4 ms·

Regime collapse doesn't mean something better will replace it. Russia collapsed end of the 80s, but what replaced it leaves a lot to be desired...

by ako 5y ago

baybal2 5y ago
And it did, because the West left half way, and never backed Yelzin at finally dismantling the system. It was critical. And after he had his second stroke, he was a walking vegetable basically, and the opportunity was lost. You are very demoralised.
jacquesm 5y ago
Well, yes. But for Russia's former satellite states things definitely improved.
- nzmsv 5y ago
  I think you cherry-picked here. You are thinking about the Baltics and forgetting about places like Uzbekistan (now broke) and Kazakhstan (rich but authoritarian). And even if you say these are former republics rather than satellites, think of the mess that is Serbia. The fall of the USSR may have been overall a good thing and even inevitable, as with any huge disruption it was not an unequivocal good thing for every single person.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    > huge disruption it was not an unequivocal good thing for every single person. I think even in the Central Asian North Korea — Uzbekistan, a person now lives more freely, and richer than the wealthiest USSR citizens did.
    - sannysanoff 5y ago
      Have you ever googled, bro? >> After the collapse of the USSR, economic reforms were not fully implemented in Uzbekistan, conditions for the development of medium and small businesses were not created, corruption took root, and unemployment increased. Many wonder: if it is better now than in the past, why have about two to five million Uzbek citizens left their country in search of work? via bbs.com (!!!) https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/10/141015_uzbekistan_independence_soviet_past https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/10/141015_uzb... .. and where do you think they migrated to, from their country that is on its way to Middle Ages? To Putin's dark regime's Russia, nowhere else, working there as construction and road workers etc. You've got a good chance to compare your reality with real reality, my friend.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        > Have you ever googled, bro? I didn't, but I know this better than you. Uzbekistan, a North Korea redux it be, but you can 1. now get a coca cola there. 2. food is on the shelves, including meat 3. buy property, instead of being shot for doing so 4. leave the country, back in USSR there were no option to go work anywhere as a construction worker to earn real cash. If you really like your USSR wonderland communist paradise, please go. The immigration route to North Korea, or Cuba is open for you.
        nzmsv 5y ago
        All those Uzbeks shot for buying property should rise from the grave and haunt you for being such a troll. Must be millions of them. You should be very afraid. But maybe a Coca Cola mist will keep them at bay? Maybe if you chant Adam Smith's name while you do it?
  - adventured 5y ago
    > I think you cherry-picked here. You are thinking about the Baltics and forgetting about places like Uzbekistan The parent did not cherry pick, they didn't go far enough. It was overwhelmingly positive regardless of Kazakhstan or Serbia. East Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      Estonia represses 7% of its population.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        It represses it so much, that the repressed ethnic Russians gang up, and go lighting up the Russian embassy from time to time, as a gratitude for Mr. Putin's attempts at "liberating" them.
        lostmsu 5y ago
        We are probably talking about two different 7% of people. Your comment is also beside the point. Russia is likely no better than Estonia. It does not mean Estonia is not worse than other EU countries, including former members of USSR.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    East Germany, Baltics, Poland, Romania and many others.
oytis 5y ago
In post cold war Europe it was mostly the case. Russia is a lot less of a threat to the world, and its own citizens. I for one could freely leave Russia, which would require non-trivial effort in USSR.

Regime collapse doesn't mean something better will replace it. Russia collapsed end of the 80s, but what replaced it leaves a lot to be desired...

by ako 5y ago

Regime collapse doesn't mean something better will replace it. Russia collapsed end of the 80s, but what replaced it leaves a lot to be desired...

baybal2 5y ago

And it did, because the West left half way, and never backed Yelzin at finally dismantling the system. It was critical. And after he had his second stroke, he was a walking vegetable basically, and the opportunity was lost. You are very demoralised.

jacquesm 5y ago

Well, yes. But for Russia's former satellite states things definitely improved.

nzmsv 5y ago
I think you cherry-picked here. You are thinking about the Baltics and forgetting about places like Uzbekistan (now broke) and Kazakhstan (rich but authoritarian). And even if you say these are former republics rather than satellites, think of the mess that is Serbia. The fall of the USSR may have been overall a good thing and even inevitable, as with any huge disruption it was not an unequivocal good thing for every single person.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > huge disruption it was not an unequivocal good thing for every single person. I think even in the Central Asian North Korea — Uzbekistan, a person now lives more freely, and richer than the wealthiest USSR citizens did.
  - sannysanoff 5y ago
    Have you ever googled, bro? >> After the collapse of the USSR, economic reforms were not fully implemented in Uzbekistan, conditions for the development of medium and small businesses were not created, corruption took root, and unemployment increased. Many wonder: if it is better now than in the past, why have about two to five million Uzbek citizens left their country in search of work? via bbs.com (!!!) https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/10/141015_uzbekistan_independence_soviet_past https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/10/141015_uzb... .. and where do you think they migrated to, from their country that is on its way to Middle Ages? To Putin's dark regime's Russia, nowhere else, working there as construction and road workers etc. You've got a good chance to compare your reality with real reality, my friend.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      > Have you ever googled, bro? I didn't, but I know this better than you. Uzbekistan, a North Korea redux it be, but you can 1. now get a coca cola there. 2. food is on the shelves, including meat 3. buy property, instead of being shot for doing so 4. leave the country, back in USSR there were no option to go work anywhere as a construction worker to earn real cash. If you really like your USSR wonderland communist paradise, please go. The immigration route to North Korea, or Cuba is open for you.
      - nzmsv 5y ago
        All those Uzbeks shot for buying property should rise from the grave and haunt you for being such a troll. Must be millions of them. You should be very afraid. But maybe a Coca Cola mist will keep them at bay? Maybe if you chant Adam Smith's name while you do it?
- adventured 5y ago
  > I think you cherry-picked here. You are thinking about the Baltics and forgetting about places like Uzbekistan The parent did not cherry pick, they didn't go far enough. It was overwhelmingly positive regardless of Kazakhstan or Serbia. East Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    Estonia represses 7% of its population.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      It represses it so much, that the repressed ethnic Russians gang up, and go lighting up the Russian embassy from time to time, as a gratitude for Mr. Putin's attempts at "liberating" them.
      - lostmsu 5y ago
        We are probably talking about two different 7% of people. Your comment is also beside the point. Russia is likely no better than Estonia. It does not mean Estonia is not worse than other EU countries, including former members of USSR.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  East Germany, Baltics, Poland, Romania and many others.

oytis 5y ago

In post cold war Europe it was mostly the case. Russia is a lot less of a threat to the world, and its own citizens. I for one could freely leave Russia, which would require non-trivial effort in USSR.