated randomly but the wallets were encrypted with a password. Private keys hashed from regular passwords don't have enough entropy. This encryption made sure that in case a hacker gets access to your wallet file, they can't access it without the password.
  - tobyjsullivan 5y ago
    Sure, that would also work and was likely popular with people who were confident they would not lose the cipher-text. See the "Brain Wallet" tab on bitaddress.org to see how a password-based secret key can work (please don't actually use this). https://www.bitaddress.org/ https://www.bitaddress.org/
prettydeep 5y ago
The wallet seed is a list of 12 words, which can be used by any wallet to restablish ownership. But many wallets allow you to export an encrypted backup, protected by a user generated passphrase. In this case, you don't need the seed.
weinzierl 5y ago
I have been procrastinating on this for a long time, so I might as well ask here: I own a very old wallet.dat[1]. It is from a time when you had to compile some C files to a command line tool which downloaded the whole blockchain [2] to your computer locally. I'm pretty sure I have never had to specify a password (or 12 random words). I remember this because it seemed odd to me back then. What is the easiest way to check if this wallet.dat is intact and what is in there? [3] I'd prefer if it would be possible to check without transferring it to a service (like Coinbase, or similar), but I'm open to that, if it is safe. [1] Actually I have two different versions of it with slightly different sizes and couldn't figure out which is the most recent. [2] I think it must be in my backups as well, but it is probably not of much use. [3] I have a pretty good idea what should be in there and even know the Bitcoin address used. Still I would like to verify independently if my memory serves me right and if I could transfer the Bitcoins if I wanted to.
- antocv 5y ago
  First you make many copies of that file, to different disks and usb-memories. Then you can load one of them into bitcoin-core wallet and you are done. That file should be all you need, it is unencrypted and contains your bitcorns.
  - weinzierl 5y ago
    > First you make many copies of that file, to different disks and usb-memories. This is exactly what I've done with it so far, haha. > Then you can load one of them into bitcoin-core wallet and you are done. Sorry, I'm completely out of touch with Bitcoin by now. In the beginning there was not much info and everything was low risk anyways. Nowadays there is so much noise and I'm never sure what to trust. When you say bitcoin-core, you mean the client I can get from https://bitcoincore.org https://bitcoincore.org? If I understand the instructions correctly I should enable pruning and need to download and store about 6 GiB, but that's it. > That file should be all you need, it is unencrypted and contains your bitcorns. Sounds good...
    - notanzaiiswear 5y ago
notanzaiiswear 5y ago
Those random words are the master seed. Usually you don't enter the master seed to use your wallet. Your wallet encrypts the master seed and unlocks it with a password of your choosing. I suppose they are talking about the password to the wallet, not the Bitcoin keys.
- ArtTimeInvestor 5y ago
  So you have to remember two passwords? The master seed and the wallet password? How is the wallet password created?
  - notanzaiiswear 5y ago
    No you don't have to remember the master seed. You should write it down and hide it somewhere, though. You need it if you lose access to your wallet. (It's a bit like a backup of the encryption keys for your hard disk, if you have enabled disk encryption). The wallet password depends on the wallet of course. I guess you often create it yourself or it may even be optional. I wouldn't recommend that approach for storing large amounts.

nl 5y ago

From their website: When we can help? .. You wrote down a list of words, and the passphrase is some combination of those words You thought you knew your password, but perhaps it involves different numbers or different capitalization than you remember Also worth noting that the sequence of random words is a pattern that has only been standardised over the last few years. There are plenty of random zip-encoded (etc) files around from before this.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tobyjsullivan 5y ago

It sounds like you’re talking about BIP39 which is a fairly new idea. A Bitcoin wallet is actually a 256-bit random number (the private key) and a corresponding public key (which is derived from the private key). Before BIP39, people would generate private keys by hashing passwords. Which is probably what this article is referring to.

zapdrive 5y ago
Actually no, the private keys were generated randomly but the wallets were encrypted with a password. Private keys hashed from regular passwords don't have enough entropy. This encryption made sure that in case a hacker gets access to your wallet file, they can't access it without the password.
- tobyjsullivan 5y ago
  Sure, that would also work and was likely popular with people who were confident they would not lose the cipher-text. See the "Brain Wallet" tab on bitaddress.org to see how a password-based secret key can work (please don't actually use this). https://www.bitaddress.org/ https://www.bitaddress.org/

prettydeep 5y ago

The wallet seed is a list of 12 words, which can be used by any wallet to restablish ownership. But many wallets allow you to export an encrypted backup, protected by a user generated passphrase. In this case, you don't need the seed.

weinzierl 5y ago

I have been procrastinating on this for a long time, so I might as well ask here: I own a very old wallet.dat[1]. It is from a time when you had to compile some C files to a command line tool which downloaded the whole blockchain [2] to your computer locally. I'm pretty sure I have never had to specify a password (or 12 random words). I remember this because it seemed odd to me back then. What is the easiest way to check if this wallet.dat is intact and what is in there? [3] I'd prefer if it would be possible to check without transferring it to a service (like Coinbase, or similar), but I'm open to that, if it is safe. [1] Actually I have two different versions of it with slightly different sizes and couldn't figure out which is the most recent. [2] I think it must be in my backups as well, but it is probably not of much use. [3] I have a pretty good idea what should be in there and even know the Bitcoin address used. Still I would like to verify independently if my memory serves me right and if I could transfer the Bitcoins if I wanted to.

antocv 5y ago
First you make many copies of that file, to different disks and usb-memories. Then you can load one of them into bitcoin-core wallet and you are done. That file should be all you need, it is unencrypted and contains your bitcorns.
- weinzierl 5y ago
  > First you make many copies of that file, to different disks and usb-memories. This is exactly what I've done with it so far, haha. > Then you can load one of them into bitcoin-core wallet and you are done. Sorry, I'm completely out of touch with Bitcoin by now. In the beginning there was not much info and everything was low risk anyways. Nowadays there is so much noise and I'm never sure what to trust. When you say bitcoin-core, you mean the client I can get from https://bitcoincore.org https://bitcoincore.org? If I understand the instructions correctly I should enable pruning and need to download and store about 6 GiB, but that's it. > That file should be all you need, it is unencrypted and contains your bitcorns. Sounds good...
  - notanzaiiswear 5y ago

notanzaiiswear 5y ago

Those random words are the master seed. Usually you don't enter the master seed to use your wallet. Your wallet encrypts the master seed and unlocks it with a password of your choosing. I suppose they are talking about the password to the wallet, not the Bitcoin keys.

ArtTimeInvestor 5y ago
So you have to remember two passwords? The master seed and the wallet password? How is the wallet password created?
- notanzaiiswear 5y ago
  No you don't have to remember the master seed. You should write it down and hide it somewhere, though. You need it if you lose access to your wallet. (It's a bit like a backup of the encryption keys for your hard disk, if you have enabled disk encryption). The wallet password depends on the wallet of course. I guess you often create it yourself or it may even be optional. I wouldn't recommend that approach for storing large amounts.