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Steve Klabnik is well known in HN and in the Rust community, he mentioned it privately and doesn't seem to want to air dirty laundry more than he has too. You

Steve Klabnik is well known in HN and in the Rust community, he mentioned it privately and doesn't seem to want to air dirty laundry more than he has too. You can either see his history and trust that he wants to get as much done with as little said as possible or say you trust Amazon. Either is understandable but I think it's reasonable to be a known member of a community and speak up just enough to hopefully get the ball rolling in a better direction.

ilaksh 5y ago
I assume that Amazon getting too much control is a real problem. But also suspect that deep down the true concern Klabnik has is that Steve Klabnik thinks Rust is about him, or at least he is the one that is supposed to write articles about what Rust is about. Not someone from Amazon or anywhere else.
- steveklabnik 5y ago
  I do not think Rust is about me. Note that I specifically say that Rust should not be about any individual, let alone a company. I’ve made my case against BDFLs for years.
  - senderista 5y ago
    Rust certainly cannot be “about” one person who has made zero technical contributions to the language.
    - steveklabnik 5y ago
      One of my favorite aspects of the way the Rust community has acted over the last decade is to recognize that there are many ways to contribute to open source. I know not everyone feels that way. Luckily, since I don't want Rust to be about me, we're in agreement that I should not be in charge of Rust.
  - Animats 5y ago
    That is a problem. Perl 6 and Python 3 did not go well.
- type0 5y ago
  > But also suspect that deep down the true concern Klabnik has is that Steve Klabnik thinks Rust is about him, or... Oh, don't post this kind of personal attacks.
  - ilaksh 5y ago
    It's not a personal attack. It's just a theory. There was nothing substantive in the article.
    - mnk47 5y ago
      There was nothing substantive in the article because it got edited soon after his tweet. https://web.archive.org/web/20210913110658/https://www.infoworld.com/article/3633002/the-future-of-rust.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210913110658/https://www.infow...
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  He's pointing out big changes coming to control of the Rust foundation and positing that Rust foundation being controlled by one large single corporate entity probably is not a good thing. Nothing in there seemed to me like he wanted to be the one in control.
ipaddr 5y ago
Because he is well known many will listen. The not airing dirty laundry and not detailing the issue means no one knows what is going on and no one can help. If it's a private fight I would understand if they wanted to keep it private. If it's a public issue what is happening.
- dmix 5y ago
  This is one of my pet peeves on social media. Nothing is worse than vague references to personal issues or something requiring inside knowledge, while the person refuses to elaborate (not saying this is true here, I haven't dug into this issue). If you're going to make it public, decide to actually make it public.
  - type0 5y ago
    He could have expressed his concerns in a coherent blog post, that maybe could have sprawled a more serious discussion, we all know he's a good writer. Choosing to do this in a series of tweets tells just one thing - "nothing of substance here, move on".
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> he mentioned it privately and doesn't seem to want to air dirty laundry more than he has too. Unfortunately, it seems we're getting the worst of both worlds: The dirty laundry is being aired in this thread, but the actual details are being withheld. From the Tweet thread: > they've also taken steps to marginalize the core team. and some other dirty shit I won't say rn. I'm not a fan of these "just trust me" accusations.
- rualca 5y ago
  > I'm not a fan of these "just trust me" accusations. Feel free to disregard the trailing sentence. However, it's not fair do discard each and any substantiated accusation by trying to shift the attention to a passing comment, specially a common one which is used as a figure of speech.
secuthro22 5y ago
>You can either see his history and trust that he wants to get as much done with as little said as possible or say you trust Amazon Or I can trust neither, and expect that both sides act like adults and actually state their concerns and accusations rather than vague "just trust me, you should be upset" statements. Whipping everyone into a furor with vague concerns without actually giving enough information to address those concerns is the worst form of "discussion", if you can even call it that.
- LanceH 5y ago
  I said something similar and got downvoted. I should have been more clear that posting this to HN as though it is meaningful is the problem. There is no substance to the tweets (it's his twitter account, go wild), and really has no business being here.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- marricks 5y ago
  He called out specific things and had a tweet which was pretty vague about some bad behavior. If you want to focus on that and imply it's childish you are the one distracting from discussing more important issues. That's probably why takes like that get downvoted. --- From the comments Steve has made it sounds like Amazon effectively has control of Rust not only because of their large involvement but also because a strange set of governing circumstances. I guess I can see how if he led with that it might be clearer why all the concern, guess he didn't want to spell it out so directly and point fingers.
  - secuthro22 5y ago
    He said in his first tweet that he wants to have a "serious conversation", then goes on to list three grievances: that Amazon has a lot of involvement in Rust leadership, that Amazon "marginalized the core team" (but no details) and that Amazon "has done some other dirty shit" (but no details). That's two out of three grievances that have no substance whatsoever. You cannot have a serious conversation about these things if there is not more detail. I'm not distracting from anything, I'm asking Steve to either step up and discuss these things as he stated he wants to do, or he needs to stop distracting from serious issues with these snarky one-liners. If you include something like that in a tweet, you should expect to follow up on it. It's ridiculous and disingenuous to tweet something like that and then say "well I don't actually want to talk about that and it's your fault for not reading my mind to know that". >That's probably why takes like that get downvoted. My comment currently has 50 upvotes. I don't think I'm the only person saying this.
sergiomattei 5y ago
More than he has to? Dude already named names. Cat's out of the bag, might as well go all the way.
- wibagusto 5y ago
  Why I don’t use Twitter. Rust will be old-hat once the it’s replacement comes out in 2025. Edit: why I will not tweet about why I will not use rust. Edit: why I do not understand why the Rust community is overzealous. Edit: overzealous nerds are very annoying.
lolllllll 5y ago
He's well known as a SJW communist yes.
refenestrator 5y ago
Either air dirty laundry or don't, then. "They are super shady, trust me" is worse than both.
vjust 5y ago
Agreed. Amazon might start off with good intentions, but it won't end nicely.

ilaksh 5y ago

I assume that Amazon getting too much control is a real problem. But also suspect that deep down the true concern Klabnik has is that Steve Klabnik thinks Rust is about him, or at least he is the one that is supposed to write articles about what Rust is about. Not someone from Amazon or anywhere else.

steveklabnik 5y ago
I do not think Rust is about me. Note that I specifically say that Rust should not be about any individual, let alone a company. I’ve made my case against BDFLs for years.
- senderista 5y ago
  Rust certainly cannot be “about” one person who has made zero technical contributions to the language.
  - steveklabnik 5y ago
    One of my favorite aspects of the way the Rust community has acted over the last decade is to recognize that there are many ways to contribute to open source. I know not everyone feels that way. Luckily, since I don't want Rust to be about me, we're in agreement that I should not be in charge of Rust.
- Animats 5y ago
  That is a problem. Perl 6 and Python 3 did not go well.
type0 5y ago
> But also suspect that deep down the true concern Klabnik has is that Steve Klabnik thinks Rust is about him, or... Oh, don't post this kind of personal attacks.
- ilaksh 5y ago
  It's not a personal attack. It's just a theory. There was nothing substantive in the article.
  - mnk47 5y ago
    There was nothing substantive in the article because it got edited soon after his tweet. https://web.archive.org/web/20210913110658/https://www.infoworld.com/article/3633002/the-future-of-rust.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210913110658/https://www.infow...
stjohnswarts 5y ago
He's pointing out big changes coming to control of the Rust foundation and positing that Rust foundation being controlled by one large single corporate entity probably is not a good thing. Nothing in there seemed to me like he wanted to be the one in control.

ipaddr 5y ago

Because he is well known many will listen. The not airing dirty laundry and not detailing the issue means no one knows what is going on and no one can help. If it's a private fight I would understand if they wanted to keep it private. If it's a public issue what is happening.

dmix 5y ago
This is one of my pet peeves on social media. Nothing is worse than vague references to personal issues or something requiring inside knowledge, while the person refuses to elaborate (not saying this is true here, I haven't dug into this issue). If you're going to make it public, decide to actually make it public.
- type0 5y ago
  He could have expressed his concerns in a coherent blog post, that maybe could have sprawled a more serious discussion, we all know he's a good writer. Choosing to do this in a series of tweets tells just one thing - "nothing of substance here, move on".

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> he mentioned it privately and doesn't seem to want to air dirty laundry more than he has too. Unfortunately, it seems we're getting the worst of both worlds: The dirty laundry is being aired in this thread, but the actual details are being withheld. From the Tweet thread: > they've also taken steps to marginalize the core team. and some other dirty shit I won't say rn. I'm not a fan of these "just trust me" accusations.

rualca 5y ago
> I'm not a fan of these "just trust me" accusations. Feel free to disregard the trailing sentence. However, it's not fair do discard each and any substantiated accusation by trying to shift the attention to a passing comment, specially a common one which is used as a figure of speech.

secuthro22 5y ago

>You can either see his history and trust that he wants to get as much done with as little said as possible or say you trust Amazon Or I can trust neither, and expect that both sides act like adults and actually state their concerns and accusations rather than vague "just trust me, you should be upset" statements. Whipping everyone into a furor with vague concerns without actually giving enough information to address those concerns is the worst form of "discussion", if you can even call it that.

LanceH 5y ago
I said something similar and got downvoted. I should have been more clear that posting this to HN as though it is meaningful is the problem. There is no substance to the tweets (it's his twitter account, go wild), and really has no business being here.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
marricks 5y ago
He called out specific things and had a tweet which was pretty vague about some bad behavior. If you want to focus on that and imply it's childish you are the one distracting from discussing more important issues. That's probably why takes like that get downvoted. --- From the comments Steve has made it sounds like Amazon effectively has control of Rust not only because of their large involvement but also because a strange set of governing circumstances. I guess I can see how if he led with that it might be clearer why all the concern, guess he didn't want to spell it out so directly and point fingers.
- secuthro22 5y ago
  He said in his first tweet that he wants to have a "serious conversation", then goes on to list three grievances: that Amazon has a lot of involvement in Rust leadership, that Amazon "marginalized the core team" (but no details) and that Amazon "has done some other dirty shit" (but no details). That's two out of three grievances that have no substance whatsoever. You cannot have a serious conversation about these things if there is not more detail. I'm not distracting from anything, I'm asking Steve to either step up and discuss these things as he stated he wants to do, or he needs to stop distracting from serious issues with these snarky one-liners. If you include something like that in a tweet, you should expect to follow up on it. It's ridiculous and disingenuous to tweet something like that and then say "well I don't actually want to talk about that and it's your fault for not reading my mind to know that". >That's probably why takes like that get downvoted. My comment currently has 50 upvotes. I don't think I'm the only person saying this.

sergiomattei 5y ago

More than he has to? Dude already named names. Cat's out of the bag, might as well go all the way.

wibagusto 5y ago
Why I don’t use Twitter. Rust will be old-hat once the it’s replacement comes out in 2025. Edit: why I will not tweet about why I will not use rust. Edit: why I do not understand why the Rust community is overzealous. Edit: overzealous nerds are very annoying.

lolllllll 5y ago

He's well known as a SJW communist yes.

refenestrator 5y ago

Either air dirty laundry or don't, then. "They are super shady, trust me" is worse than both.

vjust 5y ago

Agreed. Amazon might start off with good intentions, but it won't end nicely.