3 ms·

> I have a personal grudge against anyone saying (...) There is no need to have any grudge against me (I hope). I get it. I never said being a parent is an eas

> I have a personal grudge against anyone saying (...) There is no need to have any grudge against me (I hope). I get it. I never said being a parent is an easy job. I acknowledge how hard it is but... > Facebook and Instagram are drug dealers If you teach your kids not to consume drugs, why Instagram should be any different?

wussboy 5y ago
Sorry, I agree my grudge comment came off hard. No offence I hope?
- aspaviento 5y ago
  No offence, I understood from where you came.
afavour 5y ago
> If you teach your kids not to consume drugs, why Instagram should be any different? Imagine if all the other kids at school used drugs on a daily basis, that there was advertising plastered everywhere telling you that drugs are cool, that successful people use drugs and that your worth in this world can be directly tied to successful use of drugs. I don't mean to sound mean here, but are you a parent? If not I suspect you're not really aware of the realities of parenting, particularly once a child becomes teenage. You can only do so much. And you certainly can't win against a multi-billion dollar enterprise determined to make your rebellion-inclined teenager do something.
- aspaviento 5y ago
  I don't want to use myself as an example because it's just my experience but when I was young people around me smoked, many of my teachers smoked and in TV and movies smoking was still accepted as something approved by society. But I was taught not to do it and never did it. With this I just want to say that I know it's a difficult task but presenting it as a lost battle/impossible seems to me wrong.
  - OvidNaso 5y ago
    Do you really think all those people aroubd you eere taught to smoke?
  - naravara 5y ago
    > With this I just want to say that I know it's a difficult task but presenting it as a lost battle/impossible seems to me wrong. The thing is, we made headway in the battle against smoking by disallowing people from doing all those things. You're not allowed to market to kids, you're not allowed to depict smoking in most TV that kids are likely to watch, you're not allowed to smoke in or near schools and teachers who do are frowned upon. Cigarettes themselves are taxed heavily specifically to price young people out of getting into the habit, vendors are required to card, and the cigarette makers are even required to pay into a fund that promotes anti-smoking messaging. So yes it is definitely not an impossible task. But the things that make it possible require taking it seriously as a danger and addressing it collectively.
  - triceratops 5y ago
    > when I was young people around me smoked > But I was taught not to do it and never did it. So not all young people in your time were taught similarly. Or if they were, those teachings didn't stick. Ideally the number of minors smoking would be zero. I don't think that's a radical idea, and I hope it's something that everyone can agree on. "Teachings from parents" obviously didn't achieve that goal, from your own experience.
  - bumby 5y ago
    I know you probably intuit this based on your pre-emptive caveat about anecdotal evidence, but a quick online search seems to indicate that your experience may not be the norm. "Peers’ smoking is the strongest predictor of adolescent smoking."[1] [1] Gecková, A.M., Stewart, R., van Dijk, J.P., Orosová, O.G., Groothoff, J.W. and Post, D., 2005. Influence of socio-economic status, parents and peers on smoking behaviour of adolescents. European addiction research, 11(4), pp.204-209.
- jimbokun 5y ago
  > Imagine if all the other kids at school used drugs on a daily basis In many high schools this isn't far off the truth.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  This is quite an interesting thought experiment. As noted by @aspaviento, they were able to resist smoking, regardless of surrounding influences. Do you have any comments on the tactics used by cigarette companies -- specifically in the United States -- before the 1998 "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement"? When I was a kid, the amount of advertising by tobacco was incredible. It was unavoidable and everywhere... and any cool or famous seemed associated with cigarette companies. Even if you ignore smoking cigarettes, the topic of smoking marijuana will surely be a major issue for current and next gen parents. How would you parent around this issue? It is so complex.
  - triceratops 5y ago
    > Do you have any comments on the tactics used by cigarette companies -- specifically in the United States -- before the 1998 "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement"? The tactics worked? Rates of smoking used to be way higher in the past.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    In 1997 highschool smoking rate peaked at 36.4%. Resisting smoking is quite difficult as a teenager, in spite of parents efforts. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/images/p0612-YRBS.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/images/p0612-YRBS.pd...
throwaway2037 5y ago
In some respects, "Say No to Drugs" seems out of date when some very advanced democracies have already legalised some drugs or are close to it. That said, I understand your sentiment. No parent should be encouraging their children to become habitual cocaine users! One thing that does some "obvious" for this generation of parents: Work hard to educate your children on the dangers of traditional cigarette smoking. That is a seriously terrible habit for your health and well-being. I feel much less so about vaping (e-cigarettes), as the health effects of nicotine addiction are still far lower than traditional cigarette smoke inhaled into the lungs.
- short_sells_poo 5y ago
  > In some respects, "Say No to Drugs" seems out of date when some very advanced democracies have already legalised some drugs or are close to it. I think there's a certain nuance there. Drugs (which ones?) can (should?) be legal - or at least their consumption decriminalized. We've made good progress already and yet much more is to be made. But all this is not saying that drugs should be pushed hand over fist down people's throat and that billions should be spent on studying the ways people can be more encouraged to become drug users. And this is what Facebook et al are doing. They are spending untold resources on devising the most efficient ways of making people addicted and ensuring that no other way exist of satisfying the cravings. They create echo chambers and push specifically topics that get the most response out of people. And this is completely legal (currently). Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok etc... are allowed to be cool, hip, desirable and consumed in ways that the tobacco industry couldn't imagine in their wildest dreams during their heydays. These companies can tap into the deepest secrets and desires of vast swathes of people in ways that is unprecedented. I feel that the vices of the old world, like drugs, are chickenshit compared to the power that the new vices can wield over their captives.
  - Yizahi 5y ago
    Nicotine and alcohol drugs are already legal everywhere :) . We are just hypocrites, classifying them separately.

wussboy 5y ago

Sorry, I agree my grudge comment came off hard. No offence I hope?

aspaviento 5y ago
No offence, I understood from where you came.

afavour 5y ago

> If you teach your kids not to consume drugs, why Instagram should be any different? Imagine if all the other kids at school used drugs on a daily basis, that there was advertising plastered everywhere telling you that drugs are cool, that successful people use drugs and that your worth in this world can be directly tied to successful use of drugs. I don't mean to sound mean here, but are you a parent? If not I suspect you're not really aware of the realities of parenting, particularly once a child becomes teenage. You can only do so much. And you certainly can't win against a multi-billion dollar enterprise determined to make your rebellion-inclined teenager do something.

aspaviento 5y ago
I don't want to use myself as an example because it's just my experience but when I was young people around me smoked, many of my teachers smoked and in TV and movies smoking was still accepted as something approved by society. But I was taught not to do it and never did it. With this I just want to say that I know it's a difficult task but presenting it as a lost battle/impossible seems to me wrong.
- OvidNaso 5y ago
  Do you really think all those people aroubd you eere taught to smoke?
- naravara 5y ago
  > With this I just want to say that I know it's a difficult task but presenting it as a lost battle/impossible seems to me wrong. The thing is, we made headway in the battle against smoking by disallowing people from doing all those things. You're not allowed to market to kids, you're not allowed to depict smoking in most TV that kids are likely to watch, you're not allowed to smoke in or near schools and teachers who do are frowned upon. Cigarettes themselves are taxed heavily specifically to price young people out of getting into the habit, vendors are required to card, and the cigarette makers are even required to pay into a fund that promotes anti-smoking messaging. So yes it is definitely not an impossible task. But the things that make it possible require taking it seriously as a danger and addressing it collectively.
- triceratops 5y ago
  > when I was young people around me smoked > But I was taught not to do it and never did it. So not all young people in your time were taught similarly. Or if they were, those teachings didn't stick. Ideally the number of minors smoking would be zero. I don't think that's a radical idea, and I hope it's something that everyone can agree on. "Teachings from parents" obviously didn't achieve that goal, from your own experience.
- bumby 5y ago
  I know you probably intuit this based on your pre-emptive caveat about anecdotal evidence, but a quick online search seems to indicate that your experience may not be the norm. "Peers’ smoking is the strongest predictor of adolescent smoking."[1] [1] Gecková, A.M., Stewart, R., van Dijk, J.P., Orosová, O.G., Groothoff, J.W. and Post, D., 2005. Influence of socio-economic status, parents and peers on smoking behaviour of adolescents. European addiction research, 11(4), pp.204-209.
jimbokun 5y ago
> Imagine if all the other kids at school used drugs on a daily basis In many high schools this isn't far off the truth.
throwaway2037 5y ago
This is quite an interesting thought experiment. As noted by @aspaviento, they were able to resist smoking, regardless of surrounding influences. Do you have any comments on the tactics used by cigarette companies -- specifically in the United States -- before the 1998 "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement"? When I was a kid, the amount of advertising by tobacco was incredible. It was unavoidable and everywhere... and any cool or famous seemed associated with cigarette companies. Even if you ignore smoking cigarettes, the topic of smoking marijuana will surely be a major issue for current and next gen parents. How would you parent around this issue? It is so complex.
- triceratops 5y ago
  > Do you have any comments on the tactics used by cigarette companies -- specifically in the United States -- before the 1998 "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement"? The tactics worked? Rates of smoking used to be way higher in the past.
- angelzen 5y ago
  In 1997 highschool smoking rate peaked at 36.4%. Resisting smoking is quite difficult as a teenager, in spite of parents efforts. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/images/p0612-YRBS.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/images/p0612-YRBS.pd...

throwaway2037 5y ago

In some respects, "Say No to Drugs" seems out of date when some very advanced democracies have already legalised some drugs or are close to it. That said, I understand your sentiment. No parent should be encouraging their children to become habitual cocaine users! One thing that does some "obvious" for this generation of parents: Work hard to educate your children on the dangers of traditional cigarette smoking. That is a seriously terrible habit for your health and well-being. I feel much less so about vaping (e-cigarettes), as the health effects of nicotine addiction are still far lower than traditional cigarette smoke inhaled into the lungs.

short_sells_poo 5y ago
> In some respects, "Say No to Drugs" seems out of date when some very advanced democracies have already legalised some drugs or are close to it. I think there's a certain nuance there. Drugs (which ones?) can (should?) be legal - or at least their consumption decriminalized. We've made good progress already and yet much more is to be made. But all this is not saying that drugs should be pushed hand over fist down people's throat and that billions should be spent on studying the ways people can be more encouraged to become drug users. And this is what Facebook et al are doing. They are spending untold resources on devising the most efficient ways of making people addicted and ensuring that no other way exist of satisfying the cravings. They create echo chambers and push specifically topics that get the most response out of people. And this is completely legal (currently). Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok etc... are allowed to be cool, hip, desirable and consumed in ways that the tobacco industry couldn't imagine in their wildest dreams during their heydays. These companies can tap into the deepest secrets and desires of vast swathes of people in ways that is unprecedented. I feel that the vices of the old world, like drugs, are chickenshit compared to the power that the new vices can wield over their captives.
- Yizahi 5y ago
  Nicotine and alcohol drugs are already legal everywhere :) . We are just hypocrites, classifying them separately.