5 ms·

I've recently had my first experience with shellac. Bought 10g of red flakes for ~$2, dissolved it in alcohol, applied 10 layers or so. Despite being red it has

by dvh 5y ago

I've recently had my first experience with shellac. Bought 10g of red flakes for ~$2, dissolved it in alcohol, applied 10 layers or so. Despite being red it has some yellowness to it, smells absolutely delicious, it's relatively easy to scratch with nail (although this might be because I used pine). Dries in about day. Very glossy. I don't think it's good for things that are handled manually like a guitar. Eventually I decided not to use it and went for EN 71.3 paint/stain that is specifically designed for toys.

thisiscorrect 5y ago
I thought guitars typically get a French polish which does use shellac.
- exDM69 5y ago
  Some guitars do but it's not common. Nitrocellulose lacquer was common in the 20th century and linseed oil with natural resins before that.
  - _0ffh 5y ago
    When I hear "nitrocellulose" I quickly get doubts if I'd want to coat my instrument in it. (If it's common I presume it must be safe, more or less, but it sure doesn't inspire much confidence in me.)
    - exDM69 5y ago
      No, it is not safe, and that is why it is regulated and hard to get in many parts of the world. Afaik the final product is pretty safe but handling the chemicals while working with it needs precautions.
      - namibj 5y ago
        Well, handling the lacquer while (re)coating a guitar would only have the typical solvent issues.
    - namibj 5y ago
      This is low-nitrated material, and the only issue there is thermal runaway that you don't have when applied as a guitar lacquer. That nitrocellulose form is only really a problem in bulk form, like back when it was used for movie projection film. Flakes of the lacquer just burn fast and may continue burning without additional oxygen, but the thin film inhibits any detonation waves across the surface, while the liquid lacquer form inhibits such by dilution in a solvent.
5ersi 5y ago
I use shellac, an application is dry in about 20-30min.
vosper 5y ago
> smells absolutely delicious Apart from smelling nice, is it something that is actually okay to breathe in?
- userbinator 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resinous_glaze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resinous_glaze Shellac is not particularly harmful.
ketzo 5y ago
“smells delicious” is hilarious to me. What’s the smell like?
- mhb 5y ago
  I'm curious too. When I use shellac, it smells like alcohol.
  - short_sells_poo 5y ago
    I must be odd but I like the smell of certain organic solvents - alcohol included. Perhaps shellac adds some extra depth to the already sweet smell of alcohol and produces something that OP finds nice? Note that I drink very rarely so this is not coming from being a heavy drinker.
    - dekhn 5y ago
      yes shellac has a noticeable odor which is not entirely the alcohol. I enjoy petroleum solvents, mainly.
cfn 5y ago
What alcohol did you use? The instructions I find talk about denaturated alcohol which, at least here in Portugal, has a blue tint (smells like alcohol but is poisonous).
- exDM69 5y ago
  I have used normal denatured alcohol but it does not have a blue color where I am from. It did smell bad and have adverse reaction when in contact with moisture, but it was the cheapest stove fuel alcohol and I got good results. Specialty stores for woodwork, art supply etc sell high quality denatured alcohol for use in shellac which is higher purity and smells less bad. I haven't tried that.
- kragen 5y ago
  You can use pure ethanol, which is easy enough to distill from wine or other rotten fruit, though this is prohibited in some backwards countries for superstitious reasons. Some people prefer isopropanol, but they say you have to be sure it's not adulterated with water. You can salt water out of isopropanol, but I don't know if the resulting salt contamination is harmful to your wood finish. Other people report success with methanol, but I wouldn't want to get it on me.
  - markdown 5y ago
    > though this is prohibited in some backwards countries for superstitious reasons It was banned in my country after a dozen people died and more went blind after someone made a bad batch of something. Not superstition.
    - OkayPhysicist 5y ago
      Methanol poisoning from distilling is superstition. Any sugar-based mash (whether it be a fruit wine, a grain beer, or a good ol' sugar mash) will produce completely negligible quantities of methanol, even if you are drinking the foreshots directly. Methanol only occurs in home distilling if you are trying to recreate certain heavy-cellulose mashes (I've heard there's some Italian one that uses a particular wood, for example) or, more commonly, if someone is trying to de-denature alcohol, which was common during the Prohibition, which lead to the belief that moonshine was apt to blind you.
mauvehaus 5y ago
How long after you applied it did it scratch? Like a lot of finishes, shellac dries pretty quickly, but takes a while to fully cure. Also: not applicable to your situation, but the lighter (in color) grades of shellac are processed in a way that means that non-fresh shellac sometimes doesn't dissolve or harden properly.
- kaydub 5y ago
  I noticed this on a closet section I just built. A day or two after finishing it would still scratch but now that it's been a while and it's in the closet being used it doesn't seem to scratch.
hilbert42 5y ago
When blending shellac, especially if you are using a dark color like you'd use on skirting boards then always ensure that you use 99% ethanol. Obviously it depends where you live so availability may be a problem as that strength may not be permissible. Often consumer-grade industrial ethanol is only available at 95% strength the remaining 5% water and denaturant. The 5% water doesn't seem much but it can cause the shellac to go slightly milky in color. This can be quite noticeable if you're trying to match colors during the touch up of some old work. The transparency of the schellac isn't the same so even when you match the color you can still notice the difference. Also, if there's too much water in the alcohol then the shellac won't harden properly - or you'll notice a textural difference in the finished surface.

by dvh 5y ago

thisiscorrect 5y ago

I thought guitars typically get a French polish which does use shellac.

exDM69 5y ago
Some guitars do but it's not common. Nitrocellulose lacquer was common in the 20th century and linseed oil with natural resins before that.
- _0ffh 5y ago
  When I hear "nitrocellulose" I quickly get doubts if I'd want to coat my instrument in it. (If it's common I presume it must be safe, more or less, but it sure doesn't inspire much confidence in me.)
  - exDM69 5y ago
    No, it is not safe, and that is why it is regulated and hard to get in many parts of the world. Afaik the final product is pretty safe but handling the chemicals while working with it needs precautions.
    - namibj 5y ago
      Well, handling the lacquer while (re)coating a guitar would only have the typical solvent issues.
  - namibj 5y ago
    This is low-nitrated material, and the only issue there is thermal runaway that you don't have when applied as a guitar lacquer. That nitrocellulose form is only really a problem in bulk form, like back when it was used for movie projection film. Flakes of the lacquer just burn fast and may continue burning without additional oxygen, but the thin film inhibits any detonation waves across the surface, while the liquid lacquer form inhibits such by dilution in a solvent.

5ersi 5y ago

I use shellac, an application is dry in about 20-30min.

vosper 5y ago

> smells absolutely delicious Apart from smelling nice, is it something that is actually okay to breathe in?

userbinator 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resinous_glaze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resinous_glaze Shellac is not particularly harmful.

ketzo 5y ago

“smells delicious” is hilarious to me. What’s the smell like?

mhb 5y ago
I'm curious too. When I use shellac, it smells like alcohol.
- short_sells_poo 5y ago
  I must be odd but I like the smell of certain organic solvents - alcohol included. Perhaps shellac adds some extra depth to the already sweet smell of alcohol and produces something that OP finds nice? Note that I drink very rarely so this is not coming from being a heavy drinker.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    yes shellac has a noticeable odor which is not entirely the alcohol. I enjoy petroleum solvents, mainly.

cfn 5y ago

What alcohol did you use? The instructions I find talk about denaturated alcohol which, at least here in Portugal, has a blue tint (smells like alcohol but is poisonous).

exDM69 5y ago
I have used normal denatured alcohol but it does not have a blue color where I am from. It did smell bad and have adverse reaction when in contact with moisture, but it was the cheapest stove fuel alcohol and I got good results. Specialty stores for woodwork, art supply etc sell high quality denatured alcohol for use in shellac which is higher purity and smells less bad. I haven't tried that.
kragen 5y ago
You can use pure ethanol, which is easy enough to distill from wine or other rotten fruit, though this is prohibited in some backwards countries for superstitious reasons. Some people prefer isopropanol, but they say you have to be sure it's not adulterated with water. You can salt water out of isopropanol, but I don't know if the resulting salt contamination is harmful to your wood finish. Other people report success with methanol, but I wouldn't want to get it on me.
- markdown 5y ago
  > though this is prohibited in some backwards countries for superstitious reasons It was banned in my country after a dozen people died and more went blind after someone made a bad batch of something. Not superstition.
  - OkayPhysicist 5y ago
    Methanol poisoning from distilling is superstition. Any sugar-based mash (whether it be a fruit wine, a grain beer, or a good ol' sugar mash) will produce completely negligible quantities of methanol, even if you are drinking the foreshots directly. Methanol only occurs in home distilling if you are trying to recreate certain heavy-cellulose mashes (I've heard there's some Italian one that uses a particular wood, for example) or, more commonly, if someone is trying to de-denature alcohol, which was common during the Prohibition, which lead to the belief that moonshine was apt to blind you.

mauvehaus 5y ago

How long after you applied it did it scratch? Like a lot of finishes, shellac dries pretty quickly, but takes a while to fully cure. Also: not applicable to your situation, but the lighter (in color) grades of shellac are processed in a way that means that non-fresh shellac sometimes doesn't dissolve or harden properly.

kaydub 5y ago
I noticed this on a closet section I just built. A day or two after finishing it would still scratch but now that it's been a while and it's in the closet being used it doesn't seem to scratch.

hilbert42 5y ago

When blending shellac, especially if you are using a dark color like you'd use on skirting boards then always ensure that you use 99% ethanol. Obviously it depends where you live so availability may be a problem as that strength may not be permissible. Often consumer-grade industrial ethanol is only available at 95% strength the remaining 5% water and denaturant. The 5% water doesn't seem much but it can cause the shellac to go slightly milky in color. This can be quite noticeable if you're trying to match colors during the touch up of some old work. The transparency of the schellac isn't the same so even when you match the color you can still notice the difference. Also, if there's too much water in the alcohol then the shellac won't harden properly - or you'll notice a textural difference in the finished surface.