5 ms·

Brock Turner wasn't elite in any sense besides his acceptance into Stanford, which had been revoked. His father was an electrical engineer and his mom was a nur

by Aunche 5y ago

Brock Turner wasn't elite in any sense besides his acceptance into Stanford, which had been revoked. His father was an electrical engineer and his mom was a nurse. Also, the judge who made the ruling was fired.

SamBam 5y ago
GP referred to "not-so-elite." In this case, the small bit of "eliteness" would be white, male, athlete (All-American), upper middle class, accepted into a good college. And that's probably enough to justify saying he has a "bright future," in this country and day and age.
- cratermoon 5y ago
  That's white, male, athlete, upper middle class, accepted into a good college, living in America. From a global perspective, the eliteness is far more than a "small bit".
  - SamBam 5y ago
    Sure, but in this case we're comparing the treatment (by courts, etc) of the elite vs non-elite in America.
    - cratermoon 5y ago
      There are peculiarities of eliteness in America that matter here. Because Americans maintain the fiction of a classless society and don't have the legal framework of a caste system, what counts as elite in America affects how the world views American elites, and how Americans view elites in other cultures. We don't for example, care how many cows in a bride's dowry.
      - filoleg 5y ago
        The number of cows in a bride’s dowry is just a straightforward proxy for wealth, and that’s pretty universal. Sure, in some cultures they use the number of cows as the reference point, in others they use the jewelry worn or the car driven by the individual. I know that some people compete in who can afford to spend the most money on their wedding too. All of these are literally just another way of quantifying wealth through displays of it (regardless of whether it is real wealth or they just decided to spend all their savings on a $100k wedding). And I dont see how this is somehow unique to the US at all.
        cratermoon 5y ago
        Can you imagine a judge in the US letting someone convicted of sexual assault off with a light sentence because he has a lot of cows? The point is that the elitism is not just relative to other Americans, but to the rest of the world.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - adventured 5y ago
        > Because Americans maintain the fiction of a classless society There is nobody in the US that believes US society is classless. Talk about fictions. Everyone knows upper class, middle class, lower class segmentation. So how is it you reconcile your premise of Americans not thinking there are classes when everyone in the country defines themselves by such structures? Americans are taught the class structures all throughout school. Americans are informed about the class structures 24/7 by popular media and news, from the NYTimes to CNBC and everything inbetween. The hyper rich and the poor have been an always part of US society. There are no exceptions in terms of grasping the distinction, nobody fails to get it. The US has had hyper rich and poor since its founding and everyone here has always been aware of the divisions. It's in our history books, it's in our earliest literature. It's omnipresent as a thing. Before there was the industrial wealthy and working poor, there were the land barons and British lords, farmers, agrarian workers and the slaves that were brought to the US by the conquering European empires. The class systems here quite pre-date the country, so yes, Americans are fully aware of it all. It has never not been part of US society.
        cratermoon 5y ago
        The fiction is that there's class mobility. That's part of why others commenting here have tilted towards minimizing the eliteness of a criminal convicted of sexual assault: they want to think that his "hard work" landed him where he is and that they, too, might accomplish as much once they grasp their own bootstraps.
gkop 5y ago
> All-American swimmer https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/31/all-american-swimmer-found-guilty-of-sexually-assaulting-unconscious-woman-on-stanford-campus/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/3... Athletics are another sense in which he was elite.
- uselesscynicism 5y ago
  I thought the whole point of them complaining about "rules for thee, not for me" and "the elite" were class complaints, but now the goalposts are moved and so anyone who excels at anything is part of "the elite"? Yes, I suppose the kulaks were members of the bourgeoisie after all, for they had skills, and skills are capital, and thus they are part of the oppressor class -- the elite. Indeed, his mother, a nurse, and his father, as an engineer, both possessed intellectual capital and are thus counterrevolutionaries. Just to be clear: the above is somewhat tongue in cheek and obviously nothing about the boy's background should be relevant in a violent crime case, and his was particularly disgusting.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  Seriously, top athletes live on another planet in University. I remember working at the UT-Austin textbook store in my 20s and while everyone else had to find what they needed on their own, the football team had special permits they could bring you to not only get their books for free but you had to go get them for them
cratermoon 5y ago
> wasn't elite in any sense besides his acceptance into Stanford Pardon my rudeness, but if that's the only thing someone sees as elite, I'd suggest that the person's own elite status is just a notch below them.
JadeNB 5y ago
> Also, the judge who made the ruling was fired. Just as a matter of terminology, I think one doesn't usually speak of judges being fired. He lost his seat in a recall election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Persky#Repercussions_to_Persky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Persky#Repercussions_to_...
- geebee 5y ago
  My understanding is that he also had a history of giving light sentences, not just to upper middle class defendants, and that his banishment has gone well beyond losing his job. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/11/recalled-judge-brock-turner-sexual-assault-trial-hired-girls-jv-tennis-coach/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/11/recalled-ju...
vmception 5y ago
> Also, the judge who made the ruling was fired. (By recall election right?)
- cratermoon 5y ago
  Yes, he was recalled. It's unlikely that if he'd been an appointed-for-life judge that the legislature would have removed him.
kaesar14 5y ago
A white male All-American athlete attending arguably America's most prestigious university isn't elite?
asdff 5y ago
He is far from the only case of the rich getting differential treatment under the law. These stories are really a dime a dozen. How about this case of a rich boy from the affluent suburbs of LA (palos verdes estates, where Trump's golf course is), decides its cool to become a gang banger, gets involved with a murder, and is acquitted. https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/07/23/cameron-terrell-acquitted-palos-verdes-estates/ https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/07/23/cameron-terrell-a...
anigbrowl 5y ago
The existence of a remedy isn't a good excuse for avoidable injuries. The resolutions you allude to in that case took place after the public became incensed at the delicate treatment handed out to a guy who was literally caught in the act of humping a passed out woman behind a dumpster.

by Aunche 5y ago

SamBam 5y ago

GP referred to "not-so-elite." In this case, the small bit of "eliteness" would be white, male, athlete (All-American), upper middle class, accepted into a good college. And that's probably enough to justify saying he has a "bright future," in this country and day and age.

cratermoon 5y ago
That's white, male, athlete, upper middle class, accepted into a good college, living in America. From a global perspective, the eliteness is far more than a "small bit".
- SamBam 5y ago
  Sure, but in this case we're comparing the treatment (by courts, etc) of the elite vs non-elite in America.
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    There are peculiarities of eliteness in America that matter here. Because Americans maintain the fiction of a classless society and don't have the legal framework of a caste system, what counts as elite in America affects how the world views American elites, and how Americans view elites in other cultures. We don't for example, care how many cows in a bride's dowry.
    - filoleg 5y ago
      The number of cows in a bride’s dowry is just a straightforward proxy for wealth, and that’s pretty universal. Sure, in some cultures they use the number of cows as the reference point, in others they use the jewelry worn or the car driven by the individual. I know that some people compete in who can afford to spend the most money on their wedding too. All of these are literally just another way of quantifying wealth through displays of it (regardless of whether it is real wealth or they just decided to spend all their savings on a $100k wedding). And I dont see how this is somehow unique to the US at all.
      - cratermoon 5y ago
        Can you imagine a judge in the US letting someone convicted of sexual assault off with a light sentence because he has a lot of cows? The point is that the elitism is not just relative to other Americans, but to the rest of the world.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - adventured 5y ago
      > Because Americans maintain the fiction of a classless society There is nobody in the US that believes US society is classless. Talk about fictions. Everyone knows upper class, middle class, lower class segmentation. So how is it you reconcile your premise of Americans not thinking there are classes when everyone in the country defines themselves by such structures? Americans are taught the class structures all throughout school. Americans are informed about the class structures 24/7 by popular media and news, from the NYTimes to CNBC and everything inbetween. The hyper rich and the poor have been an always part of US society. There are no exceptions in terms of grasping the distinction, nobody fails to get it. The US has had hyper rich and poor since its founding and everyone here has always been aware of the divisions. It's in our history books, it's in our earliest literature. It's omnipresent as a thing. Before there was the industrial wealthy and working poor, there were the land barons and British lords, farmers, agrarian workers and the slaves that were brought to the US by the conquering European empires. The class systems here quite pre-date the country, so yes, Americans are fully aware of it all. It has never not been part of US society.
      - cratermoon 5y ago
        The fiction is that there's class mobility. That's part of why others commenting here have tilted towards minimizing the eliteness of a criminal convicted of sexual assault: they want to think that his "hard work" landed him where he is and that they, too, might accomplish as much once they grasp their own bootstraps.

gkop 5y ago

> All-American swimmer https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/31/all-american-swimmer-found-guilty-of-sexually-assaulting-unconscious-woman-on-stanford-campus/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/3... Athletics are another sense in which he was elite.

uselesscynicism 5y ago
I thought the whole point of them complaining about "rules for thee, not for me" and "the elite" were class complaints, but now the goalposts are moved and so anyone who excels at anything is part of "the elite"? Yes, I suppose the kulaks were members of the bourgeoisie after all, for they had skills, and skills are capital, and thus they are part of the oppressor class -- the elite. Indeed, his mother, a nurse, and his father, as an engineer, both possessed intellectual capital and are thus counterrevolutionaries. Just to be clear: the above is somewhat tongue in cheek and obviously nothing about the boy's background should be relevant in a violent crime case, and his was particularly disgusting.
imbnwa 5y ago
Seriously, top athletes live on another planet in University. I remember working at the UT-Austin textbook store in my 20s and while everyone else had to find what they needed on their own, the football team had special permits they could bring you to not only get their books for free but you had to go get them for them

cratermoon 5y ago

> wasn't elite in any sense besides his acceptance into Stanford Pardon my rudeness, but if that's the only thing someone sees as elite, I'd suggest that the person's own elite status is just a notch below them.

JadeNB 5y ago

> Also, the judge who made the ruling was fired. Just as a matter of terminology, I think one doesn't usually speak of judges being fired. He lost his seat in a recall election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Persky#Repercussions_to_Persky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Persky#Repercussions_to_...

geebee 5y ago
My understanding is that he also had a history of giving light sentences, not just to upper middle class defendants, and that his banishment has gone well beyond losing his job. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/11/recalled-judge-brock-turner-sexual-assault-trial-hired-girls-jv-tennis-coach/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/11/recalled-ju...

vmception 5y ago

> Also, the judge who made the ruling was fired. (By recall election right?)

cratermoon 5y ago
Yes, he was recalled. It's unlikely that if he'd been an appointed-for-life judge that the legislature would have removed him.

kaesar14 5y ago

A white male All-American athlete attending arguably America's most prestigious university isn't elite?

asdff 5y ago

He is far from the only case of the rich getting differential treatment under the law. These stories are really a dime a dozen. How about this case of a rich boy from the affluent suburbs of LA (palos verdes estates, where Trump's golf course is), decides its cool to become a gang banger, gets involved with a murder, and is acquitted. https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/07/23/cameron-terrell-acquitted-palos-verdes-estates/ https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/07/23/cameron-terrell-a...

anigbrowl 5y ago

The existence of a remedy isn't a good excuse for avoidable injuries. The resolutions you allude to in that case took place after the public became incensed at the delicate treatment handed out to a guy who was literally caught in the act of humping a passed out woman behind a dumpster.