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If Tesla can activate their own showrooms in more reservations across the U.S. and drive a stake through the heart of third-party dealerships, that's a positive

If Tesla can activate their own showrooms in more reservations across the U.S. and drive a stake through the heart of third-party dealerships, that's a positive development. I hope that Tesla (and other auto manufacturers) can go one step further and provide lasting, meaningful employment and other opportunities to local residents in the reservations. Casinos often fail or extract exploitative concessions and demands on local tribes.

URSpider94 5y ago
They don’t have to do this in most states. Only a few states have laws against selling cars factory-direct.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cant-buy-tesla-states-161318245.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cant-buy-tesla-states-1613182... As of Oct 2018. >Where Tesla is banned >Here are those states: Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Texas. >Then there are nine states that limit the number of dealerships Tesla can open: Colorado (limit: one), North Carolina (one), Virginia (two), Georgia (five), Maryland (four), New Jersey (four), New York (five), Ohio (three), Pennsylvania (five).
  - delecti 5y ago
    If my count is correct, that's a full half of states in total. And the states in the second group are all large enough that it's a meaningful limit to be only allowed a handful. For comparison, there are 7 Toyota dealerships just between the Denver and Boulder Colorado areas (using their "find a dealer" tool makes it hard to be more thorough than that).
  - jillesvangurp 5y ago
    I'm guessing the Texas situation might change given how much Tesla and SpaceX are investing in Texas right now.
    - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
      Then again, Texas wants to use women as baby farms, so maybe Tesla should pull out. And yeah: I mean that literally and as a pun. "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." YOU'RE DISRESPECTFUL ASSHOLES, HACKER NEWS. PLEASE FUCK YOURSELVES. THANKS.
  - KingMachiavelli 5y ago
    In Colorado there is no limit as of 2020 for Tesla. Any EV-only manufacture is allowed to direct sell in CO.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    North and South Dakota have big reservations.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Yes but thanks to Andrew Jackson most reservations are in the flyover states in the middle of nowhere far away from the big metro areas. So I'm not sure if it will matter much. I hazard a guess that Tesla's are sold on the East and West coast.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinnecock_Reservation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinnecock_Reservation I think there are multiple reservations in San Diego County. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Indian_Reservation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Indian_Reservation, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincon_Band_of_Luise%C3%B1o_Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincon_Band_of_Luise%C3%B1o_In... There are also reservations in Riverside Country - isn't that close to LA? e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agua_Caliente_Band_of_Cahuilla_Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agua_Caliente_Band_of_Cahuilla...
  - pengaru 5y ago
    There's a small res casino practically inside Joshua Tree National Park at 29 Palms.
    - JaggedJax 5y ago
      With a Tesla Supercharger at it!
- stumpedonalog 5y ago
  Hmm… the Salt River reservation is nearly downtown Phoenix. It covers like a fourth of the metro area.
- ethagknight 5y ago
  This is wrong, reservations or tribals lands are sometimes within the greater MSA of some cities or otherwise adjacent to populous areas, (Tulsa is the most prominent example, Kansas City, south Florida Miami area, Mobile AL, Charlotte NC to list a few). In the context of the dealership laws, these are significant exceptions. Of the 10 states with outright bans on manufacturer sales, all but Texas and West Virginia have tribal lands that theoretically could be used as a helpful loophole to this protectionism. Maybe not always Tesla’s the first choice of location, but a 50 mi drive beats a 300 mile drive, and sufficient to break the teeth of these laws. Please dont be dismissive of “flyover states.” The lack of dealerships and service centers certainly impairs the sales process, and then California’s extremely generous (and unnecessary?) EV incentive gives many people from other states an incentive jump through some hoops and papering to purchase and title their vehicle there.
protomyth 5y ago
The one problem is many reservations are nowhere near cities. The federal government tended to want to put Native Americans on land away from the settlers. The other problem is how the tribe implemented its TERO (Tribal Employment Rights Ordinance or Office) rules. They can often be particularly odious to business ventures on the reservation.
- beambot 5y ago
  Can tribes create embassies? This sounds like a great boon to tribal economies: Buy land, turn into embassy (sovereign land), lease building to Tesla for dealership, profit.
  - protomyth 5y ago
    The Navajo Nation has one in DC, but its not really a true embassy with all the diplomatic privileges and it isn't considered part of the tribal land. As to adding land, its complicated https://www.bia.gov/bia/ots https://www.bia.gov/bia/ots https://www.fns.usda.gov/fdpir/distinction-between-reservations-and-land-held-trust https://www.fns.usda.gov/fdpir/distinction-between-reservati...
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Can tribes create embassies? No. Just as US states can't (tribal “sovereignty” is even farther from that of independent states than that of US states is.) > Buy land, turn into embassy Even for entities that can create embassies, that's not how they are created. You can't just acquire fee simple title and then at-will promote it to embassy status.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> drive a stake through the heart of third-party dealerships, that's a positive development. For Tesla to kill third-party dealers, they'd have to do everything third-party dealers do, and then they'd be indistinguishable from third-party dealers. It's fashionable to think Tesla has the Better Way and that auto dealers are universally bad, but consumers largely don't agree.
- yupper32 5y ago
  > It's fashionable to think Tesla has the Better Way and that auto dealers are universally bad, but consumers largely don't agree. There wouldn't need to be laws restricting Tesla from selling direct to consumer if that was the case. Let the consumer decide what they want.
  - Splendor 5y ago
    > There wouldn't need to be laws restricting Tesla from selling direct to consumer if that was the case. That's just not true. Consumers wouldn't have a choice if an automaker was allowed to make their new vehicles only available from a direct showroom.
    - yupper32 5y ago
      Sorry what value does a third party showroom provide that a direct showroom wouldn't? And currently car companies compete with each other. If one saw third party showrooms as something the consumer wants, then they would continue doing it to compete.
      - Splendor 5y ago
        You seem to have missed the part of my comment where I said "if an automaker was allowed to make their new vehicles only available from a direct showroom". If the automaker didn't allow other dealers to sell new vehicles, they wouldn't be able to compete. It's very simple.
encryptluks2 5y ago
Yes, positive. Now all businesses can start using reservations to circumvent laws and regulations, and before you know it that reservation land just becomes the latest trend in ways for America to further destroy Native American traditions and prosperity. Not even to mention that most tribes now operate essentially corrupt pyramid organizations where the money often doesn't flow down and many tribe members never see any of the profits or benefits.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  That’s denying the fact that Native American nations have agency and they welcomed this development. L
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Who do you think is making these decisions at various tribes? There is corruption throughout in all systems.
    - Robotbeat 5y ago
      They elect their leadership. You really saying that their decisions are illegitimate? That they cannot govern themselves?
dreamcompiler 5y ago
I suspect part of Tesla's plan is to build solar power facilities on the reservations, which would be great for the tribes if they can sell the power to the grid. (The tribes in NM and AZ have a tremendous solar resource.) Transmission lines would be the potential holdup with that plan though.

URSpider94 5y ago

They don’t have to do this in most states. Only a few states have laws against selling cars factory-direct.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cant-buy-tesla-states-161318245.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cant-buy-tesla-states-1613182... As of Oct 2018. >Where Tesla is banned >Here are those states: Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Texas. >Then there are nine states that limit the number of dealerships Tesla can open: Colorado (limit: one), North Carolina (one), Virginia (two), Georgia (five), Maryland (four), New Jersey (four), New York (five), Ohio (three), Pennsylvania (five).
- delecti 5y ago
  If my count is correct, that's a full half of states in total. And the states in the second group are all large enough that it's a meaningful limit to be only allowed a handful. For comparison, there are 7 Toyota dealerships just between the Denver and Boulder Colorado areas (using their "find a dealer" tool makes it hard to be more thorough than that).
- jillesvangurp 5y ago
  I'm guessing the Texas situation might change given how much Tesla and SpaceX are investing in Texas right now.
  - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
    Then again, Texas wants to use women as baby farms, so maybe Tesla should pull out. And yeah: I mean that literally and as a pun. "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." YOU'RE DISRESPECTFUL ASSHOLES, HACKER NEWS. PLEASE FUCK YOURSELVES. THANKS.
- KingMachiavelli 5y ago
  In Colorado there is no limit as of 2020 for Tesla. Any EV-only manufacture is allowed to direct sell in CO.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  North and South Dakota have big reservations.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Yes but thanks to Andrew Jackson most reservations are in the flyover states in the middle of nowhere far away from the big metro areas. So I'm not sure if it will matter much. I hazard a guess that Tesla's are sold on the East and West coast.

perl4ever 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinnecock_Reservation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinnecock_Reservation I think there are multiple reservations in San Diego County. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Indian_Reservation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Indian_Reservation, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincon_Band_of_Luise%C3%B1o_Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincon_Band_of_Luise%C3%B1o_In... There are also reservations in Riverside Country - isn't that close to LA? e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agua_Caliente_Band_of_Cahuilla_Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agua_Caliente_Band_of_Cahuilla...
- pengaru 5y ago
  There's a small res casino practically inside Joshua Tree National Park at 29 Palms.
  - JaggedJax 5y ago
    With a Tesla Supercharger at it!
stumpedonalog 5y ago
Hmm… the Salt River reservation is nearly downtown Phoenix. It covers like a fourth of the metro area.
ethagknight 5y ago
This is wrong, reservations or tribals lands are sometimes within the greater MSA of some cities or otherwise adjacent to populous areas, (Tulsa is the most prominent example, Kansas City, south Florida Miami area, Mobile AL, Charlotte NC to list a few). In the context of the dealership laws, these are significant exceptions. Of the 10 states with outright bans on manufacturer sales, all but Texas and West Virginia have tribal lands that theoretically could be used as a helpful loophole to this protectionism. Maybe not always Tesla’s the first choice of location, but a 50 mi drive beats a 300 mile drive, and sufficient to break the teeth of these laws. Please dont be dismissive of “flyover states.” The lack of dealerships and service centers certainly impairs the sales process, and then California’s extremely generous (and unnecessary?) EV incentive gives many people from other states an incentive jump through some hoops and papering to purchase and title their vehicle there.

protomyth 5y ago

The one problem is many reservations are nowhere near cities. The federal government tended to want to put Native Americans on land away from the settlers. The other problem is how the tribe implemented its TERO (Tribal Employment Rights Ordinance or Office) rules. They can often be particularly odious to business ventures on the reservation.

beambot 5y ago
Can tribes create embassies? This sounds like a great boon to tribal economies: Buy land, turn into embassy (sovereign land), lease building to Tesla for dealership, profit.
- protomyth 5y ago
  The Navajo Nation has one in DC, but its not really a true embassy with all the diplomatic privileges and it isn't considered part of the tribal land. As to adding land, its complicated https://www.bia.gov/bia/ots https://www.bia.gov/bia/ots https://www.fns.usda.gov/fdpir/distinction-between-reservations-and-land-held-trust https://www.fns.usda.gov/fdpir/distinction-between-reservati...
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Can tribes create embassies? No. Just as US states can't (tribal “sovereignty” is even farther from that of independent states than that of US states is.) > Buy land, turn into embassy Even for entities that can create embassies, that's not how they are created. You can't just acquire fee simple title and then at-will promote it to embassy status.

rootusrootus 5y ago

> drive a stake through the heart of third-party dealerships, that's a positive development. For Tesla to kill third-party dealers, they'd have to do everything third-party dealers do, and then they'd be indistinguishable from third-party dealers. It's fashionable to think Tesla has the Better Way and that auto dealers are universally bad, but consumers largely don't agree.

yupper32 5y ago
> It's fashionable to think Tesla has the Better Way and that auto dealers are universally bad, but consumers largely don't agree. There wouldn't need to be laws restricting Tesla from selling direct to consumer if that was the case. Let the consumer decide what they want.
- Splendor 5y ago
  > There wouldn't need to be laws restricting Tesla from selling direct to consumer if that was the case. That's just not true. Consumers wouldn't have a choice if an automaker was allowed to make their new vehicles only available from a direct showroom.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    Sorry what value does a third party showroom provide that a direct showroom wouldn't? And currently car companies compete with each other. If one saw third party showrooms as something the consumer wants, then they would continue doing it to compete.
    - Splendor 5y ago
      You seem to have missed the part of my comment where I said "if an automaker was allowed to make their new vehicles only available from a direct showroom". If the automaker didn't allow other dealers to sell new vehicles, they wouldn't be able to compete. It's very simple.

encryptluks2 5y ago

Yes, positive. Now all businesses can start using reservations to circumvent laws and regulations, and before you know it that reservation land just becomes the latest trend in ways for America to further destroy Native American traditions and prosperity. Not even to mention that most tribes now operate essentially corrupt pyramid organizations where the money often doesn't flow down and many tribe members never see any of the profits or benefits.

Robotbeat 5y ago
That’s denying the fact that Native American nations have agency and they welcomed this development. L
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Who do you think is making these decisions at various tribes? There is corruption throughout in all systems.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    They elect their leadership. You really saying that their decisions are illegitimate? That they cannot govern themselves?

dreamcompiler 5y ago

I suspect part of Tesla's plan is to build solar power facilities on the reservations, which would be great for the tribes if they can sell the power to the grid. (The tribes in NM and AZ have a tremendous solar resource.) Transmission lines would be the potential holdup with that plan though.