4 ms·

>The moment hospitals made being vaccinated a requirement for receiving care (which is horrific and would never happen), every single unvaccinated COVID patient

>The moment hospitals made being vaccinated a requirement for receiving care (which is horrific and would never happen), every single unvaccinated COVID patient would simply lie and say they were vaccinated. How would this work if by getting vaccinated you get a record of the vaccination? The card everybody receives isn't the only record of vaccination. There's some database (or multiple). Hence why in California specifically you can look up your name and cross-reference it with where you received the vaccination and it'll show you your digital record along with a QR code that links to it.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
If someone arrives at the emergency room in critical situation we're not going to have them wait while someone in the records department tries to confirm their vaccination status. What if someone claims they were vaccinated in another country without readily accessible records? Do you just turn them away? Doesn't work.
- mindslight 5y ago
  How do you know if someone is unvaccinated? Don't worry, they'll tell you. But seriously have you ever been to a hospital? Everything happens very slowly. When a patient is waiting around in the emergency room, there are many hours to make the decision where they're going next. Also, are hospitals not still doing separate wards for Covid/not-Covid? A good first pass would be simply increasing the allocation for non-Covid.
lolwut9863 5y ago
It works like this: if you end up in the hospital because of COVID, the odds are really, really overwhelmingly indicating you’re not vaccinated. No need to check ID, reality will do the heavy lifting for you.
- nradov 5y ago
  I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but breakthrough infections with severe symptoms are still common among older patients. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-6...
  - lolwut9863 5y ago
    Yes, it would be unfortunate to be on the wrong side of that. But triage isn’t about being perfect, it’s about doing what you can quickly without second guessing it. 15:1 odds are good enough for a quick decision about who to prioritize.
    - xboxnolifes 5y ago
      triage is also not about making morality judgements.
      - hazmazlaz 5y ago
        It should be. Like it or not, one cannot avoid the moral implications of a decision to treat or not to treat. If more of the hospital resources are being used by people who knowingly placed themselves in harm's way, then there are less resources available for those who bear less responsibility for their predicament. There are already examples of this kind of moral judgement in medicine - eligibility for scarce transplant organs.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  The biggest number I have seen was something like 15x more likely to be unvaccinated. That's not "really really overwhelmingly", nor is it enough for ER admitting people to assume anything.
  - lolwut9863 5y ago
    15:1 odds are definitely high enough to address the issue in triage. Perfect is the enemy here, we just need to do the best we can, given the moments and information we have.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

If someone arrives at the emergency room in critical situation we're not going to have them wait while someone in the records department tries to confirm their vaccination status. What if someone claims they were vaccinated in another country without readily accessible records? Do you just turn them away? Doesn't work.

mindslight 5y ago
How do you know if someone is unvaccinated? Don't worry, they'll tell you. But seriously have you ever been to a hospital? Everything happens very slowly. When a patient is waiting around in the emergency room, there are many hours to make the decision where they're going next. Also, are hospitals not still doing separate wards for Covid/not-Covid? A good first pass would be simply increasing the allocation for non-Covid.

lolwut9863 5y ago

It works like this: if you end up in the hospital because of COVID, the odds are really, really overwhelmingly indicating you’re not vaccinated. No need to check ID, reality will do the heavy lifting for you.

nradov 5y ago
I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but breakthrough infections with severe symptoms are still common among older patients. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-6...
- lolwut9863 5y ago
  Yes, it would be unfortunate to be on the wrong side of that. But triage isn’t about being perfect, it’s about doing what you can quickly without second guessing it. 15:1 odds are good enough for a quick decision about who to prioritize.
  - xboxnolifes 5y ago
    triage is also not about making morality judgements.
    - hazmazlaz 5y ago
      It should be. Like it or not, one cannot avoid the moral implications of a decision to treat or not to treat. If more of the hospital resources are being used by people who knowingly placed themselves in harm's way, then there are less resources available for those who bear less responsibility for their predicament. There are already examples of this kind of moral judgement in medicine - eligibility for scarce transplant organs.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
The biggest number I have seen was something like 15x more likely to be unvaccinated. That's not "really really overwhelmingly", nor is it enough for ER admitting people to assume anything.
- lolwut9863 5y ago
  15:1 odds are definitely high enough to address the issue in triage. Perfect is the enemy here, we just need to do the best we can, given the moments and information we have.