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Thank you for the detailed response. I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself

Thank you for the detailed response. I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with". Hence small caliber, lots of noise/attempts and if - god forbid - anything connected it would still hurt/slow them. I never really contemplated a "someone intent on killing you" scenario. It isn't something I think of much and I appreciate that clearly people have. From your comments it seems clear that "stopping power" holds more of a place in conversations. It is interesting that 22lr hasn't really been technologically updated. But I guess there would be interoperability issues and a "chicken(gun) and the egg(ammo)" scenario to overcome from a commercial point of view.

ashtonkem 5y ago
> I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with". Generally the rule on such matters is that there is no such thing as a warning shot, both ethically and legally. For the same reason that shooting for the legs is a bad idea, bringing a lower caliber firearm to warn someone off is kind of a no-no. You should either be shooting to end the engagement, or not shooting at all. Obviously retreating from an encounter is always the best course of action (and a legal obligation in some states) if possible. > It is interesting that 22lr hasn't really been technologically updated. 22lr has seen tons of advancement, just not as much in the realm of terminal ballistics. There is incredibly intense competition for more accurate and consistent 22lr ammo, as this is the caliber used for a lot of olympic shooting and some increasingly popular non-olympic competitions. Fundamentally, it's really not possible to squeeze much more energy out of 22lr. Every production cartridge has a set maximum pressure and firearms are certified for this pressure by nation specific proof houses. For 22lr the max pressure is about 72% the pressure of a 9mm[0]. Squeezing more terminal power out of this cartridge would risk catastrophic firearm damage and probably company liability. Making matters worse is the fact that semi-automatic (e.g. handgun) firearm design changes pretty radically around or above 380ACP pressures. Above that firearms must have some sort of mechanism to delay opening until chamber pressures fall to a safe level, otherwise cartridges will potentially rupture during extraction and hurt the shooter. All 22lr pistols are of a much simpler design that improves accuracy and lowers price, but makes getting 9mm pressures into an existing 22lr handgun an impossible task. Much easier still to just start with a 9mm, since those work and are well understood. Also, it's a rimfire cartridge, and that's undesirable for a variety of reasons I'm too tired to explain right now. 0 - 64% of the higher spec +P ammo.
solidsnack9000 5y ago
It has been technologically updated -- they do improve the tolerances and consistency, introduce wear reducing coatings, and stuff like that -- but it is fundamentally a small, light bullet in a tiny case. That's what defines it, so there's just not much more power you can get out of it.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Also, rimfire is pretty close to a dead end technology. 17hmr is probably the last mainstream rimfire caliber we’ll see in our lifetime.
unanswered 5y ago
> I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with". Hence small caliber, lots of noise/attempts and if - god forbid - anything connected it would still hurt/slow them. This constitutes the crime of brandishing. You should not own any weapons if you can't keep from fantasizing committing crimes with them.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

ashtonkem 5y ago

> I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with". Generally the rule on such matters is that there is no such thing as a warning shot, both ethically and legally. For the same reason that shooting for the legs is a bad idea, bringing a lower caliber firearm to warn someone off is kind of a no-no. You should either be shooting to end the engagement, or not shooting at all. Obviously retreating from an encounter is always the best course of action (and a legal obligation in some states) if possible. > It is interesting that 22lr hasn't really been technologically updated. 22lr has seen tons of advancement, just not as much in the realm of terminal ballistics. There is incredibly intense competition for more accurate and consistent 22lr ammo, as this is the caliber used for a lot of olympic shooting and some increasingly popular non-olympic competitions. Fundamentally, it's really not possible to squeeze much more energy out of 22lr. Every production cartridge has a set maximum pressure and firearms are certified for this pressure by nation specific proof houses. For 22lr the max pressure is about 72% the pressure of a 9mm[0]. Squeezing more terminal power out of this cartridge would risk catastrophic firearm damage and probably company liability. Making matters worse is the fact that semi-automatic (e.g. handgun) firearm design changes pretty radically around or above 380ACP pressures. Above that firearms must have some sort of mechanism to delay opening until chamber pressures fall to a safe level, otherwise cartridges will potentially rupture during extraction and hurt the shooter. All 22lr pistols are of a much simpler design that improves accuracy and lowers price, but makes getting 9mm pressures into an existing 22lr handgun an impossible task. Much easier still to just start with a 9mm, since those work and are well understood. Also, it's a rimfire cartridge, and that's undesirable for a variety of reasons I'm too tired to explain right now. 0 - 64% of the higher spec +P ammo.

solidsnack9000 5y ago

It has been technologically updated -- they do improve the tolerances and consistency, introduce wear reducing coatings, and stuff like that -- but it is fundamentally a small, light bullet in a tiny case. That's what defines it, so there's just not much more power you can get out of it.

ashtonkem 5y ago
Also, rimfire is pretty close to a dead end technology. 17hmr is probably the last mainstream rimfire caliber we’ll see in our lifetime.

unanswered 5y ago

> I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with". Hence small caliber, lots of noise/attempts and if - god forbid - anything connected it would still hurt/slow them. This constitutes the crime of brandishing. You should not own any weapons if you can't keep from fantasizing committing crimes with them.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]