6 ms·

Absolutely is. I think I remember reading the theory it was to do with MS naming it such that Windows came first, and Linux last, regardless how confusing.

easton 5y ago
I doubt it, considering UNIX services for Windows was a thing for a long time.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Wait wouldn't that have to be Windows subsystem for UNIX to be consistent with WSL?
- silisili 5y ago
  You mean this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX
  - mycall 5y ago
    I always wondered if OpenNT (Softway Systems) and Xenix folks had some overlap.
TylerE 5y ago
I mean, yeah, it's weird, but it makes sense if the 2nd noun is anything that isn't an OS. Windows Subsystem for Audio, Windows Subsystem for Filesystems, etc
- skohan 5y ago
  All of these still sound awkward. "Windows Audio Subsystem", or "Audio Subsystem for Windows" both sound better. The fact that it's an audio subsystem is more descriptive than the fact that it's a windows subsystem, so it sounds strange to group it the other way.
  - will4274 5y ago
    Apple iPhone vs iPhone for Apple. Microsoft Office vs Office for Microsoft. Google Chrome vs Chrome for Google. Corporations are reluctant to put "products" without their brand name first. And they intetpret "products" as literally anything anybody with a wallet can identify. WSL makes the list.
    - jfrunyon 5y ago
      > Apple iPhone vs iPhone for Apple. The equivalent of "Apple iPhone" is, in this case, "Windows Audio Subsystem". Not "Windows Subsystem for Audio".
    - skohan 5y ago
      It's unfortunate when marketing speak enters the domain of tools. Imagine if builders had to deal with this: "Hey hank, grab me the Microsoft Screws(tm) for 3/4 inch holes"
      - einherjae 5y ago
        Philips…
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > Apple iPhone vs iPhone for Apple. Microsoft Office vs Office for Microsoft. Google Chrome vs Chrome for Google. ...none of those make any sense. Chrome isn't for Google. It's made and distributed by Google. iPhones aren't for Apple. Office isn't for Microsoft. What were you trying to say?
      - jstanley 5y ago
        In fairness, the Windows Subsystem isn't for Linux either.
        thaumasiotes 5y ago
        Huh?
- DJHenk 5y ago
  The dumb part is that they insist on including "Windows" in the name. What other subsytems would you have in Windows than Windows subsystems? The Windows part is implied. Otherwise it would not be a _sub_system, right? The only reason it is there is because some marketing idiot wanted more branding. So the Linux subsystem should be called... Linux subsystem. Searching on Google would lead to type "linux subsystem for windows" and it would not be hard for Google to direct you to the right Microsoft website.
  - bzxcvbn 5y ago
    It could be a subsystem for any one of the programs that run on Windows. For example, if it were virtualized in the browser, it could be called "Edge Subsystem for Linux". With the name WSL, the fact that it's baked directly into the OS is clear.
    - happymellon 5y ago
      > Edge Subsystem for Linux Except that it isn't for Linux. So what you wrote implies that this is baked into an OS, but in fact it isn't. It is extremely confusing.
      - bzxcvbn 5y ago
        It's a Windows subsystem. What's it for? Running Linux. It's a Windows subsystem for Linux.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >The dumb part is that they insist on including "Windows" in the name. What other subsytems would you have in Windows than Windows subsystems? The Windows part is implied. Otherwise it would not be a _sub_system, right? The only reason it is there is because some marketing idiot wanted more branding. It's not dumb to them. Microsoft is not a tech company. Microsoft is a marketing/sales company that happens to market and sell the software, services and hardware that the company makes.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
0x0nyandesu 5y ago
It's cause it's a component in windows so it's "windows: subsystem for linux"
- silisili 5y ago
  For is the most confusing word here. In most CS and product sense, 'for' means, well, intended for. Books for nerds. Language for newbies. The predicate is the audience. There's an entire 'for Dummies' line. Windows for Dummies is not...some dummy system of Windows. Windows xSystem for Linux is not for Linux. It's for Windows.
skohan 5y ago
Also it makes it sound like Linux is adopting Windows, not the other way around.
comex 5y ago
I bet it’s for legal reasons. With “Linux Subsystem for Windows”, the owner of the Linux trademark could hypothetically sue Microsoft arguing that consumers could misinterpret the name as meaning a part of Linux, or an official Linux product. “Windows Subsystem for Linux” unambiguously implies only that the software is compatible with Linux, not that it’s affiliated with it. (It still uses the trademark, but in a way that would be considered descriptive fair use.) It’s not like there’s any real chance the trademark owner in question, the Linux Foundation, would actually sue Microsoft over this, but lawyers tend to prefer safe over sorry.
- skohan 5y ago
  Then how do you explain "Rust for Windows"?
  - t0mas88 5y ago
    Same as "PHP for Windows", it's not a problem if the trademark owner agrees. And they typically would if the thing is the actual Rust / PHP running on Windows. The problem with "Linux subsystem for Windows" is that the Linux people were not involved and the thing isn't a normal Linux. So there is much more risk of a trademark dispute in that case.
    - skohan 5y ago
      If I'm not mistaken, the "rust people" were not involved in "Rust for windows". It's just a normal rust crate which wraps the windows API, developed by Microsoft. That's part of what makes this kind of naming so confusing. "Rust for Windows" sounds like some kind of development in the rust language in the direction of supporting windows, but it's just a library. I can imagine a trademark holder taking issue with something like this. For instance, imagine the Ford auto compnay marketed their USB port, which you can plug an iPhone into, as "iPhone for Ford Trucks". edit: Look at the title in the Rust for Windows github: https://github.com/microsoft/windows-rs https://github.com/microsoft/windows-rs > Rust for the Windows SDK What does that even mean? "Rust implementation of the Windows SDK API", or "Rust Wrapper for the Windows SDK" would make sense, but this phrasing is completely foreign to anyone doing software.
HappyTypist 5y ago
Windows Linux Layer
hyperupcall 5y ago
I don't understand the confusion. I thought it was called WSL because WSL1 was just that - a Windows subsystem that acted as a sort of compatibility later for Linux. And then when they released WSL2 (which replaced the old model with a Hyper-V accelerated VM running Linux), there was no real reason to rename it and create confusion.

easton 5y ago

I doubt it, considering UNIX services for Windows was a thing for a long time.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Wait wouldn't that have to be Windows subsystem for UNIX to be consistent with WSL?
silisili 5y ago
You mean this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX
- mycall 5y ago
  I always wondered if OpenNT (Softway Systems) and Xenix folks had some overlap.

TylerE 5y ago

I mean, yeah, it's weird, but it makes sense if the 2nd noun is anything that isn't an OS. Windows Subsystem for Audio, Windows Subsystem for Filesystems, etc

skohan 5y ago
All of these still sound awkward. "Windows Audio Subsystem", or "Audio Subsystem for Windows" both sound better. The fact that it's an audio subsystem is more descriptive than the fact that it's a windows subsystem, so it sounds strange to group it the other way.
- will4274 5y ago
  Apple iPhone vs iPhone for Apple. Microsoft Office vs Office for Microsoft. Google Chrome vs Chrome for Google. Corporations are reluctant to put "products" without their brand name first. And they intetpret "products" as literally anything anybody with a wallet can identify. WSL makes the list.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    > Apple iPhone vs iPhone for Apple. The equivalent of "Apple iPhone" is, in this case, "Windows Audio Subsystem". Not "Windows Subsystem for Audio".
  - skohan 5y ago
    It's unfortunate when marketing speak enters the domain of tools. Imagine if builders had to deal with this: "Hey hank, grab me the Microsoft Screws(tm) for 3/4 inch holes"
    - einherjae 5y ago
      Philips…
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Apple iPhone vs iPhone for Apple. Microsoft Office vs Office for Microsoft. Google Chrome vs Chrome for Google. ...none of those make any sense. Chrome isn't for Google. It's made and distributed by Google. iPhones aren't for Apple. Office isn't for Microsoft. What were you trying to say?
    - jstanley 5y ago
      In fairness, the Windows Subsystem isn't for Linux either.
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        Huh?
DJHenk 5y ago
The dumb part is that they insist on including "Windows" in the name. What other subsytems would you have in Windows than Windows subsystems? The Windows part is implied. Otherwise it would not be a _sub_system, right? The only reason it is there is because some marketing idiot wanted more branding. So the Linux subsystem should be called... Linux subsystem. Searching on Google would lead to type "linux subsystem for windows" and it would not be hard for Google to direct you to the right Microsoft website.
- bzxcvbn 5y ago
  It could be a subsystem for any one of the programs that run on Windows. For example, if it were virtualized in the browser, it could be called "Edge Subsystem for Linux". With the name WSL, the fact that it's baked directly into the OS is clear.
  - happymellon 5y ago
    > Edge Subsystem for Linux Except that it isn't for Linux. So what you wrote implies that this is baked into an OS, but in fact it isn't. It is extremely confusing.
    - bzxcvbn 5y ago
      It's a Windows subsystem. What's it for? Running Linux. It's a Windows subsystem for Linux.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >The dumb part is that they insist on including "Windows" in the name. What other subsytems would you have in Windows than Windows subsystems? The Windows part is implied. Otherwise it would not be a _sub_system, right? The only reason it is there is because some marketing idiot wanted more branding. It's not dumb to them. Microsoft is not a tech company. Microsoft is a marketing/sales company that happens to market and sell the software, services and hardware that the company makes.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

0x0nyandesu 5y ago

It's cause it's a component in windows so it's "windows: subsystem for linux"

silisili 5y ago
For is the most confusing word here. In most CS and product sense, 'for' means, well, intended for. Books for nerds. Language for newbies. The predicate is the audience. There's an entire 'for Dummies' line. Windows for Dummies is not...some dummy system of Windows. Windows xSystem for Linux is not for Linux. It's for Windows.

skohan 5y ago

Also it makes it sound like Linux is adopting Windows, not the other way around.

comex 5y ago

I bet it’s for legal reasons. With “Linux Subsystem for Windows”, the owner of the Linux trademark could hypothetically sue Microsoft arguing that consumers could misinterpret the name as meaning a part of Linux, or an official Linux product. “Windows Subsystem for Linux” unambiguously implies only that the software is compatible with Linux, not that it’s affiliated with it. (It still uses the trademark, but in a way that would be considered descriptive fair use.) It’s not like there’s any real chance the trademark owner in question, the Linux Foundation, would actually sue Microsoft over this, but lawyers tend to prefer safe over sorry.

skohan 5y ago
Then how do you explain "Rust for Windows"?
- t0mas88 5y ago
  Same as "PHP for Windows", it's not a problem if the trademark owner agrees. And they typically would if the thing is the actual Rust / PHP running on Windows. The problem with "Linux subsystem for Windows" is that the Linux people were not involved and the thing isn't a normal Linux. So there is much more risk of a trademark dispute in that case.
  - skohan 5y ago
    If I'm not mistaken, the "rust people" were not involved in "Rust for windows". It's just a normal rust crate which wraps the windows API, developed by Microsoft. That's part of what makes this kind of naming so confusing. "Rust for Windows" sounds like some kind of development in the rust language in the direction of supporting windows, but it's just a library. I can imagine a trademark holder taking issue with something like this. For instance, imagine the Ford auto compnay marketed their USB port, which you can plug an iPhone into, as "iPhone for Ford Trucks". edit: Look at the title in the Rust for Windows github: https://github.com/microsoft/windows-rs https://github.com/microsoft/windows-rs > Rust for the Windows SDK What does that even mean? "Rust implementation of the Windows SDK API", or "Rust Wrapper for the Windows SDK" would make sense, but this phrasing is completely foreign to anyone doing software.

HappyTypist 5y ago

Windows Linux Layer

hyperupcall 5y ago

I don't understand the confusion. I thought it was called WSL because WSL1 was just that - a Windows subsystem that acted as a sort of compatibility later for Linux. And then when they released WSL2 (which replaced the old model with a Hyper-V accelerated VM running Linux), there was no real reason to rename it and create confusion.