5 ms·

C++ has package management?

by xorcist 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago
Yes, vcpkg, NuGET and Conan.
bkallus 5y ago
Conan among others.
- kubb 5y ago
  Written in Python, incidentally.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Which is why I refuse to use it, and use vcpkg.
hoseja 5y ago
There's like 50 different ones with different models of what a package is, capabilities, etc. But at least when it's such a pain you don't end up with JS mess where everything depends on everything and deleting a trivial package breaks half the web.
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > But at least when it's such a pain you don't end up with JS mess where everything depends on everything and deleting a trivial package breaks half the web. JS doesn't have real issues, when I say JS I say in the context in which it was created, AKA the browser. Browsers have an huge API where everything and its contrary are possible. The problem is Node.js delegating the most basic things to a for profit company, NPM and it was 100% by design... with Node.js, you can't even parse a multipart request without a 3rd party package... the whole "unix philosophy" for packages was purely marketing bullshit and someone got very rich exploiting Node.js bad choices (Isaac...)
  - capableweb 5y ago
    > you can't even parse a multipart request without a 3rd party package Of course you can (if you want to), how do you think all of those 3rd party packages are built in the first place? Using NodeJS APIs of course, that you can also use if you want to. But why re-invent the wheel when someone already created it? Just make sure the library you include serves one purpose, has a light amount of code, actually does what you want it to and doesn't change their own API willy nilly. Following these guidelines (for any language ecosystem you use) leads to a lot less hassle when it comes to dependencies.
    - throw_m239339 5y ago
      > Of course you can (if you want to), how do you think all of those 3rd party packages are built in the first place? Using NodeJS APIs of course, that you can also use if you want to. Don't be obtuse, by that logic you don't need to use any third party package to write a professional app backed by database in node.js, just write your own MYSQL/Postgres driver? hey /s My point is I shouldn't have to download a package or write a multipart request parser to manage files sent to a http server. Someone made a profit out of that stupid situation with a terrible package manager, NPM, all by design. Node.js creator himself said that relying on NPM was a terrible mistake, that's why he went on creating DENO.
      - capableweb 5y ago
        > My point is I shouldn't have to download a package or write a multipart request parser to manage files sent to a http server. Honestly, how many languages ship something like a multipart parser with the core API? And to be frank, I don't think I'd like the language I'm using to do this, only ~30% of my projects touch web-related stuff anyways. > Someone made a profit out of that stupid situation with a terrible package manager, NPM, all by design. I agree that NPM/NPM Inc is horrible, but for lots of other reasons. Also don't think it was on purpose, just poor and rushed design. > Node.js creator himself said that relying on NPM was a terrible mistake, that's why he went on creating DENO. So? Doesn't mean he is right, who knows what have happened with NPM? Maybe NodeJS would never have taken off in the first place. Brendan Eich also apparently doesn't like gay people, does that mean every JS developer needs to think like him?
- jayflux 5y ago
  > and deleting a trivial package breaks half the web. I assume you’re talking about the left-pad incident? It happened over 5 years ago and policies have been put in place to stop it happening again. It was a mistake, they learned from it and moved on. Secondly, this issue isn’t specific to JS or NPM, a few years ago someone deleted their Golang project on GitHub and broke the ecosystem in a similar way. If anything, it’s less likely to happen on NPM today as it acts as a cache
  - bscphil 5y ago
    I don't think your parent comment was hating on NPM / Node specifically, but rather was pointing out that the biggest determiner of whether programmers on a particular platform depend willy-nilly on whatever libraries they can find just to make coding small features more convenient is whether the language ecosystem they're in makes that easy to do. For that reason, your point about Go only further reinforces their point, since Go was (I think) the first language to make importing another project from the web completely trivial, just one line of code. On the one hand, I think it's bad for a language ecosystem to repeatedly get in the way of doing something that it many cases it does make sense to do, but on the other hand if you think (most) programmers are going to immediately take us to modern programming dependency hell without that, you can start to see it as a kind of silver lining.

C++ has package management?

pjmlp 5y ago

Yes, vcpkg, NuGET and Conan.

bkallus 5y ago

Conan among others.

kubb 5y ago
Written in Python, incidentally.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Which is why I refuse to use it, and use vcpkg.

hoseja 5y ago

There's like 50 different ones with different models of what a package is, capabilities, etc. But at least when it's such a pain you don't end up with JS mess where everything depends on everything and deleting a trivial package breaks half the web.

throw_m239339 5y ago
> But at least when it's such a pain you don't end up with JS mess where everything depends on everything and deleting a trivial package breaks half the web. JS doesn't have real issues, when I say JS I say in the context in which it was created, AKA the browser. Browsers have an huge API where everything and its contrary are possible. The problem is Node.js delegating the most basic things to a for profit company, NPM and it was 100% by design... with Node.js, you can't even parse a multipart request without a 3rd party package... the whole "unix philosophy" for packages was purely marketing bullshit and someone got very rich exploiting Node.js bad choices (Isaac...)
- capableweb 5y ago
  > you can't even parse a multipart request without a 3rd party package Of course you can (if you want to), how do you think all of those 3rd party packages are built in the first place? Using NodeJS APIs of course, that you can also use if you want to. But why re-invent the wheel when someone already created it? Just make sure the library you include serves one purpose, has a light amount of code, actually does what you want it to and doesn't change their own API willy nilly. Following these guidelines (for any language ecosystem you use) leads to a lot less hassle when it comes to dependencies.
  - throw_m239339 5y ago
    > Of course you can (if you want to), how do you think all of those 3rd party packages are built in the first place? Using NodeJS APIs of course, that you can also use if you want to. Don't be obtuse, by that logic you don't need to use any third party package to write a professional app backed by database in node.js, just write your own MYSQL/Postgres driver? hey /s My point is I shouldn't have to download a package or write a multipart request parser to manage files sent to a http server. Someone made a profit out of that stupid situation with a terrible package manager, NPM, all by design. Node.js creator himself said that relying on NPM was a terrible mistake, that's why he went on creating DENO.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      > My point is I shouldn't have to download a package or write a multipart request parser to manage files sent to a http server. Honestly, how many languages ship something like a multipart parser with the core API? And to be frank, I don't think I'd like the language I'm using to do this, only ~30% of my projects touch web-related stuff anyways. > Someone made a profit out of that stupid situation with a terrible package manager, NPM, all by design. I agree that NPM/NPM Inc is horrible, but for lots of other reasons. Also don't think it was on purpose, just poor and rushed design. > Node.js creator himself said that relying on NPM was a terrible mistake, that's why he went on creating DENO. So? Doesn't mean he is right, who knows what have happened with NPM? Maybe NodeJS would never have taken off in the first place. Brendan Eich also apparently doesn't like gay people, does that mean every JS developer needs to think like him?
jayflux 5y ago
> and deleting a trivial package breaks half the web. I assume you’re talking about the left-pad incident? It happened over 5 years ago and policies have been put in place to stop it happening again. It was a mistake, they learned from it and moved on. Secondly, this issue isn’t specific to JS or NPM, a few years ago someone deleted their Golang project on GitHub and broke the ecosystem in a similar way. If anything, it’s less likely to happen on NPM today as it acts as a cache
- bscphil 5y ago
  I don't think your parent comment was hating on NPM / Node specifically, but rather was pointing out that the biggest determiner of whether programmers on a particular platform depend willy-nilly on whatever libraries they can find just to make coding small features more convenient is whether the language ecosystem they're in makes that easy to do. For that reason, your point about Go only further reinforces their point, since Go was (I think) the first language to make importing another project from the web completely trivial, just one line of code. On the one hand, I think it's bad for a language ecosystem to repeatedly get in the way of doing something that it many cases it does make sense to do, but on the other hand if you think (most) programmers are going to immediately take us to modern programming dependency hell without that, you can start to see it as a kind of silver lining.