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I think we are lucky to have Peter Thiel. Remember who funded the leading fusion company, who funded spacex, who first raised the alarm about possible war with

I think we are lucky to have Peter Thiel. Remember who funded the leading fusion company, who funded spacex, who first raised the alarm about possible war with china, who funded longevity in the dark times when nobody wanted to help, who funded MIRI when nobody else was really thinking about AI risk. Who exactly is this Chafkin guy? I think he got famous from profiling Elon Musk and now is going after his friends, it is just entry-level backstabbing from a piece of shit careerist.

maxvulpini 5y ago
'the disruption-preaching power broker is revealed as just another rich guy desperate to keep his fortune from the IRS.' Why the fuck would you not want to minimize your tax via legal methods?! Your bank literally advises you to do this. Insanity.
api 5y ago
My suspicion for quite a while has been that Thiel supports the far right for entirely pragmatic reasons. He may not necessarily agree with them intellectually on much at all, but he sees them as a tool to maintain what he sees as a market and regulatory regime that is helpful to innovation and entrepreneurship. I mean he's gay, seems to be at least an agnostic if not an atheist, and funds things that would benefit from measures to control climate change (like solar, batteries, EVs, and fusion). His identity and actions don't overlap much with the ideology of the far right in most areas. A less charitable way of putting it would be that Thiel sees the far right as "useful idiots." I am not making a value judgement either way, just neutrally putting forward my own speculation on his motives. It's just speculation of course. He seems to like to keep what he really thinks close to his chest.
- maxvulpini 5y ago
  Thanks for engaging. Well, Thiel has definitely been anti-left long before the far right were even a thing. I mean, check out his book ripping on the wokes (https://www.amazon.com/Diversity-Myth-Multiculturalism-Political-Intolerance/dp/0945999763 https://www.amazon.com/Diversity-Myth-Multiculturalism-Polit...) -- written in 1995! The Left/Right classification is just very restrictive. You will find people like Balaji Srinivasan who fall in Thiel's category. It might just be logical. I was in a similar mindset to you recently (cynical about people's motivations), but I think the reality is that ideology and incentives just tend to align for people, and if even if some unscrupulus person faked holding an ideology for practical reasons they actually end up becoming that thing. I can see what you're saying about the very very far right... but are they really idiots? It seems like they are winning in some respect, so they can't be that dumb. And nobody is going to line up with your ideology 100%, Thiel's positions are usually contrarian so people who agree with him are always going to be seen as dumb or crazy or unpleasant. I WISH Thiel were that machievellian (maybe the useful stuff would happen faster) but I just don't think he is.
- csilverman 5y ago
  Agreed, although I think that while Thiel might not be a stereotypical Bible-thumping Trump supporter, his libertarian leanings place him significantly closer to far-right anti-government types than his polished cosmopolitan-technocrat side might lead one to believe. Also worth remembering that a lot of rich and powerful gay guys really are pretty conservative, and aren't that concerned with traditional liberal ideologies overall. I'd say being rich—and white, and a man—insulates them from many of the hardships that get people thinking about social justice; if you and your friends aren't treated badly on a regular basis, you could easily forget that other people are. (Especially if you're very wealthy and would like to keep it that way.)
  - maxvulpini 5y ago
    > insulates them from many of the hardships that get people thinking about social justice He grew up in Pretoria and it sounds like he had a pretty rough time. And it's hard to argue that he's having an easy time now, the press has been personality-assassinating him since the early 2000s when Gawker outed him as gay when he was in Saudi Arabia, where gay people are often punished by the death penalty... My 2 cents is that he cares about humanist values quite a bit, but just doesn't think the wokes are going about it the right way.
    - api 5y ago
      > when Gawker outed him as gay when he was in Saudi Arabia, where gay people are often punished by the death penalty... This is why I have never held the Gawker thing against him. That little detail didn't make it into any of the articles I saw on the subject, and it makes Gawker's behavior really low. Also: if he were female, outing him this way would properly be considered sexual harassment. Publishing a sex tape without permission, which they did to Hogan, is basically sexual assault. Gawker was sleazy as hell and deserved what they got.
      - csilverman 5y ago
        Same. I have very few positive feelings towards either Thiel or Hogan, but I've always thought Gawker was disgusting—the left-wing equivalent of any far-right blog you want to name—and I wasn't sorry to see the end of them.

maxvulpini 5y ago

'the disruption-preaching power broker is revealed as just another rich guy desperate to keep his fortune from the IRS.' Why the fuck would you not want to minimize your tax via legal methods?! Your bank literally advises you to do this. Insanity.

api 5y ago

My suspicion for quite a while has been that Thiel supports the far right for entirely pragmatic reasons. He may not necessarily agree with them intellectually on much at all, but he sees them as a tool to maintain what he sees as a market and regulatory regime that is helpful to innovation and entrepreneurship. I mean he's gay, seems to be at least an agnostic if not an atheist, and funds things that would benefit from measures to control climate change (like solar, batteries, EVs, and fusion). His identity and actions don't overlap much with the ideology of the far right in most areas. A less charitable way of putting it would be that Thiel sees the far right as "useful idiots." I am not making a value judgement either way, just neutrally putting forward my own speculation on his motives. It's just speculation of course. He seems to like to keep what he really thinks close to his chest.

maxvulpini 5y ago
Thanks for engaging. Well, Thiel has definitely been anti-left long before the far right were even a thing. I mean, check out his book ripping on the wokes (https://www.amazon.com/Diversity-Myth-Multiculturalism-Political-Intolerance/dp/0945999763 https://www.amazon.com/Diversity-Myth-Multiculturalism-Polit...) -- written in 1995! The Left/Right classification is just very restrictive. You will find people like Balaji Srinivasan who fall in Thiel's category. It might just be logical. I was in a similar mindset to you recently (cynical about people's motivations), but I think the reality is that ideology and incentives just tend to align for people, and if even if some unscrupulus person faked holding an ideology for practical reasons they actually end up becoming that thing. I can see what you're saying about the very very far right... but are they really idiots? It seems like they are winning in some respect, so they can't be that dumb. And nobody is going to line up with your ideology 100%, Thiel's positions are usually contrarian so people who agree with him are always going to be seen as dumb or crazy or unpleasant. I WISH Thiel were that machievellian (maybe the useful stuff would happen faster) but I just don't think he is.
csilverman 5y ago
Agreed, although I think that while Thiel might not be a stereotypical Bible-thumping Trump supporter, his libertarian leanings place him significantly closer to far-right anti-government types than his polished cosmopolitan-technocrat side might lead one to believe. Also worth remembering that a lot of rich and powerful gay guys really are pretty conservative, and aren't that concerned with traditional liberal ideologies overall. I'd say being rich—and white, and a man—insulates them from many of the hardships that get people thinking about social justice; if you and your friends aren't treated badly on a regular basis, you could easily forget that other people are. (Especially if you're very wealthy and would like to keep it that way.)
- maxvulpini 5y ago
  > insulates them from many of the hardships that get people thinking about social justice He grew up in Pretoria and it sounds like he had a pretty rough time. And it's hard to argue that he's having an easy time now, the press has been personality-assassinating him since the early 2000s when Gawker outed him as gay when he was in Saudi Arabia, where gay people are often punished by the death penalty... My 2 cents is that he cares about humanist values quite a bit, but just doesn't think the wokes are going about it the right way.
  - api 5y ago
    > when Gawker outed him as gay when he was in Saudi Arabia, where gay people are often punished by the death penalty... This is why I have never held the Gawker thing against him. That little detail didn't make it into any of the articles I saw on the subject, and it makes Gawker's behavior really low. Also: if he were female, outing him this way would properly be considered sexual harassment. Publishing a sex tape without permission, which they did to Hogan, is basically sexual assault. Gawker was sleazy as hell and deserved what they got.
    - csilverman 5y ago
      Same. I have very few positive feelings towards either Thiel or Hogan, but I've always thought Gawker was disgusting—the left-wing equivalent of any far-right blog you want to name—and I wasn't sorry to see the end of them.