6 ms·

There's a related phenomenon with young women claiming they're training to be the first person on Mars. They, and usually their parents, carefully craft a media

There's a related phenomenon with young women claiming they're training to be the first person on Mars. They, and usually their parents, carefully craft a media personality where editors and readers fill in the blanks to assume the "astronaut in training" is part of NASA. That the agency exerts little control over its name and logo makes this much easier to accomplish. If a media organization goes through the effort of contacting NASA, they will be told that the "astronaut in training" is not affiliated with NASA. That these young women (for some reason I've yet to see this media manipulation work for young men) attend Space Camp gives them something with NASA on it they can point to so others will make the erroneous assumption they're in NASA astronaut training. As far as I can tell, nothing they're doing is illegal. Anyone can say they're training to go to Mars. Anyone can buy NASA t-shirts and any child can attend Space Camp. NASA doesn't regulate the use of its name in twitter and Instagram account names. In most cases it appears that the media either doesn't look very deeply into verifying these people are who they're presenting themselves to be or are willing participants in deceiving the public themselves. It makes for a nice article or fills airtime to have on a teenager in a flight suit covered in NASA patches talking about inspiring other youth to follow their path to becoming an astronaut. But at least the young people in the article and the ones posing as "aspiring astronauts" have more common sense than the young lady who lost her internship with NASA because she was slinging profanities at a member of the agency's advisory board while celebrating her appointment.

inopinatus 5y ago
I’m trying to think of a more asinine and performative reason than revoking a job offer because the youthful recipient flung a few profanities around in celebration of the moment. This is how you preserve a monoculture, folks. In followup, the advisory board member in question, evidently not such a stick-up-the-ass authoritarian as NASA’s decision makers, was dismayed by the revocation not the exuberance.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >In followup, the advisory board member in question, evidently not such a stick-up-the-ass authoritarian as NASA’s decision makers, was dismayed by the revocation not the exuberance. Yep, I did a quick Google too. Full quote: "I learned she had lost her offer for an internship with NASA. This I had nothing to do with nor could I since I do not hire and fire at the agency or have any say on employment whatsoever. As it turned out, it was due to the NASA hashtag her friends used that called the agency's attention to it long after my comments were gone," Hickam wrote in a blog post Tuesday. Hickam also shared that he is "certain she deserves a position in the aerospace industry and I'm doing all I can to secure her one that will be better than she lost," and has "talked to the folks that had to do with her internship and made absolutely certain that there will be no black mark on her record."
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I sent HH an email out of the blue a few years ago with my thoughts on why the space shuttle was not a good design, and he was kind enough to write a nice reply. So I've always thought well of him.
    - effingwewt 5y ago
      Things like him replying are what fosters future scientists/thinkers IMO. Passion should be nurtured. Would it be ok to ask you your thoughts about the space shuttle? Is that weird? I really apologize if so.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        I told him that obviously the critical expense of getting to orbit was weight. (Of course, I didn't actually tell him anything he didn't know.) Wings, rudder and landing gear are heavy and expensive and are only useful for the last few seconds of flight. All that dead weight did was subtract from what the machine could do in orbit. I said the only thing one really needed to bring back was the crew, and an Apollo capsule would do just fine for that. He agreed, and said he'd argued similarly. Musk had an even better idea. Bring the ordinary booster rocket back without wings, rudder, or landing gear by using a bit of extra fuel at the last moment to kiss the landing pad rather than smash it. That empty tin balloon of a booster isn't going to fall that fast or need that much fuel to do it.
        effingwewt 5y ago
        Right on, I appreciate it. I can't believe even HH was arguing for this stuff and NASA was just like 'eh'. I don't like Elon, his methods, or his companies, but I am grateful for the progress his engineers have wrought! Also have you seen the launches in person? Here we have some that look like glowing floating balls of plasma. When SpaceX was first doing tests everyone was outside thinking it was aliens or a bomb, it was that far outside anything people had ever seen before.
- kbenson 5y ago
  One the one hand it's sad, on the other hand I understand why they did it. Astronauts are, for better or worse, the public face and PR of NASA, which is a an agency subject to social and political winds of the times, but has for the most part placed itself apolitically and kept astronauts as heroes that both sides can agree on (as long as we can forget a short period where adult diapers where in the public consciousness). The thing that makes it such and achievement (that it's a select group of exceptional people) is also the thing that puts extra expectations on how you can act or what you can be involved in. It might be better if it were not that way, but the reality is that astronauts are not chosen based on skill and capability alone.
  - inopinatus 5y ago
    Perhaps they're chosen for their ability to cuss like a sailor in the cockpit? (John Young and Gene Cernan both served in the navy) https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap10fj/as10-day1-pt2-earthorbit-rev1.html https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap10fj/as10-day1-pt2-earthorbit... Thomas Stafford drops plenty of F-bombs in the Apollo–Soyuz mission transcripts too, which are faithfully recorded in the NASA archives for posterity.
    - bumby 5y ago
      I like these stories, but I think this is more a hallmark of a bygone era. If I remember correctly, the average age of NASA during Apollo was mid-twenties. Now (at least in certain orgs within the agency) it’s nearly double that
      - lupire 5y ago
        During Apollo, twenty somethings used far less crude language in public than peoplw due now.
    - kbenson 5y ago
      Not a lot you can do once they're already in space, yeah? I bet you there was some PR person at NASA cussing them out when they heard/saw those too. As for being faithfully archived, well we already have enough moon landing conspiracists without giving them more "evidence" of stuff being hidden during space missions.
redis_mlc 5y ago
There was a recent in-depth thread on avweb about teen girls trying to fly around the world in small planes. Besides the ones who have died (Dubroff, etc.), it turns out none had the training to reasonably attempt the flight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff Besides the high risk to themselves, those flights involve SAR from various nations and often flow and landings at large airports with airliners, which those entities never asked to get involved with. As an aside, the US Navy ended up searching for Amelia Earhart, so that shows the disruption of these flights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Earhart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Earhart
somedangedname 5y ago
Yeah, would you look at that. One of them got a BS Forbes article written about herself. This is wild. What do you think the deal is here? Social climber parents who believe their own BS? Kid wants to make it as an influencer and this is just a handy, vacant persona to step into?
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Two of the most prominent of them started when they were pre-teens so I'm guessing a parent was pushing them, perhaps to live their dreams vicariously though their child. But as they got older, it should have been clear to the teens, especially when they got to college, that they were part of a deception. Guess once you're on the world stage, it's hard to step out of the spotlight and go back to being just another face in the crowd, especially if you've never been just another face in the crowd. As the media's attention moves on to someone else, there's a good chance they're going to suffer some crushing psychological harm.
  - somedangedname 5y ago
    Yeah, I'm sure there's some sort of psychological reckoning to be had there.
arnaudsm 5y ago
The most famous example being Alyssa Carson [1]. These frauds exist for a reason, there's an huge (and legitimate) demand for covering women in space. I guess Peggy Whitson isn't sexy enough be on cover of magasines, so journalists need to find instagrammable faces. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2019/07/13/meet-the-worlds-youngest-astronaut-in-training-designer-of-the-first-ever-space-luggage/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2019/07/13/mee...
- rhcom2 5y ago
  I think Sian Proctor and Hayley Arceneaux actually would count as the latest American women in space and they were just on the cover of Time.
- georgecmu 5y ago
  She (her parents?) monetized it well: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-carson-87b874152/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-carson-87b874152/ I like how her list of accomplishments starts with "witnessing 3 Space Shuttle launches.": https://nasablueberry.com/about/ https://nasablueberry.com/about/ Stunning.
  - yellow_lead 5y ago
    At least she has a writing career to fall back on. "Always follow your dream and don’t let anyone take it from you.” — Alyssa Carson
- aliswe 5y ago
  > A visual prototype of Horizn ONE, the world's first space luggage, due out in 2030 This is too much ........
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    They would release it sooner, but the fusion minireactor is not ready yet.
catillac 5y ago
I have also noticed this. One in particular who I followed because they posted a bunch of really excellent astronomy photos and had an exuberance for space flight recently “got accepted” to “go to Mars” and now they “live on a faux mars base in an inhospitable climate” in order to “train for life on Mars.” It’s unclear if it’s real or fake, but their “qualifications” seem to be number of social media followers, so it doesn’t seem actually real. I’m not complaining, cool story and photos, but I’m sure it’s all performative so I follow it as one would a cool fiction podcast or something.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Sounds like that particular person has their love of astronomy to fall back on. For those whose entire identities are wrapped up in being an astronaut that they have little to no chance of being, it's going to be rough when the spotlight moves elsewhere.
Animats 5y ago
NASA has far more astronauts than it needs. During the Shuttle era, they had about 150 and they were busy. Today, they have about 44. A few of them get to go to the Space Station on Space-X rockets. Right now, there are no astronauts in training, although they are starting a new group in December from people who applied early this year. Not because they need more, but because they need younger ones. If you want to go to Mars, you're probably better off going to Space-X. Russia is sending a film director and actress to the ISS on October 5th.

inopinatus 5y ago

I’m trying to think of a more asinine and performative reason than revoking a job offer because the youthful recipient flung a few profanities around in celebration of the moment. This is how you preserve a monoculture, folks. In followup, the advisory board member in question, evidently not such a stick-up-the-ass authoritarian as NASA’s decision makers, was dismayed by the revocation not the exuberance.

AussieWog93 5y ago
>In followup, the advisory board member in question, evidently not such a stick-up-the-ass authoritarian as NASA’s decision makers, was dismayed by the revocation not the exuberance. Yep, I did a quick Google too. Full quote: "I learned she had lost her offer for an internship with NASA. This I had nothing to do with nor could I since I do not hire and fire at the agency or have any say on employment whatsoever. As it turned out, it was due to the NASA hashtag her friends used that called the agency's attention to it long after my comments were gone," Hickam wrote in a blog post Tuesday. Hickam also shared that he is "certain she deserves a position in the aerospace industry and I'm doing all I can to secure her one that will be better than she lost," and has "talked to the folks that had to do with her internship and made absolutely certain that there will be no black mark on her record."
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I sent HH an email out of the blue a few years ago with my thoughts on why the space shuttle was not a good design, and he was kind enough to write a nice reply. So I've always thought well of him.
  - effingwewt 5y ago
    Things like him replying are what fosters future scientists/thinkers IMO. Passion should be nurtured. Would it be ok to ask you your thoughts about the space shuttle? Is that weird? I really apologize if so.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      I told him that obviously the critical expense of getting to orbit was weight. (Of course, I didn't actually tell him anything he didn't know.) Wings, rudder and landing gear are heavy and expensive and are only useful for the last few seconds of flight. All that dead weight did was subtract from what the machine could do in orbit. I said the only thing one really needed to bring back was the crew, and an Apollo capsule would do just fine for that. He agreed, and said he'd argued similarly. Musk had an even better idea. Bring the ordinary booster rocket back without wings, rudder, or landing gear by using a bit of extra fuel at the last moment to kiss the landing pad rather than smash it. That empty tin balloon of a booster isn't going to fall that fast or need that much fuel to do it.
      - effingwewt 5y ago
        Right on, I appreciate it. I can't believe even HH was arguing for this stuff and NASA was just like 'eh'. I don't like Elon, his methods, or his companies, but I am grateful for the progress his engineers have wrought! Also have you seen the launches in person? Here we have some that look like glowing floating balls of plasma. When SpaceX was first doing tests everyone was outside thinking it was aliens or a bomb, it was that far outside anything people had ever seen before.
kbenson 5y ago
One the one hand it's sad, on the other hand I understand why they did it. Astronauts are, for better or worse, the public face and PR of NASA, which is a an agency subject to social and political winds of the times, but has for the most part placed itself apolitically and kept astronauts as heroes that both sides can agree on (as long as we can forget a short period where adult diapers where in the public consciousness). The thing that makes it such and achievement (that it's a select group of exceptional people) is also the thing that puts extra expectations on how you can act or what you can be involved in. It might be better if it were not that way, but the reality is that astronauts are not chosen based on skill and capability alone.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  Perhaps they're chosen for their ability to cuss like a sailor in the cockpit? (John Young and Gene Cernan both served in the navy) https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap10fj/as10-day1-pt2-earthorbit-rev1.html https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap10fj/as10-day1-pt2-earthorbit... Thomas Stafford drops plenty of F-bombs in the Apollo–Soyuz mission transcripts too, which are faithfully recorded in the NASA archives for posterity.
  - bumby 5y ago
    I like these stories, but I think this is more a hallmark of a bygone era. If I remember correctly, the average age of NASA during Apollo was mid-twenties. Now (at least in certain orgs within the agency) it’s nearly double that
    - lupire 5y ago
      During Apollo, twenty somethings used far less crude language in public than peoplw due now.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    Not a lot you can do once they're already in space, yeah? I bet you there was some PR person at NASA cussing them out when they heard/saw those too. As for being faithfully archived, well we already have enough moon landing conspiracists without giving them more "evidence" of stuff being hidden during space missions.

redis_mlc 5y ago

There was a recent in-depth thread on avweb about teen girls trying to fly around the world in small planes. Besides the ones who have died (Dubroff, etc.), it turns out none had the training to reasonably attempt the flight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff Besides the high risk to themselves, those flights involve SAR from various nations and often flow and landings at large airports with airliners, which those entities never asked to get involved with. As an aside, the US Navy ended up searching for Amelia Earhart, so that shows the disruption of these flights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Earhart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Earhart

somedangedname 5y ago

Yeah, would you look at that. One of them got a BS Forbes article written about herself. This is wild. What do you think the deal is here? Social climber parents who believe their own BS? Kid wants to make it as an influencer and this is just a handy, vacant persona to step into?

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Two of the most prominent of them started when they were pre-teens so I'm guessing a parent was pushing them, perhaps to live their dreams vicariously though their child. But as they got older, it should have been clear to the teens, especially when they got to college, that they were part of a deception. Guess once you're on the world stage, it's hard to step out of the spotlight and go back to being just another face in the crowd, especially if you've never been just another face in the crowd. As the media's attention moves on to someone else, there's a good chance they're going to suffer some crushing psychological harm.
- somedangedname 5y ago
  Yeah, I'm sure there's some sort of psychological reckoning to be had there.

arnaudsm 5y ago

The most famous example being Alyssa Carson [1]. These frauds exist for a reason, there's an huge (and legitimate) demand for covering women in space. I guess Peggy Whitson isn't sexy enough be on cover of magasines, so journalists need to find instagrammable faces. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2019/07/13/meet-the-worlds-youngest-astronaut-in-training-designer-of-the-first-ever-space-luggage/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2019/07/13/mee...

rhcom2 5y ago
I think Sian Proctor and Hayley Arceneaux actually would count as the latest American women in space and they were just on the cover of Time.
georgecmu 5y ago
She (her parents?) monetized it well: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-carson-87b874152/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-carson-87b874152/ I like how her list of accomplishments starts with "witnessing 3 Space Shuttle launches.": https://nasablueberry.com/about/ https://nasablueberry.com/about/ Stunning.
- yellow_lead 5y ago
  At least she has a writing career to fall back on. "Always follow your dream and don’t let anyone take it from you.” — Alyssa Carson
aliswe 5y ago
> A visual prototype of Horizn ONE, the world's first space luggage, due out in 2030 This is too much ........
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  They would release it sooner, but the fusion minireactor is not ready yet.

catillac 5y ago

I have also noticed this. One in particular who I followed because they posted a bunch of really excellent astronomy photos and had an exuberance for space flight recently “got accepted” to “go to Mars” and now they “live on a faux mars base in an inhospitable climate” in order to “train for life on Mars.” It’s unclear if it’s real or fake, but their “qualifications” seem to be number of social media followers, so it doesn’t seem actually real. I’m not complaining, cool story and photos, but I’m sure it’s all performative so I follow it as one would a cool fiction podcast or something.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Sounds like that particular person has their love of astronomy to fall back on. For those whose entire identities are wrapped up in being an astronaut that they have little to no chance of being, it's going to be rough when the spotlight moves elsewhere.

Animats 5y ago

NASA has far more astronauts than it needs. During the Shuttle era, they had about 150 and they were busy. Today, they have about 44. A few of them get to go to the Space Station on Space-X rockets. Right now, there are no astronauts in training, although they are starting a new group in December from people who applied early this year. Not because they need more, but because they need younger ones. If you want to go to Mars, you're probably better off going to Space-X. Russia is sending a film director and actress to the ISS on October 5th.