5 ms·

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people think they had covid previously but didn't get tested so they don't really know. I thought I had covid early

by jjeaff 5y ago

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people think they had covid previously but didn't get tested so they don't really know. I thought I had covid early in the pandemic. Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. I suspect a lot of people that think they had it are the same.

sschueller 5y ago
Interesting. Does the US now have a digital verifiable certificate system for tested or previously infected as well as vaccinated or is it still a piece of paper? Without this you have to just vaccinate everyone because there is no other way to manage it.
isolli 5y ago
Except that antibodies don’t tell the whole story. They may wane after a while, but the immune system is primed to fight off the virus at the next infection thanks to memory B cells and T cells. Unfortunately, T-cell tests are not available in Europe, and apparently not reliable in the US. Which confirms the original point: there seems to be little interest in detecting previous infections.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Which means that testing is really undependable. Probably better to vaccinate everyone, because our prediction of the immunity of people who have been vaccinated is a lot more reliable.
- walterbell 5y ago
  > apparently not reliable in the US Which T-cell test(s) are you referencing? What are the rates of false negatives or false positives?
  - isolli 5y ago
    Good question. I wrote "apparently" because I don't know much about T-cell tests. I would be happy for any information on the topic.
- scythe 5y ago
  From an economic perspective, if the cost of the vaccine is less than the cost of the test, you just use the vaccine. "Natural immunity" makes sense as an objection if the individual had a recorded earlier infection, but administering 300M pre-infection tests and 200M vaccines is likely to be less efficient than just administering 300M vaccines. The more sophisticated of a test you demand, the stronger this argument becomes.
  - km3r 5y ago
    I think Canada accepts positive covid tests as proof of prior infection, and many people already have those tests done and just sitting in their email.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      Not true to my knowledge. Sorry. - A Canadian.
    - scythe 5y ago
      I mean, that's fine, but it's not what the parent was asking for. It seemed that they were implying we needed to catch every pre-infection, and the lack of development of highly sensitive tests for pre-infection was evidence of some negligence. I was arguing against developing "T-cell tests" for prior COVID infection. My comment was not intended to be an argument against any testing for pre-infection; I think the rationale for that is pretty solid, but I think that the regulatory establishment needs to be prepared to inform people that they might not be able to prove their previous infection and in that case they should get vaccinated.
    - jeromegv 5y ago
      Canada doesn't have a national health care system, this is managed by each provinces. Quebec is the only province that will let you get only 1 dose of the vaccine, instead of 2, if you were previously infected. With that 1 dose, that's enough to have access to the vaccine passport. But there are absolutely no places in Canada that accepts prior infection as being fully vaccinated.
  - 5y ago
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 Many people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 will probably make antibodies against the virus for most of their lives. So suggest researchers who have identified long-lived antibody-producing cells in the bone marrow of people who have recovered from COVID-191. The study provides evidence that immunity triggered by SARS-CoV-2 infection will be extraordinarily long-lasting. Adding to the good news, “the implications are that vaccines will have the same durable effect”, says Menno van Zelm, an immunologist at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label.
anonAndOn 5y ago
>Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. How soon after you were ill? Aren't the antibodies nigh undetectable XX weeks after you recover?
- alecst 5y ago
  IgG antibodies linger for a while, like months or longer. It’s a quick way of telling whether your vaccine worked, by just getting an antibody test.
AuryGlenz 5y ago
I had a friend think he had it 3 times (and the third time was probably legitimate). The symptoms the first two times? Typical cold symptoms. No fever. No major cough. No real loss of taste. I had another friend do the same thing. This was back before tests were widely available. I have genuinely had it twice myself, but people largely have though for the past two years that if they were sick it was COVID.
TrevorJ 5y ago
Any serious policy which brings natural immunity into the fold would include the need for an actual medical diagnosis. I don't see the issue to raise to be a valid one because there are easy solutions.
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  Serum tests are currently being used in the UK and other places. They can be taken up to 180 days after one has been infected.
cdolan 5y ago
What if you do have a positive test in your history?
rpmisms 5y ago
This is a reasonable concern. My wife had it and got the test to prove it, I also had it and did not get tested, but considering that she was asymptomatic, and we continued all normal activities, as well as quarantining together, it would be silly to question if I had it.
ergocoder 5y ago
Then, say that instead of lying that natural immunity doesn't work.

by jjeaff 5y ago

sschueller 5y ago

Interesting. Does the US now have a digital verifiable certificate system for tested or previously infected as well as vaccinated or is it still a piece of paper? Without this you have to just vaccinate everyone because there is no other way to manage it.

isolli 5y ago

Except that antibodies don’t tell the whole story. They may wane after a while, but the immune system is primed to fight off the virus at the next infection thanks to memory B cells and T cells. Unfortunately, T-cell tests are not available in Europe, and apparently not reliable in the US. Which confirms the original point: there seems to be little interest in detecting previous infections.

pessimizer 5y ago
Which means that testing is really undependable. Probably better to vaccinate everyone, because our prediction of the immunity of people who have been vaccinated is a lot more reliable.
walterbell 5y ago
> apparently not reliable in the US Which T-cell test(s) are you referencing? What are the rates of false negatives or false positives?
- isolli 5y ago
  Good question. I wrote "apparently" because I don't know much about T-cell tests. I would be happy for any information on the topic.
scythe 5y ago
From an economic perspective, if the cost of the vaccine is less than the cost of the test, you just use the vaccine. "Natural immunity" makes sense as an objection if the individual had a recorded earlier infection, but administering 300M pre-infection tests and 200M vaccines is likely to be less efficient than just administering 300M vaccines. The more sophisticated of a test you demand, the stronger this argument becomes.
- km3r 5y ago
  I think Canada accepts positive covid tests as proof of prior infection, and many people already have those tests done and just sitting in their email.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    Not true to my knowledge. Sorry. - A Canadian.
  - scythe 5y ago
    I mean, that's fine, but it's not what the parent was asking for. It seemed that they were implying we needed to catch every pre-infection, and the lack of development of highly sensitive tests for pre-infection was evidence of some negligence. I was arguing against developing "T-cell tests" for prior COVID infection. My comment was not intended to be an argument against any testing for pre-infection; I think the rationale for that is pretty solid, but I think that the regulatory establishment needs to be prepared to inform people that they might not be able to prove their previous infection and in that case they should get vaccinated.
  - jeromegv 5y ago
    Canada doesn't have a national health care system, this is managed by each provinces. Quebec is the only province that will let you get only 1 dose of the vaccine, instead of 2, if you were previously infected. With that 1 dose, that's enough to have access to the vaccine passport. But there are absolutely no places in Canada that accepts prior infection as being fully vaccinated.
- 5y ago
throwawayfear 5y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 Many people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 will probably make antibodies against the virus for most of their lives. So suggest researchers who have identified long-lived antibody-producing cells in the bone marrow of people who have recovered from COVID-191. The study provides evidence that immunity triggered by SARS-CoV-2 infection will be extraordinarily long-lasting. Adding to the good news, “the implications are that vaccines will have the same durable effect”, says Menno van Zelm, an immunologist at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label.

anonAndOn 5y ago

>Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. How soon after you were ill? Aren't the antibodies nigh undetectable XX weeks after you recover?

alecst 5y ago
IgG antibodies linger for a while, like months or longer. It’s a quick way of telling whether your vaccine worked, by just getting an antibody test.

AuryGlenz 5y ago

I had a friend think he had it 3 times (and the third time was probably legitimate). The symptoms the first two times? Typical cold symptoms. No fever. No major cough. No real loss of taste. I had another friend do the same thing. This was back before tests were widely available. I have genuinely had it twice myself, but people largely have though for the past two years that if they were sick it was COVID.

TrevorJ 5y ago

Any serious policy which brings natural immunity into the fold would include the need for an actual medical diagnosis. I don't see the issue to raise to be a valid one because there are easy solutions.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
Serum tests are currently being used in the UK and other places. They can be taken up to 180 days after one has been infected.

cdolan 5y ago

What if you do have a positive test in your history?

rpmisms 5y ago

This is a reasonable concern. My wife had it and got the test to prove it, I also had it and did not get tested, but considering that she was asymptomatic, and we continued all normal activities, as well as quarantining together, it would be silly to question if I had it.

ergocoder 5y ago

Then, say that instead of lying that natural immunity doesn't work.