7 ms·

How to make $80k per month on the Apple App Store (2017)

113 points by svenfaw 5y ago

TheJoeMan 5y ago
If anyone here needs ideas for legitimate apps, read the reviews for HotSchedules which is where managers post minimum wage workers’ schedules and each worker is forced to pay $3 for a terrible, terrible app.
- idkwhojamesis 5y ago
  is where manage
fxtentacle 5y ago
Scam tech illiterate people into an expensive subscription. Kind of the same as all those "free" to play games.
- raman162 5y ago
  Well there are the two types of "free" to play games, the ones that are malware and the ones that are "Pay" to win. With the latter, I think people are mostly aware of how much they spend in the "Pay" to win games even if it's just for cosmetic items. The most common argument I hear is that it's no different than spending $3.00 on a coffee or a snack and it gives roughly the same amount of value, it's just a digital asset.
  - fxtentacle 5y ago
    From what I've heard, a big issue is kids playing on their parents' phones and just clicking OK to all the in-app coins that they need to continue playing. And then at the end of the month, the parents receive a $2000 credit card bill and are shocked. Here's an example of a "game" that is basically gambling for kids: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-master/id406889139 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-master/id406889139 And here's the class action lawsuit where I heard about it: https://www.classaction.org/news/coin-master-mobile-casino-game-tilted-too-far-in-favor-of-the-house-class-action-says https://www.classaction.org/news/coin-master-mobile-casino-g... Here's another game that looks like it was for kids, but is actually a "social casino": https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-kingdom/id1462733996 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-kingdom/id1462733996 Or this one: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/piggy-boom/id1129050711 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/piggy-boom/id1129050711 "I am completely hooked on this game! I absolutely love it! I spend more money on this game than I do my own self! It’s worth it though!" Also, this article is excellent: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/monetizing-children https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/monetizing-children "the design technique that Zynga describes as “fun pain”, the idea is to inflict some very uncomfortable situation on a player in their game, and then offer to remove that situation in return for money. While the vast majority of adults will make the assessment that it is in their best interest to not spend the money and to just exit the application that is designed to hurt them, it is biologically harder to come to this conclusion if the decision maker is a child." "retailers will sell Zynga time cards for cash to children of any age, without the presence of an adult"
- pubutil 5y ago
  It looks to me that this is a similar concept to those malicious “virus alert” websites that instruct you to call someone in India. Then (after some fearmongering, and maybe bullying) they commandeer your computer, run netstat, and tell you that you have viruses that only an expensive yearly subscription can fix. I also have to wonder how many people are outright ignorant about iOS’s subscription cancellation menus. The menu is kind of hidden away in the Settings app. Not only that, but in my experience, subscriptions through iOS show up as charges from Apple on bank statements; no indication of what you were charged for. Hell, even payments to the Apple Store for physical products show almost the same nomenclature, with no indication that it’s a different type of purchase.
- void_mint 5y ago
  > Kind of the same as all those "free" to play games. Free to play isn't a scam. They're free to play. You can choose to spend money if you'd like.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Yes, but without the word "play" (because you can't play it without paying for it), it becomes "free to", which doesn't make any sense, or if you DO pay money, it becomes "to play" which sounds like toupee. Which is another kind of scam, if you think about it. Free to play is a scam if you need to pay to actually win, except that relies on Apple's review process being any good, but as we see here, that's clearly not true.
    - void_mint 5y ago
      > Yes, but without the word "play" (because you can't play it without paying for it), You can play any F2P game without paying for it. > it becomes "free to", which doesn't make any sense, or if you DO pay money, it becomes "to play" which sounds like toupee. Which is another kind of scam, This doesn't make any sense. > Free to play is a scam if you need to pay to actually win You don't. > except that relies on Apple's review process being any good, but as we see here, that's clearly not true. F2P means it does not cost money to play. All F2P games allow you to play without paying money. These complaints are strange, but definitely founded in some sort of confusion. I would encourage you to downloaded pretty much any F2P game - you'll find you can absolutely play it right away!
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  Kind of like AT&T’s “Unlimited” plans. AT&T just has better lawyers.
amelius 5y ago
How many devs are ramen-profitable on the App Store versus how many devs tried to be? I always have the suspicion that Apple wants us to believe that the App Store can make any honest, hard-working dev filthy rich, when in reality you need to be extremely lucky to get more money out of it than you put in. (Please don't reply with anecdotes. I want statistics!)
ezy 5y ago
The elephant in the room is that Apple must already know this is happening. It's not like they need a viral blog article or a user flag uprising to tell them this -- It's been obvious to most technologically saavy users who own iphones -- and it must be 10x as obvious to someone who works at Apple on the actual App Store . They're just choosing to do nothing about it because it's advantageous to them. Period. But what else is new when large sums of money are involved...
- the_only_law 5y ago
  Ofc stuff like this is allowed but when I have a clever idea for a useful app its painfully made clear that it would never get passed the guidelines.
- raman162 5y ago
  Yes but what pushes the knife further into the gut is how apple claims it has a strict app review process to protect iOS users when they have obviously done a poor job here. They were quick to catch epic games bypassing their payment system but can't catch a very obvious scam that made it to their top 10 grossing app list.
  - civilized 5y ago
    Isn't that how Apple justifies their ridiculous 30% cut? The herculean effort they make to keep the app store safe? Turns out they just give scammers a platform to defraud the vulnerable at scale.
librish 5y ago
This seems like a really big counterpoint to the corner stone of Apple's "30% is reasonable" take - that the App Store is a safe and curated experience. It's one thing for a one off app to slip through, but to have it make its way to the top charts with so many positive reviews is a really, really bad look.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  30% is not nearly enough money! Just look at all this shit that gets through! /s
- mkhpalm 5y ago
  I find it interesting that scamming regular people out of money isn't going to get an app banned from the App Store. Contrast that with the many apps we've all heard of that Apple does ban.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Never mind the app, if Apple were smart, they'd punitively ban the developer and everybody associated with it from being on the App store forever. Or some number of years, anyway
robertwt7 5y ago
How did they got through apple review process? Heck the review process is super strict that I’m being very careful for iOS app but these guys seems to know the way around it
- imron 5y ago
  This was my thought too. I have written a number of apps available in the App Store, and I’m amazed an app like this could pass review.
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  You are being careful because you care if you get rejected and you care about the reputation of your app and developer account. Scammers can just keep throwing accounts and apps at this until something sticks long enough to make a fortune.
- Linkd 5y ago
  All is takes is a feature flag that completely changes your apps functionality post approval [or better yet, when viewed from within Apples network..] Of course this will get you removed if caught, but throw enough attempts and you'll get to these results.
  - dwighttk 5y ago
    How did they write an app that does what the text says enough that the reviewer passed it? The whole virus scanner on iOS category should be looked at, they are all questionable at best.
- ericmcer 5y ago
  Yeah seriously, I remember them flagging my app for using a JS library that had security vulnerabilities. But then they don't grep for some variant of "agree to pay/subscribe $X?" buried in the app.
yen223 5y ago
The article sources a lot of the revenue numbers from Sensor Tower. How reliable are the numbers from Sensor Tower?
dwighttk 5y ago
(Originally 2017)
- dang 5y ago
  Updated. Thanks!
dang 5y ago
Past threads: How to Make $80k per Month on the Apple App Store (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19416740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19416740 - March 2019 (17 comments) $80k/month App Store Scam - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14526156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14526156 - June 2017 (195 comments)
- Maursault 5y ago
  Thx for posting. The outrage is still fresh. Robert Mueller is wasting his time on President Trump when he should be investigating Ngan Vo Thi Thuy! Apple better do something about this 4 years ago!
alecthomas 5y ago
I just did a quick search for "Virus Scanner" and this was in the first 10 results: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/phone-protection/id1282949977 https://apps.apple.com/au/app/phone-protection/id1282949977 Pretty clearly fake reviews, what it provides seems like a complete scam, in app subscriptions - ticks all the boxes from that article! Four years on and it's still happening. Pretty incredible. Apple largely justifies its 30% cut as providing a curated experience, which is hard to reconcile with this reality.
- Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
  The checks and balances these large ecosystems boast off has become a hurdle to only small business who go over and above to comply with the rules, Where as these nefarious actors who game the system don't have anything dragging them down. This seems to be case with every large digital content publishing platform and especially worse in the case of vertical monopolies.
wly_cdgr 5y ago
Depressing and disgusting all around. Imagine being such a worthless sack of shit that you work at Apple and actively let this slide. These people are walking around filled with pus and maggots where their soul should be
groundpepper 5y ago
Worth noting that since this article was written Apple has begun prompting users to delete a subscription when deleting an app.
EricE 5y ago
The experiment has failed. Apple is NOT keeping up their end of the bargain to justify them being the only app store on iOS. Time to open the platform up and get some more competition. Apple is slow, unresponsive and downright lazy in how they mishandle the app store. Time for some choice. I know I am far less excited about mobile devices - mainly because of the utter mismanagement of the platform. Google is marginally better, but not enough to justify a switch. Both platform holders should be forced to open stuff up at this point.

113 points by svenfaw 5y ago

If anyone here needs ideas for legitimate apps, read the reviews for HotSchedules which is where managers post minimum wage workers’ schedules and each worker is forced to pay $3 for a terrible, terrible app.

idkwhojamesis 5y ago
is where manage

fxtentacle 5y ago

Scam tech illiterate people into an expensive subscription. Kind of the same as all those "free" to play games.

raman162 5y ago
Well there are the two types of "free" to play games, the ones that are malware and the ones that are "Pay" to win. With the latter, I think people are mostly aware of how much they spend in the "Pay" to win games even if it's just for cosmetic items. The most common argument I hear is that it's no different than spending $3.00 on a coffee or a snack and it gives roughly the same amount of value, it's just a digital asset.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  From what I've heard, a big issue is kids playing on their parents' phones and just clicking OK to all the in-app coins that they need to continue playing. And then at the end of the month, the parents receive a $2000 credit card bill and are shocked. Here's an example of a "game" that is basically gambling for kids: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-master/id406889139 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-master/id406889139 And here's the class action lawsuit where I heard about it: https://www.classaction.org/news/coin-master-mobile-casino-game-tilted-too-far-in-favor-of-the-house-class-action-says https://www.classaction.org/news/coin-master-mobile-casino-g... Here's another game that looks like it was for kids, but is actually a "social casino": https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-kingdom/id1462733996 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/coin-kingdom/id1462733996 Or this one: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/piggy-boom/id1129050711 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/piggy-boom/id1129050711 "I am completely hooked on this game! I absolutely love it! I spend more money on this game than I do my own self! It’s worth it though!" Also, this article is excellent: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/monetizing-children https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/monetizing-children "the design technique that Zynga describes as “fun pain”, the idea is to inflict some very uncomfortable situation on a player in their game, and then offer to remove that situation in return for money. While the vast majority of adults will make the assessment that it is in their best interest to not spend the money and to just exit the application that is designed to hurt them, it is biologically harder to come to this conclusion if the decision maker is a child." "retailers will sell Zynga time cards for cash to children of any age, without the presence of an adult"
pubutil 5y ago
It looks to me that this is a similar concept to those malicious “virus alert” websites that instruct you to call someone in India. Then (after some fearmongering, and maybe bullying) they commandeer your computer, run netstat, and tell you that you have viruses that only an expensive yearly subscription can fix. I also have to wonder how many people are outright ignorant about iOS’s subscription cancellation menus. The menu is kind of hidden away in the Settings app. Not only that, but in my experience, subscriptions through iOS show up as charges from Apple on bank statements; no indication of what you were charged for. Hell, even payments to the Apple Store for physical products show almost the same nomenclature, with no indication that it’s a different type of purchase.
void_mint 5y ago
> Kind of the same as all those "free" to play games. Free to play isn't a scam. They're free to play. You can choose to spend money if you'd like.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Yes, but without the word "play" (because you can't play it without paying for it), it becomes "free to", which doesn't make any sense, or if you DO pay money, it becomes "to play" which sounds like toupee. Which is another kind of scam, if you think about it. Free to play is a scam if you need to pay to actually win, except that relies on Apple's review process being any good, but as we see here, that's clearly not true.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    > Yes, but without the word "play" (because you can't play it without paying for it), You can play any F2P game without paying for it. > it becomes "free to", which doesn't make any sense, or if you DO pay money, it becomes "to play" which sounds like toupee. Which is another kind of scam, This doesn't make any sense. > Free to play is a scam if you need to pay to actually win You don't. > except that relies on Apple's review process being any good, but as we see here, that's clearly not true. F2P means it does not cost money to play. All F2P games allow you to play without paying money. These complaints are strange, but definitely founded in some sort of confusion. I would encourage you to downloaded pretty much any F2P game - you'll find you can absolutely play it right away!
Hnrobert42 5y ago
Kind of like AT&T’s “Unlimited” plans. AT&T just has better lawyers.

amelius 5y ago

How many devs are ramen-profitable on the App Store versus how many devs tried to be? I always have the suspicion that Apple wants us to believe that the App Store can make any honest, hard-working dev filthy rich, when in reality you need to be extremely lucky to get more money out of it than you put in. (Please don't reply with anecdotes. I want statistics!)

ezy 5y ago

The elephant in the room is that Apple must already know this is happening. It's not like they need a viral blog article or a user flag uprising to tell them this -- It's been obvious to most technologically saavy users who own iphones -- and it must be 10x as obvious to someone who works at Apple on the actual App Store . They're just choosing to do nothing about it because it's advantageous to them. Period. But what else is new when large sums of money are involved...

the_only_law 5y ago
Ofc stuff like this is allowed but when I have a clever idea for a useful app its painfully made clear that it would never get passed the guidelines.
raman162 5y ago
Yes but what pushes the knife further into the gut is how apple claims it has a strict app review process to protect iOS users when they have obviously done a poor job here. They were quick to catch epic games bypassing their payment system but can't catch a very obvious scam that made it to their top 10 grossing app list.
- civilized 5y ago
  Isn't that how Apple justifies their ridiculous 30% cut? The herculean effort they make to keep the app store safe? Turns out they just give scammers a platform to defraud the vulnerable at scale.

librish 5y ago

This seems like a really big counterpoint to the corner stone of Apple's "30% is reasonable" take - that the App Store is a safe and curated experience. It's one thing for a one off app to slip through, but to have it make its way to the top charts with so many positive reviews is a really, really bad look.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
30% is not nearly enough money! Just look at all this shit that gets through! /s
mkhpalm 5y ago
I find it interesting that scamming regular people out of money isn't going to get an app banned from the App Store. Contrast that with the many apps we've all heard of that Apple does ban.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Never mind the app, if Apple were smart, they'd punitively ban the developer and everybody associated with it from being on the App store forever. Or some number of years, anyway

robertwt7 5y ago

How did they got through apple review process? Heck the review process is super strict that I’m being very careful for iOS app but these guys seems to know the way around it

imron 5y ago
This was my thought too. I have written a number of apps available in the App Store, and I’m amazed an app like this could pass review.
Hnrobert42 5y ago
You are being careful because you care if you get rejected and you care about the reputation of your app and developer account. Scammers can just keep throwing accounts and apps at this until something sticks long enough to make a fortune.
Linkd 5y ago
All is takes is a feature flag that completely changes your apps functionality post approval [or better yet, when viewed from within Apples network..] Of course this will get you removed if caught, but throw enough attempts and you'll get to these results.
- dwighttk 5y ago
  How did they write an app that does what the text says enough that the reviewer passed it? The whole virus scanner on iOS category should be looked at, they are all questionable at best.
ericmcer 5y ago
Yeah seriously, I remember them flagging my app for using a JS library that had security vulnerabilities. But then they don't grep for some variant of "agree to pay/subscribe $X?" buried in the app.

yen223 5y ago

The article sources a lot of the revenue numbers from Sensor Tower. How reliable are the numbers from Sensor Tower?

dwighttk 5y ago

(Originally 2017)

dang 5y ago
Updated. Thanks!

dang 5y ago

Past threads: How to Make $80k per Month on the Apple App Store (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19416740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19416740 - March 2019 (17 comments) $80k/month App Store Scam - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14526156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14526156 - June 2017 (195 comments)

Maursault 5y ago
Thx for posting. The outrage is still fresh. Robert Mueller is wasting his time on President Trump when he should be investigating Ngan Vo Thi Thuy! Apple better do something about this 4 years ago!

alecthomas 5y ago

I just did a quick search for "Virus Scanner" and this was in the first 10 results: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/phone-protection/id1282949977 https://apps.apple.com/au/app/phone-protection/id1282949977 Pretty clearly fake reviews, what it provides seems like a complete scam, in app subscriptions - ticks all the boxes from that article! Four years on and it's still happening. Pretty incredible. Apple largely justifies its 30% cut as providing a curated experience, which is hard to reconcile with this reality.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
The checks and balances these large ecosystems boast off has become a hurdle to only small business who go over and above to comply with the rules, Where as these nefarious actors who game the system don't have anything dragging them down. This seems to be case with every large digital content publishing platform and especially worse in the case of vertical monopolies.

wly_cdgr 5y ago

Depressing and disgusting all around. Imagine being such a worthless sack of shit that you work at Apple and actively let this slide. These people are walking around filled with pus and maggots where their soul should be

groundpepper 5y ago

Worth noting that since this article was written Apple has begun prompting users to delete a subscription when deleting an app.

EricE 5y ago

The experiment has failed. Apple is NOT keeping up their end of the bargain to justify them being the only app store on iOS. Time to open the platform up and get some more competition. Apple is slow, unresponsive and downright lazy in how they mishandle the app store. Time for some choice. I know I am far less excited about mobile devices - mainly because of the utter mismanagement of the platform. Google is marginally better, but not enough to justify a switch. Both platform holders should be forced to open stuff up at this point.