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In Texas, the county puts a value on your house that then determines how much you pay in taxes. Usually they just kinda eyeball it. The homeowner is allowed to

In Texas, the county puts a value on your house that then determines how much you pay in taxes. Usually they just kinda eyeball it. The homeowner is allowed to protest and say "hey that's super wrong, I protest!" It's a pretty broken system tbh. We are property tax agents that homeowners hire to do that "protesting" process for them. IF we save them money, we get paid a percentage of the realized savings. If we save them nothing, we get paid $0.00, so it's a pretty compelling offer. As for conversions, it's extremely hard to track because it's physical mail. But yes, the campaign did quite well!

hellbannedguy 5y ago
That is a weird way to tax property. I still don't understand why you needed this autograph pencil?
- aarondf 5y ago
  It is, I agree. We used them to write the addresses on the envelopes.
- michaelt 5y ago
  > I still don't understand why you needed this autograph pencil? To trick people into opening their junk mail, because they think it's a letter from a human.
  - hellbannedguy 5y ago
    Ah yes. I have gotten these before, but not produced this way. The ones I got looked like they were written by an underpaid employee. They have had signature machines for years though. The Kennedy's used them a lot. The only thing I would experiment with this project is adding significant error, and randomness to the writing. It would look more realistic? On a personal note, when I get these (Anderson Painting likes this approach.); I throw away the ad away immediately, or if printed on good stock paper--I save to pick up dust.
    - mbiondi 5y ago
      Pick up dust, that's an interesting comment. How does stock paper help with that?
      - Kliment 5y ago
        Not sure if it's the same thing, but heavy cardstock is great at collecting dust off a flat surface - for some reason it sticks to the edge.
- tinco 5y ago
  Is it? How do other states do it? Here in the Netherlands it's the same, roughly judged based off average values in the neighborhood.
  - hamaluik 5y ago
    Same in Canada.. always seemed fair enough to me and I assumed it was standard but now I'm curious how many other ways they are and how they shake out.
    - LanceH 5y ago
      As for fair: There is little thought given to how much the individual house is worth, rather it relies on comp sales in the area. For example, a fully renovated house might go for $500k, but another in the neighborhood with the same number of bedrooms and bathrooms in a less desirable location (say the entrance to the neighborhood) might only be able to sell for $400k. It is also very common for the adjustments upward to be far quicker than adjustments downward. Then there are definitely examples out there of the city appraised value being driven by desired tax revenue and becoming detached from the reality of sale prices.
  - analog31 5y ago
    In my locale, the assessment is pegged to the sale price, so if you buy a house for $X, the assessed value becomes $X. The city assessor also inspects the house shortly after the sale. In an area with a lot of turnover, the assessments tend to be fairly accurate. A major renovation (requiring a permit) will result in a re-assessment. In subsequent years, they're supposed to apply a formula, but of course "drift" can occur. And then there's an appeal process.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      > A major renovation (requiring a permit) will result in a re-assessment. Doesn't this just incentivize people to not pull permits on major work? In California contractors often try to talk you out of getting a permit because it's more of a hassle for them, so clearly the contractors aren't liable for doing unpermitted work...
- jameshart 5y ago
  It's a pretty common way to tax property. All a town or county is looking for is a somewhat equitable way to split up the bill for the total tax income it wants to collect each year. All that matters is that every property's relative value is reasonably fairly assessed, and the tax rate is then set based on the amount of funds the local government budgets, with the portion each household pays being weighted based on assessed value. All that happens if an individual homeowner argues down their appraisal is that everybody else's taxes go up by a bit. If everybody successfully argued their house was 10% overvalued, all the assessments would go down, the tax rate would go up, and they'd all be right back where they started for tax bills.
felixr 5y ago
I don't think you answered the questions: Why was handwriting necessary? Are people more likely to read your mail if it has a handwritten envelope? My question would: Isn't it faster to just have some people write the addresses per hand? ... I would take "this is cooler" as an answer :-)
- aarondf 5y ago
  > Are people more likely to read your mail if it has a handwritten envelope? That is the theory! > My question would: Isn't it faster to just have some people write the addresses per hand? Undoubtedly, yes! Our plan was to try to make it a service pre-covid, but then we decided to double down on our main product (doing tax protests). There are lots of services out there that do this, but mostly they do low volume, high cost stuff - https://www.handwrytten.com/ https://www.handwrytten.com/ - https://www.scribeless.co/ https://www.scribeless.co/ - https://roboquill.io/ https://roboquill.io/ - https://handwrittenmail.com/ https://handwrittenmail.com/ - https://letterfriend.com/ https://letterfriend.com/ Lots of stuff like thank you notes, etc. We just wanted the addresses on the outside!
  - tomcam 5y ago
    I LOVE your project and delighted in reading about it. But your offer is so compelling I doubt you need the fake handwriting.
manquer 5y ago
It shouldn't be that hard to track conversion rates?, You could run A/B tests on randomized populations, to see relative performance of conventional methods to yours, keeping other factors like packaging, contents of the leter same ? You could even probably track basis demographic/ economic groups given that you are tracking home value, you have both property tax and location data with which to control for. Whether you should do is a different question
- aarondf 5y ago
  Ah yeah I guess I shouldn't have said it that way. I'll rephrase: "It's hard for me, as the individual developer at a company, to spend enough time to devise a system to adequately A/B test the production and distribution of physical mail as compared to link clicks."
ggggtez 5y ago
So, these are spam letters to people that currently have no business relationship with you? I hope you go bankrupt.
jccalhoun 5y ago
So the tax equivalent of the lawyers that advertise on tv that they don't get paid unless you win.
- aarondf 5y ago
  Yes, in the sense that we don't get paid unless we win. No, in the sense that we don't advertise on TV and we don't call ourselves The Texas Hammer [1] 1: https://twitter.com/JIMADLERLAWFIRM https://twitter.com/JIMADLERLAWFIRM

hellbannedguy 5y ago

That is a weird way to tax property. I still don't understand why you needed this autograph pencil?

aarondf 5y ago
It is, I agree. We used them to write the addresses on the envelopes.
michaelt 5y ago
> I still don't understand why you needed this autograph pencil? To trick people into opening their junk mail, because they think it's a letter from a human.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Ah yes. I have gotten these before, but not produced this way. The ones I got looked like they were written by an underpaid employee. They have had signature machines for years though. The Kennedy's used them a lot. The only thing I would experiment with this project is adding significant error, and randomness to the writing. It would look more realistic? On a personal note, when I get these (Anderson Painting likes this approach.); I throw away the ad away immediately, or if printed on good stock paper--I save to pick up dust.
  - mbiondi 5y ago
    Pick up dust, that's an interesting comment. How does stock paper help with that?
    - Kliment 5y ago
      Not sure if it's the same thing, but heavy cardstock is great at collecting dust off a flat surface - for some reason it sticks to the edge.
tinco 5y ago
Is it? How do other states do it? Here in the Netherlands it's the same, roughly judged based off average values in the neighborhood.
- hamaluik 5y ago
  Same in Canada.. always seemed fair enough to me and I assumed it was standard but now I'm curious how many other ways they are and how they shake out.
  - LanceH 5y ago
    As for fair: There is little thought given to how much the individual house is worth, rather it relies on comp sales in the area. For example, a fully renovated house might go for $500k, but another in the neighborhood with the same number of bedrooms and bathrooms in a less desirable location (say the entrance to the neighborhood) might only be able to sell for $400k. It is also very common for the adjustments upward to be far quicker than adjustments downward. Then there are definitely examples out there of the city appraised value being driven by desired tax revenue and becoming detached from the reality of sale prices.
- analog31 5y ago
  In my locale, the assessment is pegged to the sale price, so if you buy a house for $X, the assessed value becomes $X. The city assessor also inspects the house shortly after the sale. In an area with a lot of turnover, the assessments tend to be fairly accurate. A major renovation (requiring a permit) will result in a re-assessment. In subsequent years, they're supposed to apply a formula, but of course "drift" can occur. And then there's an appeal process.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    > A major renovation (requiring a permit) will result in a re-assessment. Doesn't this just incentivize people to not pull permits on major work? In California contractors often try to talk you out of getting a permit because it's more of a hassle for them, so clearly the contractors aren't liable for doing unpermitted work...
jameshart 5y ago
It's a pretty common way to tax property. All a town or county is looking for is a somewhat equitable way to split up the bill for the total tax income it wants to collect each year. All that matters is that every property's relative value is reasonably fairly assessed, and the tax rate is then set based on the amount of funds the local government budgets, with the portion each household pays being weighted based on assessed value. All that happens if an individual homeowner argues down their appraisal is that everybody else's taxes go up by a bit. If everybody successfully argued their house was 10% overvalued, all the assessments would go down, the tax rate would go up, and they'd all be right back where they started for tax bills.

felixr 5y ago

I don't think you answered the questions: Why was handwriting necessary? Are people more likely to read your mail if it has a handwritten envelope? My question would: Isn't it faster to just have some people write the addresses per hand? ... I would take "this is cooler" as an answer :-)

aarondf 5y ago
> Are people more likely to read your mail if it has a handwritten envelope? That is the theory! > My question would: Isn't it faster to just have some people write the addresses per hand? Undoubtedly, yes! Our plan was to try to make it a service pre-covid, but then we decided to double down on our main product (doing tax protests). There are lots of services out there that do this, but mostly they do low volume, high cost stuff - https://www.handwrytten.com/ https://www.handwrytten.com/ - https://www.scribeless.co/ https://www.scribeless.co/ - https://roboquill.io/ https://roboquill.io/ - https://handwrittenmail.com/ https://handwrittenmail.com/ - https://letterfriend.com/ https://letterfriend.com/ Lots of stuff like thank you notes, etc. We just wanted the addresses on the outside!
- tomcam 5y ago
  I LOVE your project and delighted in reading about it. But your offer is so compelling I doubt you need the fake handwriting.

manquer 5y ago

It shouldn't be that hard to track conversion rates?, You could run A/B tests on randomized populations, to see relative performance of conventional methods to yours, keeping other factors like packaging, contents of the leter same ? You could even probably track basis demographic/ economic groups given that you are tracking home value, you have both property tax and location data with which to control for. Whether you should do is a different question

aarondf 5y ago
Ah yeah I guess I shouldn't have said it that way. I'll rephrase: "It's hard for me, as the individual developer at a company, to spend enough time to devise a system to adequately A/B test the production and distribution of physical mail as compared to link clicks."

ggggtez 5y ago

So, these are spam letters to people that currently have no business relationship with you? I hope you go bankrupt.

jccalhoun 5y ago

So the tax equivalent of the lawyers that advertise on tv that they don't get paid unless you win.

aarondf 5y ago
Yes, in the sense that we don't get paid unless we win. No, in the sense that we don't advertise on TV and we don't call ourselves The Texas Hammer [1] 1: https://twitter.com/JIMADLERLAWFIRM https://twitter.com/JIMADLERLAWFIRM