3 ms·

> which got us Trump and the current antivax movement I think that you are stretching it a bit here. Claiming that individualism is responsible for that seems

> which got us Trump and the current antivax movement I think that you are stretching it a bit here. Claiming that individualism is responsible for that seems unsubstantiated.

notriddle 5y ago
It’s a stretch to blame “absolute rights” for Trump’s election. That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. The anti-maskers? The only reason those guys think they have a case is exactly because they think bodily autonomy has no limits.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  > That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. It can be, but it probably shouldn't be.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > ...they think bodily autonomy has no limits. ...they think THEIR bodily autonomy has no limits -- not even where sane people would see that it has to be limited to not encroach on OTHER PEOPLE'S bodily autonomy. There, FTFY.
  - h_anna_h 5y ago
    This also seems to be bi-partisan sadly.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      I'm not so sure about that. Stands to reason, AFAICS, that "MY freedoms (and screw yours)!" ideologically resonates more on the right than the left: The whole left-right dichotomy is one of ~ "my freedoms above all" vs "freedoms for all, balanced with responsibility for all".
      - h_anna_h 5y ago
        I think that this is extremely simplistic. For example it does not account for individualist anarchism or the collectivist "for our country/nation/race" pushed by various fascist governments.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        I can't see how "doesn't cover absolutely all corner cases" equals "extremely simplistic". I'm fairly sure that in broad terms, "left / right" covers the political spectrum the absolute majority of people inhabit. Your objection feels like futile quibbling to me.
        h_anna_h 5y ago
        These are not really corner cases but whatever man, you believe what you want.
myrandomcomment 5y ago
The problem with the 1st Amendment is that it protects all speech (in general, and if you quote yelling "fire" in a crowded theater you have not read the case law) no matter how stupid that speech is. The issue is that anything else could be a slippery slope to authoritarianism. Drawing that line is hard. Education is the key here however some people seems to be to stupid to be educated.

> which got us Trump and the current antivax movement I think that you are stretching it a bit here. Claiming that individualism is responsible for that seems unsubstantiated.

notriddle 5y ago

It’s a stretch to blame “absolute rights” for Trump’s election. That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. The anti-maskers? The only reason those guys think they have a case is exactly because they think bodily autonomy has no limits.

robertlagrant 5y ago
> That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. It can be, but it probably shouldn't be.
CRConrad 5y ago
> ...they think bodily autonomy has no limits. ...they think THEIR bodily autonomy has no limits -- not even where sane people would see that it has to be limited to not encroach on OTHER PEOPLE'S bodily autonomy. There, FTFY.
- h_anna_h 5y ago
  This also seems to be bi-partisan sadly.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    I'm not so sure about that. Stands to reason, AFAICS, that "MY freedoms (and screw yours)!" ideologically resonates more on the right than the left: The whole left-right dichotomy is one of ~ "my freedoms above all" vs "freedoms for all, balanced with responsibility for all".
    - h_anna_h 5y ago
      I think that this is extremely simplistic. For example it does not account for individualist anarchism or the collectivist "for our country/nation/race" pushed by various fascist governments.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        I can't see how "doesn't cover absolutely all corner cases" equals "extremely simplistic". I'm fairly sure that in broad terms, "left / right" covers the political spectrum the absolute majority of people inhabit. Your objection feels like futile quibbling to me.
        h_anna_h 5y ago
        These are not really corner cases but whatever man, you believe what you want.

myrandomcomment 5y ago

The problem with the 1st Amendment is that it protects all speech (in general, and if you quote yelling "fire" in a crowded theater you have not read the case law) no matter how stupid that speech is. The issue is that anything else could be a slippery slope to authoritarianism. Drawing that line is hard. Education is the key here however some people seems to be to stupid to be educated.