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This article doesn't cover _how_ marvel was able to be successful for so long. This article from HBR does, and I think is particularly insightful: https://hbr

by n8cpdx 5y ago

This article doesn't cover _how_ marvel was able to be successful for so long. This article from HBR does, and I think is particularly insightful: https://hbr.org/2019/07/marvels-blockbuster-machine https://hbr.org/2019/07/marvels-blockbuster-machine They have a podcast epsidoe released around the same time that covers the same content, if you prefer listening. People like to criticize marvel (mostly closed-minded people who assume all the movies are the same and choose not to watch them because they 'lower the quality of film' somehow by existing) but there's a lot to learn from them. There is a lot of fantastically original content coming out of marvel. I thought WandaVision was a particularly fun twist on the history of television.

someperson 5y ago
The real secret sauce: Kevin Feige of Marvel Studios, and his team including the top-tier casting director Sarah Halley Finn. Kevin Feige prevented Marvel movies from getting stale by completely switching the genre every single movie: eg, Winter Soldier (political thriller), Ant-Man (heist movie), Spider-Man Homecoming (high-school drama movie), Thor Ragnarok (Australia/New Zealand comedy), Shang-Chi (mythical Chinese martial arts movie). Feige has said if a character is ever successful enough to have a third movie, they will always take a very different approach from the prior two movies. Thor Ragnarok is the best example of this: a soft reboot of the personality of a previously dull Shakespearean character into a fan favorite. The success of that soft reboot was enough to give that C-level character his fourth solo movie -- something Marvel has not done before. None of Marvel's competitors have any producer of Kevin Feige's caliber. Not Warner Bros (DC comics), not Sony (Spiderman-villains universe) and not even Disney's LucasFilm (Star Wars). Kevin Feige is 48 years old and it's not clear whether he'll retire after the X-Men and Fantastic Four are integrated in the MCU. His magic touch and keen understanding of the characters have been a key part of the Marvel Studio's success, and it's not at all clear whether it will survive when he leaves. Marvel Studios could become like LucasFilm after George Lucas sold it. It's a shell of its former self that can barely produce anything passable: Mandalorian and Rogue One just make the cut as being acceptable Star Wars, but very little else.
- toyg 5y ago
  The Mandalorian is a bit more than "acceptable Star Wars" - they experimented with production techniques that are one step beyond anything attempted before, while resurrecting a side of SW (the 'western' one) that had been effectively lost since the end of the original trilogy. And the main guy behind it? Jon Favreau, the man who effectively invented the MCU formula (fights and laughs) with the first Iron Man. Feige is good, but I'd bet more on Favreau to deliver than on any producer. (also, Thor a "C-level" character? He's had a dedicated monthly comic-book basically uninterrupted for more than 50 years, and features an entire cast of dedicated supporting characters and locations in Asgard... He's definitely an A-lister. IronMan, on the other hand, could absolutely be called a B-lister, since he spent large parts of his publication history effectively as little more than support for the Captain America / Avengers ecosystem, with very bad stories and artists. I would absolutely call "C-listers" Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, or the Guardians of the Galaxy - definitely not Thor.)
  - someperson 5y ago
    The Mandalorian episodes that Jon Favreau directed are definitely top tier Star Wars. Great writing, great acting, great storylines. But there are so many lower-quality episodes in that series from less experienced directors with bad acting and weaker storylines. I believe things like bringing back Ahsoka Tano weakens the storyline of the Star Wars original trilogy as much as bringing back Palpatine in the sequel trilogy did. It reduces the impact of sacrifices that were made and raises questions that may never be answered. I agree the new technique of using "virtual sets" with Unreal Engine rather than green screen [1] is great innovation that helps make way more immersive TV shows with less budget (the first time I saw reflections of CGI characters on Mando's metallic helmet I was awestruck). I just hope Mandalorian and the other Star Wars series maintain a high quality that we've seen brief flashes of. I'm disappointed when the franchise doesn't live up to my high expectations. Many episodes of Mandalorian are not quite there for me. Some definitely are "perfect Star Wars" though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
mdoms 5y ago
I watched a ton of the earlier Marvel films including the first two avengers movies and you can call me closed-minded all you like it doesn't change the fact that they are mostly the same. I no longer watch that dreck.
- someperson 5y ago
  After the second Avenger's movie (Age of Ultron) I found the quality seemed to increase and became fresher and less repetitive (Guardian's of the Galaxy, Thor Ragnarok, Spider-Man Homecoming). But still if you didn't like the first 8 movies, you probably won't like the next 14 movies. But I still highly recommend Thor Ragnarok. Even as a standalone movie. Especially if you didn't like the first two Thor movies.
  - mdoms 5y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation but I will absolutely not be watching anymore Disney dreck.
  - blfr 5y ago
    Thor Ragnarok is one of the few capeshit movies I have seen and it was pretty bad. The entire dialogue is written around forced oneliners from a minute into the opening scene. Guardians of the Galaxy was OK but nothing to write home about or even make me remember to watch the sequel(s?). All of them are a steep drop in quality from The Dark Knight and there certainly isn't enough material there for twenty something 3hr films and half a dozen TV shows. Just like The Empire Strikes Back is a legitimately great movie while everything else Star Wars themed asymptotically approaches zero. The whole idea of world building with dozens of movies is a scourge on story telling and a complete dead end imho.
    - gilbetron 5y ago
      Ragnarok is one of my favorite movies of all time, as I found it unique, mesmerizing, and incredibly re-watchable. Great comedy, great drama, great action, great world building. The Dark Knight and the rest of its trilogy are just so ... blah. I just re-watched the 3rd and still find it so tepid and uninspired. I mean, Bane is kinda cool, but the rest is just bad. The story was insipid and hacked. The multi movie story and world building is the best thing that has happened in cinema in a long time. So you and I apparently have quite different tastes.
mola 5y ago
I've seen a lot of these MCU movies. I tried, but for me they are mostly fluff I forget the second I get out of the cinema. Pure low brow spectacles apart from maybe a couple. Am I closed minded oh great judge of taste and personality?
dandellion 5y ago
I've watched most of them, and after you've seen more than a couple with the same protagonist they all start to blend together. They're all pretty entertaining at least, which is why I like to watch them. And occasionally there's one that's actually pretty good and original, which is a nice surprise, but to me those are the minority.

by n8cpdx 5y ago

someperson 5y ago

The real secret sauce: Kevin Feige of Marvel Studios, and his team including the top-tier casting director Sarah Halley Finn. Kevin Feige prevented Marvel movies from getting stale by completely switching the genre every single movie: eg, Winter Soldier (political thriller), Ant-Man (heist movie), Spider-Man Homecoming (high-school drama movie), Thor Ragnarok (Australia/New Zealand comedy), Shang-Chi (mythical Chinese martial arts movie). Feige has said if a character is ever successful enough to have a third movie, they will always take a very different approach from the prior two movies. Thor Ragnarok is the best example of this: a soft reboot of the personality of a previously dull Shakespearean character into a fan favorite. The success of that soft reboot was enough to give that C-level character his fourth solo movie -- something Marvel has not done before. None of Marvel's competitors have any producer of Kevin Feige's caliber. Not Warner Bros (DC comics), not Sony (Spiderman-villains universe) and not even Disney's LucasFilm (Star Wars). Kevin Feige is 48 years old and it's not clear whether he'll retire after the X-Men and Fantastic Four are integrated in the MCU. His magic touch and keen understanding of the characters have been a key part of the Marvel Studio's success, and it's not at all clear whether it will survive when he leaves. Marvel Studios could become like LucasFilm after George Lucas sold it. It's a shell of its former self that can barely produce anything passable: Mandalorian and Rogue One just make the cut as being acceptable Star Wars, but very little else.

toyg 5y ago
The Mandalorian is a bit more than "acceptable Star Wars" - they experimented with production techniques that are one step beyond anything attempted before, while resurrecting a side of SW (the 'western' one) that had been effectively lost since the end of the original trilogy. And the main guy behind it? Jon Favreau, the man who effectively invented the MCU formula (fights and laughs) with the first Iron Man. Feige is good, but I'd bet more on Favreau to deliver than on any producer. (also, Thor a "C-level" character? He's had a dedicated monthly comic-book basically uninterrupted for more than 50 years, and features an entire cast of dedicated supporting characters and locations in Asgard... He's definitely an A-lister. IronMan, on the other hand, could absolutely be called a B-lister, since he spent large parts of his publication history effectively as little more than support for the Captain America / Avengers ecosystem, with very bad stories and artists. I would absolutely call "C-listers" Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, or the Guardians of the Galaxy - definitely not Thor.)
- someperson 5y ago
  The Mandalorian episodes that Jon Favreau directed are definitely top tier Star Wars. Great writing, great acting, great storylines. But there are so many lower-quality episodes in that series from less experienced directors with bad acting and weaker storylines. I believe things like bringing back Ahsoka Tano weakens the storyline of the Star Wars original trilogy as much as bringing back Palpatine in the sequel trilogy did. It reduces the impact of sacrifices that were made and raises questions that may never be answered. I agree the new technique of using "virtual sets" with Unreal Engine rather than green screen [1] is great innovation that helps make way more immersive TV shows with less budget (the first time I saw reflections of CGI characters on Mando's metallic helmet I was awestruck). I just hope Mandalorian and the other Star Wars series maintain a high quality that we've seen brief flashes of. I'm disappointed when the franchise doesn't live up to my high expectations. Many episodes of Mandalorian are not quite there for me. Some definitely are "perfect Star Wars" though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUI8uOsKTM
  - dragonwriter 5y ago

mdoms 5y ago

I watched a ton of the earlier Marvel films including the first two avengers movies and you can call me closed-minded all you like it doesn't change the fact that they are mostly the same. I no longer watch that dreck.

someperson 5y ago
After the second Avenger's movie (Age of Ultron) I found the quality seemed to increase and became fresher and less repetitive (Guardian's of the Galaxy, Thor Ragnarok, Spider-Man Homecoming). But still if you didn't like the first 8 movies, you probably won't like the next 14 movies. But I still highly recommend Thor Ragnarok. Even as a standalone movie. Especially if you didn't like the first two Thor movies.
- mdoms 5y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation but I will absolutely not be watching anymore Disney dreck.
- blfr 5y ago
  Thor Ragnarok is one of the few capeshit movies I have seen and it was pretty bad. The entire dialogue is written around forced oneliners from a minute into the opening scene. Guardians of the Galaxy was OK but nothing to write home about or even make me remember to watch the sequel(s?). All of them are a steep drop in quality from The Dark Knight and there certainly isn't enough material there for twenty something 3hr films and half a dozen TV shows. Just like The Empire Strikes Back is a legitimately great movie while everything else Star Wars themed asymptotically approaches zero. The whole idea of world building with dozens of movies is a scourge on story telling and a complete dead end imho.
  - gilbetron 5y ago
    Ragnarok is one of my favorite movies of all time, as I found it unique, mesmerizing, and incredibly re-watchable. Great comedy, great drama, great action, great world building. The Dark Knight and the rest of its trilogy are just so ... blah. I just re-watched the 3rd and still find it so tepid and uninspired. I mean, Bane is kinda cool, but the rest is just bad. The story was insipid and hacked. The multi movie story and world building is the best thing that has happened in cinema in a long time. So you and I apparently have quite different tastes.

mola 5y ago

I've seen a lot of these MCU movies. I tried, but for me they are mostly fluff I forget the second I get out of the cinema. Pure low brow spectacles apart from maybe a couple. Am I closed minded oh great judge of taste and personality?

dandellion 5y ago

I've watched most of them, and after you've seen more than a couple with the same protagonist they all start to blend together. They're all pretty entertaining at least, which is why I like to watch them. And occasionally there's one that's actually pretty good and original, which is a nice surprise, but to me those are the minority.