5 ms·

A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

34 points by hprotagonist 5y ago

Centmo 5y ago
Came for the photos. Left disappointed.
goatsecxkirk 5y ago
I went to the pride parade in Seattle in ¿2012? and was disgusted by the public sexual acts that I saw. I don't know why some people weren't arrested for indecent exposure or other sex offenses. Edit: why was this flagged? Public sexual displays are not alright no matter the context
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
goatsecxkirk 5y ago
I went to the pride parade in Seattle in ¿2012? and was disgusted by the public sexual acts that I saw. I don't know why some people weren't arrested for indecent exposure or other sex offenses. Why was this comment flagged in the other thread? Public sexual displays are not alright no matter the context
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  you could actually read the essay, for a start: We should remember that expressions of variant sexuality are not only a form of individual expression, but also a public good. Many asexual people and families enjoy seeing leather in Pride. Leather contingents demystify the community, reduce social stigma, create opportunities to meet and talk with kinksters, and help people discover new desires. Public floggings can balance misconceptions that impact is “just about pain,” and illustrate the possibility for emotional connection. Public bondage can be an art installation. In my personal experience marching and performing scenes in public, people on the street are far more curious, supportive, and delighted to see pups in hoods and men in rope than the present discourse would have us believe. Finally: as several of the accounts in this history demonstrate, one’s own feelings about sexual displays can change dramatically over time. What was frightening or disgusting one year can be freeing, erotic, or beautiful the next. This points to the possibility of Pride as more than a space where we impose the standard norms of an imagined unitary public. As a polyvocal celebration, Pride offers us the chance not only to express ourselves, but also to see others’ expressions of a broad range of queer identities. With a little patience we can rejoice in others’ kaleidoscopic queerness—and sometimes, if we’re lucky, discover new aspects of our selves. The history of Pride is also extensively discussed and cited heavily. Scolds of your tone are at least as old as pride, and still about as tone-deaf as ever.
  - goatsecxkirk 5y ago
    I started reading it and then realized how long it was and that I don't care enough about the subject to read all of that. I'm going to go fist my girlfriend in public and it'll be ok because I'm just expressing myself, right?
    - dang 5y ago
      We've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create accounts to do that with.
mraudiobook_com 5y ago
Walking around NYC most of the clothes the women wear would be right at home on a pride float. But when men dress the way women dress it feels wrong to most of us.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
> Consent is key to healthy BDSM practice, but the public did not consent to seeing these sexual displays (...). By wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up in broad daylight, kinksters have unethically involved non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene for their own (likely sexual) gratification. Do young people have such a warped view of consent now that wearing a leather harness in public is considered "unethically involving non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene"?? Ahh, the culture of "I am a greater victim than thou" hath no boundaries.
- mycodesucks 5y ago
  "wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up" is a bit different than just wearing a leather harness in public. But also how hard is it to just be civilized when you're in public? I don't need you to wear a suit and tie, but at least have some decency.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    It's once a year. And the idea is to fight back against stigmas that have made such behavior illegal, or grounds for being fired, or having your kids taken away. I don't know who needs to hear this, but having gay sex in the privacy of your home while you're tied up in a leather harness should not result in those consequences. Display of similar behaviors at Pride are intended to tell the larger world that they aren't going to stop being themselves. People need to grow a thicker skin and get used to the idea, so that Pride isn't necessary any longer.
  - ThePadawan 5y ago
    I personally find that the most uncivilized people always come dressed in suit and tie.
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      Like any other thing, it depends on why someone wears it. A trans man wearing a traditional man's cut to celebrate getting top surgery at pride is probably not what you had in mind though.
LForLambda 5y ago
Down
- mrlonglong 5y ago
  No it is not, and if you are representative of the majority then $deity help HN. There was a clue in one of the posts.
aphyr 5y ago
For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement. I hope you'll respect this.
- seibelj 5y ago
  That’s a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community as -phobic is very unfair.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Here's the thing though. When it's a predictable outcome that somebody in the crowd will post x-phobic responses to a given story, then it's completely unreasonable for an x-person to expect a lack of x-phobia. If you were more concerned about the frequency of x-phobia in this community, rather than taking offense at people speaking about the negative experiences at the hands of this community, perhaps the community wouldn't have the reputation that it does. Blocking on referers is a defensive move, not at all aggressive.
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  submitter, cishet dude, and long-time admirer of your work here. I posted the link because i was impressed with your usual style and level of detail and thoughtful work. it wasn’t my intention to feed the trolls; perhaps i haven’t spent enough time on Svalbard? :)
- camtarn 5y ago
  As a queer HN'er - thank you for writing and compiling this! It's quite some amount of work. Like you say, it's so important for a community to know its own history.
dang 5y ago
All: This post is on topic because of the interesting historical material. HN is for intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). If it excites stronger emotions (or sensations) in you than intellectual curiosity, please don't post to this thread. There are 28 other things on the front page to read*, and we don't want tedious flamewars here. (* maybe avoid the covid leak debate thread too)
kradeelav 5y ago
I wish I had known earlier that Brenda Howard (Mother of Pride) was leather-adjacent, if not outright identified as Leather herself. Would've been many years of shame evaporated right there had Leather history been more accessible, and on a lighter note, it always amuses me when younger folks argue against "leather at pride" not knowing her direct involvement. This was a fantastic essay, and I'm glad it was written and posted separately. Thank you. For others reading this comment, links that may be of interest and further research: - Leather Archives - (http://leatherarchives.org/ http://leatherarchives.org/) incredible museum that collects the lived history of those who found themselves in this subculture and identity. - "Leather Resources" (http://kradeelav.com/leather-resources.html http://kradeelav.com/leather-resources.html) Showcasing some of the Leather-related links that I've slowly collected over the years while trying to track down and preserve even a little bit of history. Extremely fun rabbit trails from here. :) (I write this post as a bisexual woman in a long-term relationship with another woman. Leather is the only LGBT+ label I remotely felt at home in, for many private/personal reasons.)

34 points by hprotagonist 5y ago

Came for the photos. Left disappointed.

I went to the pride parade in Seattle in ¿2012? and was disgusted by the public sexual acts that I saw. I don't know why some people weren't arrested for indecent exposure or other sex offenses. Edit: why was this flagged? Public sexual displays are not alright no matter the context

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

goatsecxkirk 5y ago

I went to the pride parade in Seattle in ¿2012? and was disgusted by the public sexual acts that I saw. I don't know why some people weren't arrested for indecent exposure or other sex offenses. Why was this comment flagged in the other thread? Public sexual displays are not alright no matter the context

hprotagonist 5y ago
you could actually read the essay, for a start: We should remember that expressions of variant sexuality are not only a form of individual expression, but also a public good. Many asexual people and families enjoy seeing leather in Pride. Leather contingents demystify the community, reduce social stigma, create opportunities to meet and talk with kinksters, and help people discover new desires. Public floggings can balance misconceptions that impact is “just about pain,” and illustrate the possibility for emotional connection. Public bondage can be an art installation. In my personal experience marching and performing scenes in public, people on the street are far more curious, supportive, and delighted to see pups in hoods and men in rope than the present discourse would have us believe. Finally: as several of the accounts in this history demonstrate, one’s own feelings about sexual displays can change dramatically over time. What was frightening or disgusting one year can be freeing, erotic, or beautiful the next. This points to the possibility of Pride as more than a space where we impose the standard norms of an imagined unitary public. As a polyvocal celebration, Pride offers us the chance not only to express ourselves, but also to see others’ expressions of a broad range of queer identities. With a little patience we can rejoice in others’ kaleidoscopic queerness—and sometimes, if we’re lucky, discover new aspects of our selves. The history of Pride is also extensively discussed and cited heavily. Scolds of your tone are at least as old as pride, and still about as tone-deaf as ever.
- goatsecxkirk 5y ago
  I started reading it and then realized how long it was and that I don't care enough about the subject to read all of that. I'm going to go fist my girlfriend in public and it'll be ok because I'm just expressing myself, right?
  - dang 5y ago
    We've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create accounts to do that with.

mraudiobook_com 5y ago

Walking around NYC most of the clothes the women wear would be right at home on a pride float. But when men dress the way women dress it feels wrong to most of us.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

> Consent is key to healthy BDSM practice, but the public did not consent to seeing these sexual displays (...). By wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up in broad daylight, kinksters have unethically involved non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene for their own (likely sexual) gratification. Do young people have such a warped view of consent now that wearing a leather harness in public is considered "unethically involving non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene"?? Ahh, the culture of "I am a greater victim than thou" hath no boundaries.

mycodesucks 5y ago
"wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up" is a bit different than just wearing a leather harness in public. But also how hard is it to just be civilized when you're in public? I don't need you to wear a suit and tie, but at least have some decency.
- 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
  It's once a year. And the idea is to fight back against stigmas that have made such behavior illegal, or grounds for being fired, or having your kids taken away. I don't know who needs to hear this, but having gay sex in the privacy of your home while you're tied up in a leather harness should not result in those consequences. Display of similar behaviors at Pride are intended to tell the larger world that they aren't going to stop being themselves. People need to grow a thicker skin and get used to the idea, so that Pride isn't necessary any longer.
- ThePadawan 5y ago
  I personally find that the most uncivilized people always come dressed in suit and tie.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    Like any other thing, it depends on why someone wears it. A trans man wearing a traditional man's cut to celebrate getting top surgery at pride is probably not what you had in mind though.

LForLambda 5y ago

Down

mrlonglong 5y ago
No it is not, and if you are representative of the majority then $deity help HN. There was a clue in one of the posts.

aphyr 5y ago

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement. I hope you'll respect this.

seibelj 5y ago
That’s a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community as -phobic is very unfair.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 5y ago
  Here's the thing though. When it's a predictable outcome that somebody in the crowd will post x-phobic responses to a given story, then it's completely unreasonable for an x-person to expect a lack of x-phobia. If you were more concerned about the frequency of x-phobia in this community, rather than taking offense at people speaking about the negative experiences at the hands of this community, perhaps the community wouldn't have the reputation that it does. Blocking on referers is a defensive move, not at all aggressive.
hprotagonist 5y ago
submitter, cishet dude, and long-time admirer of your work here. I posted the link because i was impressed with your usual style and level of detail and thoughtful work. it wasn’t my intention to feed the trolls; perhaps i haven’t spent enough time on Svalbard? :)
camtarn 5y ago
As a queer HN'er - thank you for writing and compiling this! It's quite some amount of work. Like you say, it's so important for a community to know its own history.

dang 5y ago

All: This post is on topic because of the interesting historical material. HN is for intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). If it excites stronger emotions (or sensations) in you than intellectual curiosity, please don't post to this thread. There are 28 other things on the front page to read*, and we don't want tedious flamewars here. (* maybe avoid the covid leak debate thread too)

kradeelav 5y ago

I wish I had known earlier that Brenda Howard (Mother of Pride) was leather-adjacent, if not outright identified as Leather herself. Would've been many years of shame evaporated right there had Leather history been more accessible, and on a lighter note, it always amuses me when younger folks argue against "leather at pride" not knowing her direct involvement. This was a fantastic essay, and I'm glad it was written and posted separately. Thank you. For others reading this comment, links that may be of interest and further research: - Leather Archives - (http://leatherarchives.org/ http://leatherarchives.org/) incredible museum that collects the lived history of those who found themselves in this subculture and identity. - "Leather Resources" (http://kradeelav.com/leather-resources.html http://kradeelav.com/leather-resources.html) Showcasing some of the Leather-related links that I've slowly collected over the years while trying to track down and preserve even a little bit of history. Extremely fun rabbit trails from here. :) (I write this post as a bisexual woman in a long-term relationship with another woman. Leather is the only LGBT+ label I remotely felt at home in, for many private/personal reasons.)