6 ms·

The Mandalorian is a bit more than "acceptable Star Wars" - they experimented with production techniques that are one step beyond anything attempted before, whi

by toyg 5y ago

The Mandalorian is a bit more than "acceptable Star Wars" - they experimented with production techniques that are one step beyond anything attempted before, while resurrecting a side of SW (the 'western' one) that had been effectively lost since the end of the original trilogy. And the main guy behind it? Jon Favreau, the man who effectively invented the MCU formula (fights and laughs) with the first Iron Man. Feige is good, but I'd bet more on Favreau to deliver than on any producer. (also, Thor a "C-level" character? He's had a dedicated monthly comic-book basically uninterrupted for more than 50 years, and features an entire cast of dedicated supporting characters and locations in Asgard... He's definitely an A-lister. IronMan, on the other hand, could absolutely be called a B-lister, since he spent large parts of his publication history effectively as little more than support for the Captain America / Avengers ecosystem, with very bad stories and artists. I would absolutely call "C-listers" Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, or the Guardians of the Galaxy - definitely not Thor.)

someperson 5y ago
The Mandalorian episodes that Jon Favreau directed are definitely top tier Star Wars. Great writing, great acting, great storylines. But there are so many lower-quality episodes in that series from less experienced directors with bad acting and weaker storylines. I believe things like bringing back Ahsoka Tano weakens the storyline of the Star Wars original trilogy as much as bringing back Palpatine in the sequel trilogy did. It reduces the impact of sacrifices that were made and raises questions that may never be answered. I agree the new technique of using "virtual sets" with Unreal Engine rather than green screen [1] is great innovation that helps make way more immersive TV shows with less budget (the first time I saw reflections of CGI characters on Mando's metallic helmet I was awestruck). I just hope Mandalorian and the other Star Wars series maintain a high quality that we've seen brief flashes of. I'm disappointed when the franchise doesn't live up to my high expectations. Many episodes of Mandalorian are not quite there for me. Some definitely are "perfect Star Wars" though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The Mandalorian episodes that Jon Favreau directed are definitely top tier Star Wars. Great writing, great acting, great storylines. > But there are so many lower-quality episodes in that series from less experienced directors with bad acting and weaker storylines. I feel the same way with “pre-Disney Star Wars films” in place of “Mandalorian” and “Irvin Kershner” in place of “Jon Favreau”.
LegitShady 5y ago
the writing on mandalorian is ultra bad. The characters are caricatures, the dialog stunted. Their ultra advanced production techniques just look like props with some CG. Rather than a show that would appeal to kids but have depth for adults, you get a mostly simple main character who does inexplicable things. Find the baby using locator, fly off with baby, forget about locator? Leave the baby every bounty hunter is looking for on the space truck with the local dockwoman and go do something else, etc. It was unbearable to watch from a story perspective so I stopped about 3/4 of the way through season 1. being "ok star wars" seems to be the very best it can aspire to. It's just a pastiche of star wars with some mixed in memberberries.
- someperson 5y ago
  I agree. I find there are sometimes flashes of Star Wars perfection, and it has all the pieces to be consistently top-tier. The depth they put into expanding upon the culture of the side species like the Jawas was great. But so much is wasted on bad character decisions, bad dialogue, bad acting and more. Just overall bad writing. There's so much potential, but it doesn't live up to what I expect from Star Wars. And that's so disappointing. I hope Disney/LucasFilm does better, because Star Wars continues to be a very important franchise to me and many others.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    >There's so much potential, but it doesn't live up to what I expect from Star Wars. clone wars was more sophisticated than mandalorian, and its a cartoon. I've given up on star wars - I don't bother to even check out new stuff. It's dead and disney is wearing its corpse.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Clone Wars was 7 series of 10 to 22 episodes each - 133 episodes, many of them barely watchable by anyone over 10 years of age. The good ones are really good, but there is a lot of dreck too, particularly the first 3-4 seasons. Take 16 random CW episodes and I don't think you'll find a better level of sophistication in it than in The Mandalorian.
jbigelow76 5y ago
Favreau is the Steve Jobs of the MCU, Feige is the Tim Cook.
- someperson 5y ago
  Just to talk in concrete terms, Jon Favreau only directed Iron Man 1 and 2. He was executive producer on Iron Man 3, and Avengers 1-3. Plus acting credits in MCU Spider-Man films. He deserves plenty of credit for his work on Iron Man and launching the MCU (and the MCU's film making formula). Favreau has contributed to the MCU's continued market success with the Avengers films. In my view Favreau's contribution ends there: the MCU is far more than just the Iron Man character, and Kevin Feige seems to me to be the one who has been pushing the MCU forward and keep it relevant.
  - glandium 5y ago
    Kind of a tangent: it's interesting to watch Favreau's Chef as being about Ironman. https://youtu.be/zIA3Iz48irs https://youtu.be/zIA3Iz48irs
judge2020 5y ago
I think Thor being C-level comes from a pure MCU standpoint: the first two Thor movies weren't as well-rated as the rest of the Phase 1 and 2 movies. They're the only two anyone considers skipping for newcomers/when re-watching the MCU, with TDW being the least important of the two (and the plot points in the movie are explained in the first act of the movies they were set up for, that being the reality stone and Loki disguised as Odin).
- toyg 5y ago
  At the time, the first Thor had quite the cultural impact though, at least here in England. "Superheroes do Shakespeare", Sir Anthony Hopkins strutting around, Idris Elba's "Black Heimdall", and a certain female view in Natalie Portman's character, were the talk of the town for quite a while around these isles. The problem it has now is just that is not as funny as the rest of MCU - back then the formula was still being developed and they were trying different things, likely leaving more freedom to directors (see also the difference in experience for Favreau between the first and second IronMan - when clearly the suits stepped in to freeze the setup). I agree the second Thor is basically a footnote (I think I watched it but tbh I don't really remember it), but then Ragnarok comes and it's so fun... Also Thor becomes pretty central to the Avengers storyline, tying up the Earth side and the cosmic side. I think "C-level" is way too harsh.
Talanes 5y ago
I'd even put comic Guardians below the C-List. The team that was adapted had one couple year run that followed one continuous story thread. It was a well-regarded run, and one of my favorites, but without the movie that team may have never come together again.

by toyg 5y ago

someperson 5y ago

The Mandalorian episodes that Jon Favreau directed are definitely top tier Star Wars. Great writing, great acting, great storylines. But there are so many lower-quality episodes in that series from less experienced directors with bad acting and weaker storylines. I believe things like bringing back Ahsoka Tano weakens the storyline of the Star Wars original trilogy as much as bringing back Palpatine in the sequel trilogy did. It reduces the impact of sacrifices that were made and raises questions that may never be answered. I agree the new technique of using "virtual sets" with Unreal Engine rather than green screen [1] is great innovation that helps make way more immersive TV shows with less budget (the first time I saw reflections of CGI characters on Mando's metallic helmet I was awestruck). I just hope Mandalorian and the other Star Wars series maintain a high quality that we've seen brief flashes of. I'm disappointed when the franchise doesn't live up to my high expectations. Many episodes of Mandalorian are not quite there for me. Some definitely are "perfect Star Wars" though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM

dragonwriter 5y ago
> The Mandalorian episodes that Jon Favreau directed are definitely top tier Star Wars. Great writing, great acting, great storylines. > But there are so many lower-quality episodes in that series from less experienced directors with bad acting and weaker storylines. I feel the same way with “pre-Disney Star Wars films” in place of “Mandalorian” and “Irvin Kershner” in place of “Jon Favreau”.

LegitShady 5y ago

the writing on mandalorian is ultra bad. The characters are caricatures, the dialog stunted. Their ultra advanced production techniques just look like props with some CG. Rather than a show that would appeal to kids but have depth for adults, you get a mostly simple main character who does inexplicable things. Find the baby using locator, fly off with baby, forget about locator? Leave the baby every bounty hunter is looking for on the space truck with the local dockwoman and go do something else, etc. It was unbearable to watch from a story perspective so I stopped about 3/4 of the way through season 1. being "ok star wars" seems to be the very best it can aspire to. It's just a pastiche of star wars with some mixed in memberberries.

someperson 5y ago
I agree. I find there are sometimes flashes of Star Wars perfection, and it has all the pieces to be consistently top-tier. The depth they put into expanding upon the culture of the side species like the Jawas was great. But so much is wasted on bad character decisions, bad dialogue, bad acting and more. Just overall bad writing. There's so much potential, but it doesn't live up to what I expect from Star Wars. And that's so disappointing. I hope Disney/LucasFilm does better, because Star Wars continues to be a very important franchise to me and many others.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  >There's so much potential, but it doesn't live up to what I expect from Star Wars. clone wars was more sophisticated than mandalorian, and its a cartoon. I've given up on star wars - I don't bother to even check out new stuff. It's dead and disney is wearing its corpse.
  - toyg 5y ago
    Clone Wars was 7 series of 10 to 22 episodes each - 133 episodes, many of them barely watchable by anyone over 10 years of age. The good ones are really good, but there is a lot of dreck too, particularly the first 3-4 seasons. Take 16 random CW episodes and I don't think you'll find a better level of sophistication in it than in The Mandalorian.

jbigelow76 5y ago

Favreau is the Steve Jobs of the MCU, Feige is the Tim Cook.

someperson 5y ago
Just to talk in concrete terms, Jon Favreau only directed Iron Man 1 and 2. He was executive producer on Iron Man 3, and Avengers 1-3. Plus acting credits in MCU Spider-Man films. He deserves plenty of credit for his work on Iron Man and launching the MCU (and the MCU's film making formula). Favreau has contributed to the MCU's continued market success with the Avengers films. In my view Favreau's contribution ends there: the MCU is far more than just the Iron Man character, and Kevin Feige seems to me to be the one who has been pushing the MCU forward and keep it relevant.
- glandium 5y ago
  Kind of a tangent: it's interesting to watch Favreau's Chef as being about Ironman. https://youtu.be/zIA3Iz48irs https://youtu.be/zIA3Iz48irs

judge2020 5y ago

I think Thor being C-level comes from a pure MCU standpoint: the first two Thor movies weren't as well-rated as the rest of the Phase 1 and 2 movies. They're the only two anyone considers skipping for newcomers/when re-watching the MCU, with TDW being the least important of the two (and the plot points in the movie are explained in the first act of the movies they were set up for, that being the reality stone and Loki disguised as Odin).

toyg 5y ago
At the time, the first Thor had quite the cultural impact though, at least here in England. "Superheroes do Shakespeare", Sir Anthony Hopkins strutting around, Idris Elba's "Black Heimdall", and a certain female view in Natalie Portman's character, were the talk of the town for quite a while around these isles. The problem it has now is just that is not as funny as the rest of MCU - back then the formula was still being developed and they were trying different things, likely leaving more freedom to directors (see also the difference in experience for Favreau between the first and second IronMan - when clearly the suits stepped in to freeze the setup). I agree the second Thor is basically a footnote (I think I watched it but tbh I don't really remember it), but then Ragnarok comes and it's so fun... Also Thor becomes pretty central to the Avengers storyline, tying up the Earth side and the cosmic side. I think "C-level" is way too harsh.

Talanes 5y ago

I'd even put comic Guardians below the C-List. The team that was adapted had one couple year run that followed one continuous story thread. It was a well-regarded run, and one of my favorites, but without the movie that team may have never come together again.