4 ms·

"we are not interested in ever selling it." I know very little about Mullvad specifically, but my general presumption when an organization says this, it means

by mbesto 5y ago

"we are not interested in ever selling it." I know very little about Mullvad specifically, but my general presumption when an organization says this, it means the opposite. Everyone has a price.

daniel-cussen 5y ago
In economic theory, yes, everyone has a price.
- vibrio 5y ago
  That price isn’t always denominated in money. There are people that value altruism or other motivations.
- JoachimS 5y ago
  That is why it isn't a scientific theory. It is an assumption.
chmod775 5y ago
> Everyone has a price. No. You really can't buy some people. Either because they already have more money than they know how to use, or because they have, you know, principles.
- shawnz 5y ago
  Money can be used to better realize your principles. It's sort of like the trolley problem. What if you were being offered so much money that you felt you could achieve a greater net good with it than without?
  - chmod775 5y ago
    > What if you were being offered so much money that you felt you could achieve a greater net good with it than without? "The ends don't justify the means" is also a principle. And it's a good one. 'Many a great evil has been done in the name of good' etc. If someone won't kill their grandma for one billion dollars, they probably won't do it for 10 billion either.
    - mbesto 5y ago
      I think you're arguing something entirely differently. > And it's a good one. You're acting as if myself or the parent comment think everyone in business is evil. AFAIK you have no intimate knowledge about the founders and their motivations or what they believe to be "good", seemingly that they have some benevolent worldy principled intentions. At no point am I arguing that people don't have principles, just that those principles may manifest themselves in different ways (as the parent pointed out, the owners might sell and start a non profit privacy based solution, just like, ya know, Brian Acton did)
      - chmod775 5y ago
        I was responding to what I quoted in my initial comment. And I meant what I said, nothing more, nothing less. Please don't ascribe things to me that I did not say. Thanks a bunch. We're here to evaluate whether the statement "Everyone has a price." (emphasis yours) is true or not and I have no interest in anything beyond that. After all that's the part of your post I quoted.
- simonebrunozzi 5y ago
  You can negative-buy someone. Meaning: you can pay other "actors" to make their life so miserable that they will consider selling (or conceding whatever you would be asking of them). In that sense, everyone has a price. It just doesn't necessarily go directly in their pockets.
  - chmod775 5y ago
    Even so I know for a fact this won't work on everyone. Whatever you may do to them or offer them. As long as there is people willing to literally die for a cause, this won't change.
zxlk21e 5y ago
This doesn't seem like the best heuristic. Your automatic interpretation of "we are not interested in selling" is "we are interested in selling"?
- mbesto 5y ago
  I'm being slightly facetious. I don't know why Mullvad issued a notice to talk about ownership, but I presume it was because they've gotten alot of M&A interest or it's a marketing move to garner trust from their client-base (i.e. others are getting distrust for selling). I know more examples of companies who publicly say they're not interested in selling that do than those that don't. In other words, why be public about it?[0] Clearly there is M&A interest for a company like this. Do you know any for-profit orgs that say publicly they aren't selling and actually don't? Most I know simply aren't public about it. [0] - Btw - one M&A trick to drive up a valuation is to say you're not for sale. So yes this heuristic is absolutely valid in that sense.
  - brendoelfrendo 5y ago
    Probably because ExpressVPN announced their sale to Make the other day. They took advantage of the situation to day "hi, you can trust us because we're more principled than that," to both their existing customers and ExpressVPN users who want to jump ship.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    Upvoted because you have good points, but I thought I'd address one thing. > I don't know why Mullvad issued a notice to talk about ownership The reason is probably because ExpressVPN was just bought by Kape. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28552731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28552731
    - mbesto 5y ago
      Got it. Makes sense. > Upvoted because you have good points I have a feeling people are downvoting me because they think people are bad/evil for wanting money. Weird.

by mbesto 5y ago

"we are not interested in ever selling it." I know very little about Mullvad specifically, but my general presumption when an organization says this, it means the opposite. Everyone has a price.

daniel-cussen 5y ago

In economic theory, yes, everyone has a price.

vibrio 5y ago
That price isn’t always denominated in money. There are people that value altruism or other motivations.
JoachimS 5y ago
That is why it isn't a scientific theory. It is an assumption.

chmod775 5y ago

> Everyone has a price. No. You really can't buy some people. Either because they already have more money than they know how to use, or because they have, you know, principles.

shawnz 5y ago
Money can be used to better realize your principles. It's sort of like the trolley problem. What if you were being offered so much money that you felt you could achieve a greater net good with it than without?
- chmod775 5y ago
  > What if you were being offered so much money that you felt you could achieve a greater net good with it than without? "The ends don't justify the means" is also a principle. And it's a good one. 'Many a great evil has been done in the name of good' etc. If someone won't kill their grandma for one billion dollars, they probably won't do it for 10 billion either.
  - mbesto 5y ago
    I think you're arguing something entirely differently. > And it's a good one. You're acting as if myself or the parent comment think everyone in business is evil. AFAIK you have no intimate knowledge about the founders and their motivations or what they believe to be "good", seemingly that they have some benevolent worldy principled intentions. At no point am I arguing that people don't have principles, just that those principles may manifest themselves in different ways (as the parent pointed out, the owners might sell and start a non profit privacy based solution, just like, ya know, Brian Acton did)
    - chmod775 5y ago
      I was responding to what I quoted in my initial comment. And I meant what I said, nothing more, nothing less. Please don't ascribe things to me that I did not say. Thanks a bunch. We're here to evaluate whether the statement "Everyone has a price." (emphasis yours) is true or not and I have no interest in anything beyond that. After all that's the part of your post I quoted.
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
You can negative-buy someone. Meaning: you can pay other "actors" to make their life so miserable that they will consider selling (or conceding whatever you would be asking of them). In that sense, everyone has a price. It just doesn't necessarily go directly in their pockets.
- chmod775 5y ago
  Even so I know for a fact this won't work on everyone. Whatever you may do to them or offer them. As long as there is people willing to literally die for a cause, this won't change.

zxlk21e 5y ago

This doesn't seem like the best heuristic. Your automatic interpretation of "we are not interested in selling" is "we are interested in selling"?

mbesto 5y ago
I'm being slightly facetious. I don't know why Mullvad issued a notice to talk about ownership, but I presume it was because they've gotten alot of M&A interest or it's a marketing move to garner trust from their client-base (i.e. others are getting distrust for selling). I know more examples of companies who publicly say they're not interested in selling that do than those that don't. In other words, why be public about it?[0] Clearly there is M&A interest for a company like this. Do you know any for-profit orgs that say publicly they aren't selling and actually don't? Most I know simply aren't public about it. [0] - Btw - one M&A trick to drive up a valuation is to say you're not for sale. So yes this heuristic is absolutely valid in that sense.
- brendoelfrendo 5y ago
  Probably because ExpressVPN announced their sale to Make the other day. They took advantage of the situation to day "hi, you can trust us because we're more principled than that," to both their existing customers and ExpressVPN users who want to jump ship.
- ghoward 5y ago
  Upvoted because you have good points, but I thought I'd address one thing. > I don't know why Mullvad issued a notice to talk about ownership The reason is probably because ExpressVPN was just bought by Kape. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28552731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28552731
  - mbesto 5y ago
    Got it. Makes sense. > Upvoted because you have good points I have a feeling people are downvoting me because they think people are bad/evil for wanting money. Weird.