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I think this comment is sensational but generally true. Replace CSAM with “right leaning” politics and you are just as fucked. I’m thinking about leaving the U

I think this comment is sensational but generally true. Replace CSAM with “right leaning” politics and you are just as fucked. I’m thinking about leaving the US and getting a EU work visa to avoid the shitshow. There are a lot of people who think censorship is good - in the name of fighting misinformation - and generally hold a negative opinion of opposing viewpoints.

hwers 5y ago
Not really sure leaving the US would do that much good (speaking as a european).
zepto 5y ago
You do realize the EU is further down the path of enabling censorship than the US?
- fsflover 5y ago
  What are you talking about?
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    There is no near-absolute right to free speech in the EU. Countless people have been successfilly prosecuted for what would be covered under the 1st amendment in the EU.
    - h_anna_h 5y ago
      ECHR contains the freedom of speech as a human right and so do most EU countries in their own constitutions. "Countless people have been successfully prosecuted for what would be covered under the 1st amendment" (and the ECHR) in the US too. The constitution only has value as long as it's enforced.
      - bitwize 5y ago
        If you express Nazi views in Germany, you will be arrested. In the USA the First Amendment has been ruled to apply to even the most odious kinds of speech, including neo-Nazis and the KKK. That said it's also true that Germany is, in practice, a freer country than the USA -- and a lot of that may have to domwith the fact that they banned Nazism and public expression of Nazism over 70 years ago. The concept of "unalienable rights" so enshrined in American political philosophy is a myth. COVID should have taught us that all freedom is contingent. A corollary of that is that in order for a society to be, in practice, free, individual rights must be balanced against public health and public safety. The radical American belief in inviolable individual rights led us down the present course of toxic individualism, which got us Trump and the current antivax movement.
        h_anna_h 5y ago
        > which got us Trump and the current antivax movement I think that you are stretching it a bit here. Claiming that individualism is responsible for that seems unsubstantiated.
        notriddle 5y ago
        It’s a stretch to blame “absolute rights” for Trump’s election. That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. The anti-maskers? The only reason those guys think they have a case is exactly because they think bodily autonomy has no limits.
        robertlagrant 5y ago
        > That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. It can be, but it probably shouldn't be.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        > ...they think bodily autonomy has no limits. ...they think THEIR bodily autonomy has no limits -- not even where sane people would see that it has to be limited to not encroach on OTHER PEOPLE'S bodily autonomy. There, FTFY.
fortran77 5y ago
Nevermind "CSAM" and "right leaning" politics -- I can't even seem to find a place that will host the anti-obesity group that I used to enjoy reading on reddit. (It was removed by Ellen Pao when they cleaned up "hate groups".)
- user-the-name 5y ago
  That is because it was, in fact, a hate group, not an "anti-obesity" group.
  - fortran77 5y ago
    Ok, I get it. You're against free speech. But the point stands--it's difficult to find a place to host a forum that contains legal discussions that happen to offend the sensibilities of the type of people who run tech companies.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      No, I am against hate groups. They are the absolute worst of humanity, they destroy people, and they destroy societies. Do not participate in them. Do not support them. Do everything you can to oppose them.
      - fortran77 5y ago
        I’d bet you and I both would agree that we don’t like people who recklessly put themselves in a situation where they are at extreme risk to catch or spread COVID. If we were to have a forum that criticized people who won’t vaccinate, won’t distance, won’t wear protective masks, and promote unproven treatments would that be a “hate group?”
        mullingitover 5y ago
        Obesity isn't contagious so these things aren't remotely comparable. It was just a hate group, stop digging man.

hwers 5y ago

Not really sure leaving the US would do that much good (speaking as a european).

zepto 5y ago

You do realize the EU is further down the path of enabling censorship than the US?

fsflover 5y ago
What are you talking about?
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  There is no near-absolute right to free speech in the EU. Countless people have been successfilly prosecuted for what would be covered under the 1st amendment in the EU.
  - h_anna_h 5y ago
    ECHR contains the freedom of speech as a human right and so do most EU countries in their own constitutions. "Countless people have been successfully prosecuted for what would be covered under the 1st amendment" (and the ECHR) in the US too. The constitution only has value as long as it's enforced.
    - bitwize 5y ago
      If you express Nazi views in Germany, you will be arrested. In the USA the First Amendment has been ruled to apply to even the most odious kinds of speech, including neo-Nazis and the KKK. That said it's also true that Germany is, in practice, a freer country than the USA -- and a lot of that may have to domwith the fact that they banned Nazism and public expression of Nazism over 70 years ago. The concept of "unalienable rights" so enshrined in American political philosophy is a myth. COVID should have taught us that all freedom is contingent. A corollary of that is that in order for a society to be, in practice, free, individual rights must be balanced against public health and public safety. The radical American belief in inviolable individual rights led us down the present course of toxic individualism, which got us Trump and the current antivax movement.
      - h_anna_h 5y ago
        > which got us Trump and the current antivax movement I think that you are stretching it a bit here. Claiming that individualism is responsible for that seems unsubstantiated.
        notriddle 5y ago
        It’s a stretch to blame “absolute rights” for Trump’s election. That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. The anti-maskers? The only reason those guys think they have a case is exactly because they think bodily autonomy has no limits.
        robertlagrant 5y ago
        > That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia. It can be, but it probably shouldn't be.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        > ...they think bodily autonomy has no limits. ...they think THEIR bodily autonomy has no limits -- not even where sane people would see that it has to be limited to not encroach on OTHER PEOPLE'S bodily autonomy. There, FTFY.

fortran77 5y ago

Nevermind "CSAM" and "right leaning" politics -- I can't even seem to find a place that will host the anti-obesity group that I used to enjoy reading on reddit. (It was removed by Ellen Pao when they cleaned up "hate groups".)

user-the-name 5y ago
That is because it was, in fact, a hate group, not an "anti-obesity" group.
- fortran77 5y ago
  Ok, I get it. You're against free speech. But the point stands--it's difficult to find a place to host a forum that contains legal discussions that happen to offend the sensibilities of the type of people who run tech companies.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    No, I am against hate groups. They are the absolute worst of humanity, they destroy people, and they destroy societies. Do not participate in them. Do not support them. Do everything you can to oppose them.
    - fortran77 5y ago
      I’d bet you and I both would agree that we don’t like people who recklessly put themselves in a situation where they are at extreme risk to catch or spread COVID. If we were to have a forum that criticized people who won’t vaccinate, won’t distance, won’t wear protective masks, and promote unproven treatments would that be a “hate group?”
      - mullingitover 5y ago
        Obesity isn't contagious so these things aren't remotely comparable. It was just a hate group, stop digging man.