5 ms·

It sounds like you just disagree with the tradeoff between liberty and safety, then. But it does lower transmission, and flashing a card before you go into a ba

by jowday 5y ago

It sounds like you just disagree with the tradeoff between liberty and safety, then. But it does lower transmission, and flashing a card before you go into a bar the same way you flash your driver's license isn't as onerous as the weird government pod scenario you outlined above. >unhealthy, unclean, even dangerous. This is probably how I'd describe wilfully unvaccinated people, yeah. Also curious where you got the 100 million number from - AFAICT there have been 40 million covid infections in the US.

throwawayfear 5y ago
Over 100 million Americans have superior antibodies from past covid. Why would you WILLINGLY describe those like that who refuse the vaccination as unhealthy, unclean, and even dangerous? Unless you're naive and don't know history? Or perhaps you simply keep ignoring the links being provided because you've been tricked by the narrative and it feels good to be tribal/partisan about it as if it's a matter of politics? It won't be long now until everyone has antibodies one way or another, yet people falling for the "vax vs unvax" narrative are going to create a problem much worse than covid if they insist on drawing battle lines and inching closer and closer to full-on dehumanization of tens of millions. Source for how many people had covid: https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/one-three-americans-already-had-covid-19-end-2020 https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news... Anew study published in the journal Nature estimates that 103 million Americans, or 31 percent of the U.S. population, had been infected with SARS-CoV-2 by the end of 2020 The number you mentioned is the number verified, but based on the modeling of infection rates and spread they've come up with the bigger number. It will keep getting bigger. In any case, "flashing a card" to go into a bar is the precipice of the slippery slope. And yes, it's slippery. It doesn't take much effort to see the writing on the wall and observe the tyranny emerging in other places. If you're not simply ignorant to history and being tricked by the narrative, at least be honest about what you actually want - which is to control others. Don't try to pass it off as being concerned about health though, I wasn't born yesterday.
- jowday 5y ago
  I missed your link in the parent - if there's plenty of evidence that getting the vaccine is actually more risky for a certain group than not getting it, sure, let's avoid giving them the vaccine. It should be obvious that when I say "willingly unvaccinated" I mean people who aren't at risk or have a condition that prevents them from getting vaccinated who refuse it. >If you're not simply ignorant to history and being tricked by the narrative, at least be honest about what you actually want - which is to control others. I want to keep myself and my loved ones safe - I've got 3 different family members who are both vulnerable to COVID and require in-home care. It's not feasible for them to self-isolate.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    Virtually nobody is at higher risk from vaccination than the disease.
    - throwawayfear 5y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r... https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-popul... That's 25 million people in the USA alone, and that's just based on the data we have right now. Virtually no one? And you ignore that the people with antibodies from natural immunity don't need it. See the links in the parent comments I posted.
- ikr678 5y ago
  Natural Immunity might confer more protection to the individual against covid, but it's a terrible public health policy position if your goal is protect as many people as possible while you have perfectly good vaccines available. For those 100m Americans to get that immunity, you had to have a lot of deaths and externalities pushed onto your hospital systems along the way. Healthcare staffing costs are shooting up, health insurance costs will likely rise across the board. Pressure from the delta waves are going to leave a lot of residual costs in the system, and it largely preventable. Vax passports/documentatio is a whole separate issue, but I'll never understand why Americans are so adamantly against preventative healthcare measures.
jrs235 5y ago
40 million REPORTED COVID infections... Two family members had positive tests REPORTED (they got tested). Three others got symptoms (it WAS COVID) while quarantining but never got tested (therefore never got REPORTED). Only 40% (of those in this household) got REPORTED.
nradov 5y ago
Your number is way off. The CDC estimates that 120M Americans have been infected as of July (more by now). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

by jowday 5y ago

throwawayfear 5y ago

Over 100 million Americans have superior antibodies from past covid. Why would you WILLINGLY describe those like that who refuse the vaccination as unhealthy, unclean, and even dangerous? Unless you're naive and don't know history? Or perhaps you simply keep ignoring the links being provided because you've been tricked by the narrative and it feels good to be tribal/partisan about it as if it's a matter of politics? It won't be long now until everyone has antibodies one way or another, yet people falling for the "vax vs unvax" narrative are going to create a problem much worse than covid if they insist on drawing battle lines and inching closer and closer to full-on dehumanization of tens of millions. Source for how many people had covid: https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/one-three-americans-already-had-covid-19-end-2020 https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news... Anew study published in the journal Nature estimates that 103 million Americans, or 31 percent of the U.S. population, had been infected with SARS-CoV-2 by the end of 2020 The number you mentioned is the number verified, but based on the modeling of infection rates and spread they've come up with the bigger number. It will keep getting bigger. In any case, "flashing a card" to go into a bar is the precipice of the slippery slope. And yes, it's slippery. It doesn't take much effort to see the writing on the wall and observe the tyranny emerging in other places. If you're not simply ignorant to history and being tricked by the narrative, at least be honest about what you actually want - which is to control others. Don't try to pass it off as being concerned about health though, I wasn't born yesterday.

jowday 5y ago
I missed your link in the parent - if there's plenty of evidence that getting the vaccine is actually more risky for a certain group than not getting it, sure, let's avoid giving them the vaccine. It should be obvious that when I say "willingly unvaccinated" I mean people who aren't at risk or have a condition that prevents them from getting vaccinated who refuse it. >If you're not simply ignorant to history and being tricked by the narrative, at least be honest about what you actually want - which is to control others. I want to keep myself and my loved ones safe - I've got 3 different family members who are both vulnerable to COVID and require in-home care. It's not feasible for them to self-isolate.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  Virtually nobody is at higher risk from vaccination than the disease.
  - throwawayfear 5y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r... https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-popul... That's 25 million people in the USA alone, and that's just based on the data we have right now. Virtually no one? And you ignore that the people with antibodies from natural immunity don't need it. See the links in the parent comments I posted.
ikr678 5y ago
Natural Immunity might confer more protection to the individual against covid, but it's a terrible public health policy position if your goal is protect as many people as possible while you have perfectly good vaccines available. For those 100m Americans to get that immunity, you had to have a lot of deaths and externalities pushed onto your hospital systems along the way. Healthcare staffing costs are shooting up, health insurance costs will likely rise across the board. Pressure from the delta waves are going to leave a lot of residual costs in the system, and it largely preventable. Vax passports/documentatio is a whole separate issue, but I'll never understand why Americans are so adamantly against preventative healthcare measures.

jrs235 5y ago

40 million REPORTED COVID infections... Two family members had positive tests REPORTED (they got tested). Three others got symptoms (it WAS COVID) while quarantining but never got tested (therefore never got REPORTED). Only 40% (of those in this household) got REPORTED.

nradov 5y ago

Your number is way off. The CDC estimates that 120M Americans have been infected as of July (more by now). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...