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if there are all of these biological correlations with race, what does it mean that “race is a social construct”? I could divide people into 'tall', 'medium' a

if there are all of these biological correlations with race, what does it mean that “race is a social construct”? I could divide people into 'tall', 'medium' and 'short' buckets. Someone else could categorize them all into just two categories (eg: 'tall' and 'short') instead, and someone else might argue that I've chosen bad cutoffs, and tell me I incorrectly put a bunch of 'medium' people in the 'short' bucket. People have differences, but the criteria by which we choose to group them is subjective.

IshKebab 5y ago
That is only true if the distribution of things within the continuum is not "lumpy". For height it isn't, but for other things it is. For example gender is highly bimodal, yet still a continuum. Would you say that "male" and "female" are subjective socially constructed categories? Of course not. Race is probably somewhere in-between. There are people all over the spectrum but there are pretty clear large groups with sparsely populated gaps in-between them.
- uniqueid 5y ago
  Your comment merits a more thoughtful reply than this, but I discussed the same issue here some months ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26876186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26876186) and it's hard to work up enthusiasm now.
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  I would argue that "male" and "female" can be subjective socially constructed categories in certain contexts. For example, intersex people exist, people with hormone conditions exist. Whether these people are male or female is a very hairy and nuanced conversation that is viewed on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes creates controversies, such as women who have XY chromosomes and naturally elevated testosterone being disqualified from competing as women in elite sports. See: Caster Semenya, who is disqualified from competing as a woman because she has XY chromosomes and naturally elevated testosterone. She's intersex. Her only supposed recourse is to take medication to force her testosterone levels lower to be qualified as a woman. Of course, the organization is now defining who counts as a woman to qualify for women's sports is likely making socially constructed categories.
  - IshKebab 5y ago
    Right, but the existence of edge cases does not mean that the "male" and "female" labels are completely arbitrary. The words "bed" and "sofa" aren't arbitrary social constructs just because sofabeds exist.

IshKebab 5y ago

That is only true if the distribution of things within the continuum is not "lumpy". For height it isn't, but for other things it is. For example gender is highly bimodal, yet still a continuum. Would you say that "male" and "female" are subjective socially constructed categories? Of course not. Race is probably somewhere in-between. There are people all over the spectrum but there are pretty clear large groups with sparsely populated gaps in-between them.

uniqueid 5y ago
Your comment merits a more thoughtful reply than this, but I discussed the same issue here some months ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26876186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26876186) and it's hard to work up enthusiasm now.
KittenInABox 5y ago
I would argue that "male" and "female" can be subjective socially constructed categories in certain contexts. For example, intersex people exist, people with hormone conditions exist. Whether these people are male or female is a very hairy and nuanced conversation that is viewed on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes creates controversies, such as women who have XY chromosomes and naturally elevated testosterone being disqualified from competing as women in elite sports. See: Caster Semenya, who is disqualified from competing as a woman because she has XY chromosomes and naturally elevated testosterone. She's intersex. Her only supposed recourse is to take medication to force her testosterone levels lower to be qualified as a woman. Of course, the organization is now defining who counts as a woman to qualify for women's sports is likely making socially constructed categories.
- IshKebab 5y ago
  Right, but the existence of edge cases does not mean that the "male" and "female" labels are completely arbitrary. The words "bed" and "sofa" aren't arbitrary social constructs just because sofabeds exist.