5 ms·

What's the alternative? Autosaves? Did it autosave or did it not? Where did it save it to? Locally or to the cloud? Are the servers available? Does it make clea

What's the alternative? Autosaves? Did it autosave or did it not? Where did it save it to? Locally or to the cloud? Are the servers available? Does it make clear when they are not? Or worse, does it fail silently if they are not? Call me old-fashioned but please give me a save button and a file picker ;)

l33tman 5y ago
Notably none of the Google Docs cloud apps have any save button or option.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Saving drafts on XenForums is a floppy, even though there is no local save involved. I'm sure I've seen it in other web contexts.
- sharkweek 5y ago
  It took me a very long time to learn not to compulsively hit ctrl-s while using Google docs
- esprehn 5y ago
  Interestingly at one point Google Docs did have a save button, which IIRC didn't actually do anything because it would automatically save. The button was there just to make you feel more confident. You can see it in the top right corner here: https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_au/photo/g/google-docs-2010-old-word-processor-interface/google-docs-2010-old-word-processor-interface_axh6.1024.jpg https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_au/photo/g/google-docs-2010-old...
  - userbinator 5y ago
    The button was there just to make you feel more confident. ...and when the autosave inevitably fails, deception like that only serves to anger your users more.
jader201 5y ago
I’m both old and old fashioned, but I’ll take auto-save any day over manual save, especially something that required manual save without support of auto-save. I’ve lost enough work prior to auto-save being common that I never want to deal with an app that doesn’t somehow save my work pretty frequently.
- atoav 5y ago
  I like autosaves as well, but as a "I didn't save manually but there is always an autosave"-option. Saving is also a file managment choice.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    It really depends on what the app is though, yeah? If I'm in document processing or spreadsheet where you might be working for long periods where a 5min auto-save kicks in could be convenient. However, when I'm writing code that then needs to make rapid changes like updating CSS/JS/etc to be refreshed in browser, then I'm not waiting 5 mins for an autosave. Cmd-S, Cmd-tab, Shift-Cmd-R, boom. However, Cmd-S is so engrained into the muscle memory, that it's almost instinctual to hit it after every press of a semi-colon.
    - IgorPartola 5y ago
      If I type in rm -rf / and pause for a moment trying to remember if I’m trying to delete /var/log/apache2/ or /usr/local/var/log/apache2/ in a dev environment that auto-executes code when I save it I would strongly prefer that it wait until I manually save.
      - atoav 5y ago
        Which is why I like Autosaves that save a copy. Blender for example autosaves project files into it's own location (and keeps that location clean). If you have a crash you can still go for that autosave file and it works in most cases – but it isn't saved in the folder you are working in. For certain programs this would be overkill of course, but for others it would be quite cool.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
I have been doing Ctrl+s for most of my life. I type a lot and this is like second breathing. I write a sentence, save. Some pause, save. Looking out the window, save. Its as common as pressing space or enter.
bitwize 5y ago
Does it matter? The only thing that matters to the end user is that the changes they made to their document persist. And they should persist by default, not only when the user issues a Save command.
- dylan604 5y ago
  I don't know, I sort of enjoy being able to make changes, see they didn't work/not necessary/etc, and then just closing the document hitting "Don't save" vs hitting undo until returning to last saved state (which was when exactly???). Bonus points for apps that have an actual Revert feature.
  - oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
    Maybe file management will map closer to revision control one day. Autosave would be the equivalent of a regular commit, closing the document would be a tagged commit of some sort. Your "hitting undo until returning to last saved state" would then be a single step, reverting to a timed, possibly named point.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      For text based files, I think a versioning like system built into the filesystem would be ideal. Each save is just the diff. A nice UI to see/revert changes. Yet the lack of commit type messages would make those changes less friendly. I don't want to be burdened/slowed down with commit messages everytime I hit Cmd-S. However, this would not work for binary type files like MOV, PSD, etc.
      - leohonexus 5y ago
        Ah, this reminds me of YesterCode, a tool that lets you scrub through code changes like a timeline. Relevant HN thread: https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/blog/yestercode.html https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/blog/yestercode.html
      - chongli 5y ago
kragen 5y ago
git commit, I suppose. Maybe something that doesn't have separate save, add, commit, and push steps.

l33tman 5y ago

Notably none of the Google Docs cloud apps have any save button or option.

dragontamer 5y ago
Saving drafts on XenForums is a floppy, even though there is no local save involved. I'm sure I've seen it in other web contexts.
sharkweek 5y ago
It took me a very long time to learn not to compulsively hit ctrl-s while using Google docs
esprehn 5y ago
Interestingly at one point Google Docs did have a save button, which IIRC didn't actually do anything because it would automatically save. The button was there just to make you feel more confident. You can see it in the top right corner here: https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_au/photo/g/google-docs-2010-old-word-processor-interface/google-docs-2010-old-word-processor-interface_axh6.1024.jpg https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_au/photo/g/google-docs-2010-old...
- userbinator 5y ago
  The button was there just to make you feel more confident. ...and when the autosave inevitably fails, deception like that only serves to anger your users more.

jader201 5y ago

I’m both old and old fashioned, but I’ll take auto-save any day over manual save, especially something that required manual save without support of auto-save. I’ve lost enough work prior to auto-save being common that I never want to deal with an app that doesn’t somehow save my work pretty frequently.

atoav 5y ago
I like autosaves as well, but as a "I didn't save manually but there is always an autosave"-option. Saving is also a file managment choice.
- dylan604 5y ago
  It really depends on what the app is though, yeah? If I'm in document processing or spreadsheet where you might be working for long periods where a 5min auto-save kicks in could be convenient. However, when I'm writing code that then needs to make rapid changes like updating CSS/JS/etc to be refreshed in browser, then I'm not waiting 5 mins for an autosave. Cmd-S, Cmd-tab, Shift-Cmd-R, boom. However, Cmd-S is so engrained into the muscle memory, that it's almost instinctual to hit it after every press of a semi-colon.
  - IgorPartola 5y ago
    If I type in rm -rf / and pause for a moment trying to remember if I’m trying to delete /var/log/apache2/ or /usr/local/var/log/apache2/ in a dev environment that auto-executes code when I save it I would strongly prefer that it wait until I manually save.
    - atoav 5y ago
      Which is why I like Autosaves that save a copy. Blender for example autosaves project files into it's own location (and keeps that location clean). If you have a crash you can still go for that autosave file and it works in most cases – but it isn't saved in the folder you are working in. For certain programs this would be overkill of course, but for others it would be quite cool.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

I have been doing Ctrl+s for most of my life. I type a lot and this is like second breathing. I write a sentence, save. Some pause, save. Looking out the window, save. Its as common as pressing space or enter.

bitwize 5y ago

Does it matter? The only thing that matters to the end user is that the changes they made to their document persist. And they should persist by default, not only when the user issues a Save command.

dylan604 5y ago
I don't know, I sort of enjoy being able to make changes, see they didn't work/not necessary/etc, and then just closing the document hitting "Don't save" vs hitting undo until returning to last saved state (which was when exactly???). Bonus points for apps that have an actual Revert feature.
- oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
  Maybe file management will map closer to revision control one day. Autosave would be the equivalent of a regular commit, closing the document would be a tagged commit of some sort. Your "hitting undo until returning to last saved state" would then be a single step, reverting to a timed, possibly named point.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    For text based files, I think a versioning like system built into the filesystem would be ideal. Each save is just the diff. A nice UI to see/revert changes. Yet the lack of commit type messages would make those changes less friendly. I don't want to be burdened/slowed down with commit messages everytime I hit Cmd-S. However, this would not work for binary type files like MOV, PSD, etc.
    - leohonexus 5y ago
      Ah, this reminds me of YesterCode, a tool that lets you scrub through code changes like a timeline. Relevant HN thread: https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/blog/yestercode.html https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/blog/yestercode.html
    - chongli 5y ago

kragen 5y ago

git commit, I suppose. Maybe something that doesn't have separate save, add, commit, and push steps.