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Because it is pretty simple to account for who got the vaccine and who did not. And running entire population through antibody test just to find, in most cases

Because it is pretty simple to account for who got the vaccine and who did not. And running entire population through antibody test just to find, in most cases, that you still need to administer the vaccine is just wasteful.

ffggvv 5y ago
i don’t see how it’d be wasteful to know how many people have natural immunity. seems quite useful actually even if we determine they should still get vaccine
- lmilcin 5y ago
  You can get to know how many people have natural immunity without testing them all. In a country as large as US it would be enough to test probably one in 10 thousand people to get accurate statistics.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The UK public health officials have been doing random population sampling with antibody tests throughout the pandemic. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/1september2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... Unfortunately that never really happened in the US. There were a few small seroprevalence studies in limited areas at specific times but nothing consistent on a nationwide basis. Also note that there is more to immunity than antibodies, so assaying antibody levels alone will underestimate the level of immunity in the population. We should also be testing memory cell activity now that a test is approved. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-adaptive-biotechnologies-t-detect-covid-test https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavi...
- jpxw 5y ago
  I think you severely underestimate how hard it would be to organise every single person in the country having a blood test, and then sending out invites etc based on the results of those tests.
shmatt 5y ago
and more so, its extremely hard to track peoples blood test. Adobe Acrobat can easily change anyones name on a piece of paper with a blood test result, there wouldn't be a way to confirm this person has antibodies In Israel a high antibody blood test gives you a "vaccine passport" for 6 months. ...to get that, you sign up for the blood test using your government ID # (SSN for the US), the government gets your results before you do, and the government issues you an encrypted barcode that can only be decrypted by a government built mobile app that restaurants or stadiums have. They scan it and compare to your own ID Now, does anyone think the US can pull off getting peoples SSN , connect it to a blood test, send the SSN+result to the federal government and have them issue you a federal "antibody ID" which is directly connected to your SSN in a government database? We could only wish Americans are just really bad at these kinds of things. This is why we can't have nice things etc. etc. etc.
- jstanley 5y ago
  Why is any of that easier with vaccination status than with antibody status?
  - danans 5y ago
    It's not the book-keeping that's the issue, it's the physical determination of status. For antibody status, you have to do an antibody test, which is strictly more complex/expensive than a COVID vaccine (it took 3 days when I got it done), so it's not viable at population scale. It's similar to the reason that monoclonal antibody therapy is not a scalable treatment for COVID infection - better to minimize the chance of needing such treatment by just getting vaccinated.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ars 5y ago
  > Adobe Acrobat can easily change anyones name on a piece of paper with a blood test result It's even easier to fake vaccination status. Blank COVID cards are widely available. Most of them are handwritten - and even when vaccinated, they give them to you blank, you fill in your own name at home. > Now, does anyone think the US can pull off getting peoples SSN , connect it to a blood test, send the SSN+result to the federal government and have them issue you a federal "antibody ID" which is directly connected to your SSN in a government database? > We could only wish No we don't. Americans are VERY against that kind of thing. Plus Social Security numbers are not supposed to be used as a national ID - that's not what they are for. Not to mention how would you even do that? A Social Security card is not ID - you can say whatever number you want when getting vaccinated, no one would know. > Americans are just really bad at these kinds of things. This is why we can't have nice things etc. etc. etc. No, Americans are not bad at that - rather they don't want that. Don't confuse the two.
Waterluvian 5y ago
Just zero the entire block of memory instead of checking the state of each bit. If only these blocks cooperated!
nanis 5y ago
> running entire population through antibody test just to find A red herring if I have ever seen one. Assuming for a moment the premise that one must be forced to establish their immunity to a particular disease before being allowed to leave their homes, all that would be required would be to allow individuals who believe they've had COVID-19 and do not wish to get the vaccine to be able use their test results as proof instead of having to show a vaccine card. Note, this does NOT require some authority forcing the entire population take specific tests. But, the point of these vax passes is for all the authoritarian OCD afflicted Munchausen-by-proxy patients to demonstrate that they can force their preferences on everyone else just like it was the case with masks, distancing, no school, lockdown, etc.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > Note, this does NOT require some authority forcing the entire population take specific tests. The red herring is replying to someone saying that a lot of tests would have to be done with a denial that people would be forced to take tests. Also, this would require that some authority would need to have those people take specific tests, monitored and tracked in a specific way. Allowing people to claim to have had it based on their own documentation and choice of tests is like allowing job applicants to supply their own drug test results: not completely dependable. I'd be all for those people getting a vax pass. I wish all of the willfully unvaccinated would get covid tomorrow, and the rest of us could stay home for a week.
  - nanis 5y ago
    > I wish all of the willfully unvaccinated would get covid tomorrow Nice. > and the rest of us could stay home for a week. Feel free to isolate yourself as long as you wish, but it sounds like you are feeling a little envious that other people were able to have fuller lives during this period. You might want to read https://amzn.to/3hxFCFa https://amzn.to/3hxFCFa Also, note the comment I am replying to said: >> > running entire population through antibody test just to find So, I don't know what game you are playing.
president 5y ago
I can guarantee there was more waste in the form of billions of money lost and human productivity and lives lost from locking down the world than if we just told scared people to stay at home at the beginning of the pandemic.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  If you remember, nobody wanted to be first (except China) to tell their population to stay at home. And then they did not wait until we got rid of the virus but were quick to tell people to get out and enjoy as soon as the infection rates fell a little bit. If you look at this algorithm, it works like a thermostat. A dumb regulator designed TO REGULATE TEMPERATURE AT A CONSTANT LEVEL. Yes, that's what the policy ensured -- that we are keeping infection rates. Not that this is important now. We are living with consequences of these decisions and the best we could do would be to vaccinate as many people as possible as fast as possible to prevent as many unnecessary tragedies.
  - president 5y ago
    Well, that is my point. I don't think there should have ever been regulations on what you could and couldn't do. Like I mentioned, scared people can stay home and others can go out and take precautions and manage their own risk. Saying the pandemic can only end when everyone gets their shots is basically denying science especially given articles like the one posted by OP. Remember, they could end the pandemic right now if they wanted to. The pandemic designation is a human-made one.
proc0 5y ago
> Because it is pretty simple to account for who got the vaccine and who did not. So it's about tracking people so the government can more easily keep the public safe. Let's give them all the power in the world to keep us safer! We should be demanding OPTIONS. Even from a pragmatic standpoint, this would convince more people. When they mandate only one thing, it's as if they are pushing towards a dictatorship just for our own safety. How convenient. I'm sorry, but people are a bit too eager to go there just because of fear. We were in this situation with the Patriot Act and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Governments have a track record of doing this!
- mike00632 5y ago
  It's not "fear" of what could happen. It's the recognition of what is happening and what did happen. What you're engaging in is called "denial".
tim333 5y ago
I'm not sure any countries are actually using antibody tests for vaccine passport type purposes. They usually want a past positive PCR test.

ffggvv 5y ago

i don’t see how it’d be wasteful to know how many people have natural immunity. seems quite useful actually even if we determine they should still get vaccine

lmilcin 5y ago
You can get to know how many people have natural immunity without testing them all. In a country as large as US it would be enough to test probably one in 10 thousand people to get accurate statistics.
- nradov 5y ago
  The UK public health officials have been doing random population sampling with antibody tests throughout the pandemic. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/1september2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... Unfortunately that never really happened in the US. There were a few small seroprevalence studies in limited areas at specific times but nothing consistent on a nationwide basis. Also note that there is more to immunity than antibodies, so assaying antibody levels alone will underestimate the level of immunity in the population. We should also be testing memory cell activity now that a test is approved. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-adaptive-biotechnologies-t-detect-covid-test https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavi...
jpxw 5y ago
I think you severely underestimate how hard it would be to organise every single person in the country having a blood test, and then sending out invites etc based on the results of those tests.

shmatt 5y ago

and more so, its extremely hard to track peoples blood test. Adobe Acrobat can easily change anyones name on a piece of paper with a blood test result, there wouldn't be a way to confirm this person has antibodies In Israel a high antibody blood test gives you a "vaccine passport" for 6 months. ...to get that, you sign up for the blood test using your government ID # (SSN for the US), the government gets your results before you do, and the government issues you an encrypted barcode that can only be decrypted by a government built mobile app that restaurants or stadiums have. They scan it and compare to your own ID Now, does anyone think the US can pull off getting peoples SSN , connect it to a blood test, send the SSN+result to the federal government and have them issue you a federal "antibody ID" which is directly connected to your SSN in a government database? We could only wish Americans are just really bad at these kinds of things. This is why we can't have nice things etc. etc. etc.

jstanley 5y ago
Why is any of that easier with vaccination status than with antibody status?
- danans 5y ago
  It's not the book-keeping that's the issue, it's the physical determination of status. For antibody status, you have to do an antibody test, which is strictly more complex/expensive than a COVID vaccine (it took 3 days when I got it done), so it's not viable at population scale. It's similar to the reason that monoclonal antibody therapy is not a scalable treatment for COVID infection - better to minimize the chance of needing such treatment by just getting vaccinated.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ars 5y ago
> Adobe Acrobat can easily change anyones name on a piece of paper with a blood test result It's even easier to fake vaccination status. Blank COVID cards are widely available. Most of them are handwritten - and even when vaccinated, they give them to you blank, you fill in your own name at home. > Now, does anyone think the US can pull off getting peoples SSN , connect it to a blood test, send the SSN+result to the federal government and have them issue you a federal "antibody ID" which is directly connected to your SSN in a government database? > We could only wish No we don't. Americans are VERY against that kind of thing. Plus Social Security numbers are not supposed to be used as a national ID - that's not what they are for. Not to mention how would you even do that? A Social Security card is not ID - you can say whatever number you want when getting vaccinated, no one would know. > Americans are just really bad at these kinds of things. This is why we can't have nice things etc. etc. etc. No, Americans are not bad at that - rather they don't want that. Don't confuse the two.

Waterluvian 5y ago

Just zero the entire block of memory instead of checking the state of each bit. If only these blocks cooperated!

nanis 5y ago

> running entire population through antibody test just to find A red herring if I have ever seen one. Assuming for a moment the premise that one must be forced to establish their immunity to a particular disease before being allowed to leave their homes, all that would be required would be to allow individuals who believe they've had COVID-19 and do not wish to get the vaccine to be able use their test results as proof instead of having to show a vaccine card. Note, this does NOT require some authority forcing the entire population take specific tests. But, the point of these vax passes is for all the authoritarian OCD afflicted Munchausen-by-proxy patients to demonstrate that they can force their preferences on everyone else just like it was the case with masks, distancing, no school, lockdown, etc.

pessimizer 5y ago
> Note, this does NOT require some authority forcing the entire population take specific tests. The red herring is replying to someone saying that a lot of tests would have to be done with a denial that people would be forced to take tests. Also, this would require that some authority would need to have those people take specific tests, monitored and tracked in a specific way. Allowing people to claim to have had it based on their own documentation and choice of tests is like allowing job applicants to supply their own drug test results: not completely dependable. I'd be all for those people getting a vax pass. I wish all of the willfully unvaccinated would get covid tomorrow, and the rest of us could stay home for a week.
- nanis 5y ago
  > I wish all of the willfully unvaccinated would get covid tomorrow Nice. > and the rest of us could stay home for a week. Feel free to isolate yourself as long as you wish, but it sounds like you are feeling a little envious that other people were able to have fuller lives during this period. You might want to read https://amzn.to/3hxFCFa https://amzn.to/3hxFCFa Also, note the comment I am replying to said: >> > running entire population through antibody test just to find So, I don't know what game you are playing.

president 5y ago

I can guarantee there was more waste in the form of billions of money lost and human productivity and lives lost from locking down the world than if we just told scared people to stay at home at the beginning of the pandemic.

lmilcin 5y ago
If you remember, nobody wanted to be first (except China) to tell their population to stay at home. And then they did not wait until we got rid of the virus but were quick to tell people to get out and enjoy as soon as the infection rates fell a little bit. If you look at this algorithm, it works like a thermostat. A dumb regulator designed TO REGULATE TEMPERATURE AT A CONSTANT LEVEL. Yes, that's what the policy ensured -- that we are keeping infection rates. Not that this is important now. We are living with consequences of these decisions and the best we could do would be to vaccinate as many people as possible as fast as possible to prevent as many unnecessary tragedies.
- president 5y ago
  Well, that is my point. I don't think there should have ever been regulations on what you could and couldn't do. Like I mentioned, scared people can stay home and others can go out and take precautions and manage their own risk. Saying the pandemic can only end when everyone gets their shots is basically denying science especially given articles like the one posted by OP. Remember, they could end the pandemic right now if they wanted to. The pandemic designation is a human-made one.

proc0 5y ago

> Because it is pretty simple to account for who got the vaccine and who did not. So it's about tracking people so the government can more easily keep the public safe. Let's give them all the power in the world to keep us safer! We should be demanding OPTIONS. Even from a pragmatic standpoint, this would convince more people. When they mandate only one thing, it's as if they are pushing towards a dictatorship just for our own safety. How convenient. I'm sorry, but people are a bit too eager to go there just because of fear. We were in this situation with the Patriot Act and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Governments have a track record of doing this!

mike00632 5y ago
It's not "fear" of what could happen. It's the recognition of what is happening and what did happen. What you're engaging in is called "denial".

tim333 5y ago

I'm not sure any countries are actually using antibody tests for vaccine passport type purposes. They usually want a past positive PCR test.