5 ms·

A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

85 points by baybal2 5y ago

yuy910616 5y ago
It sounds like an incredible book. I will certainly check it out. It fits well with my experience of China well - a place where Guanxi (關係）trumps all else. People fear it, hate it, but also aspire it. It's also interesting that how unlikely this book is. I've been in the West for more than 20 years, but I don't plan on speaking ill of China at all. Kudos to the author. Another book that I really enjoy that seem to be of the same ilk: confession of an economic hitman
- yuy910616 5y ago
  I also want to add the book is currently has 20 ratings on Amazon and 4.9 stars - I'm curious if a large flood of of negative reviews quickly get posted haha, since it is now on both the Economist and Hackernews, which I think China closely monitors.
  - stanislavb 5y ago
    I won’t be surprised at all to see a number of suspicious negative reviews.
    - danrocks 5y ago
      I live in Hong Kong. Many media outlets are closed monitored and relentlessly attacked with fake comments by the state apparatchiks. It's easy to spot, given: 1) Pervasive use of whataboutism; 2) Similar arguments in all comments, with a change or two in order or synonymous; 3) Use of Mandarin idioms translated to English, like "double confirm"; 4) Use of Mandarin sentence order translated to English, like "The USA last year in February in Afghanistan did ...". It's become a bit of game for me. I wish I enough knowledge of NLP to make this into a model and open source it as a wumao detector.
  - divbzero 5y ago
    Monitoring the Economist makes sense, but I’d be surprised if Hacker News is closely monitored as well.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      I'm not so sure. He is very likely to be aware of HN: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/xi-jinpings-bookshelf-offers-a-glimpse-into-chinas-goal-of-becoming-ai-powerhouse https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/xi-jinpings-book...
      - divbzero 5y ago
        I suspect the Economist has far broader readership and influence than HN, but I like the idea of him browsing these threads like the rest of us. (President Xi, if you’re reading I’d love to see a comment from you as a “long-time lurker”. Or, even better, wow us by announcing an AI advancement here with a “Show HN” post.)
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  I am not sure the comparison to Confessions of an Economic Hitman are positive. To me, that book was such unsubstantiated garbage that I left it in the airport where I bought it. It didn’t even make it to the plane.
  - danrocks 5y ago
    The fact he wrote other 4 books with "new" confessions speaks volumes about his credibility. Peddler of nonsense.
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  > It's also interesting that how unlikely this book is. "No Wall Too High" by Xu Hongci is another unlikely excellent story of a man escaping from communist China. He's imprisoned multiple times and ends up escaping to eventually marry a woman from Mongolia. Then in the Deng era he settles again in Shanghai and publishes his story in Chinese. Later this manuscript was discovered via his surviving wife, translated to English and published in 2017. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HMNETEA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HMNETEA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
- est 5y ago
  There's nothing special about Guanxi, it literally means "networking" of well-connected people. Unless I am missing something?
  - dustintrex 5y ago
    Since China is a low-trust society, networking is far more important than in high-trust societies like most of the West (or Japan, for that matter). This is not unique to China, of course, but it does mean business, politics and even seemingly mundane things like healthcare and schools operate quite differently to what you might expect.
    - yuy910616 5y ago
      Yep, this is exactly it. It's not that networking is unique, is that such connection is often used to replace things like law, justice, or a simple queue. In my own experience, where I went to kindergarten was an outcome of who my grandma knew. Similarly, when I was sick and needed to see a doctor, I had to know someone who knew someone... Yes - it's similar in the west. But to say they're the same would be like saying 100M dash and marathon is the same sport.
    - est 5y ago
      > like healthcare and schools operate quite differently I'd argue the reason you don't see much Guanxi in the America is because the best healthcare or school are already run by the private sector.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- driveyouhome 5y ago
  Confessions of an Economic Hitman was an eye opener for me. I was recommended this by my Econ professor and it left a lasting impression on me
  - yuy910616 5y ago
    Funny - I read it for a history class. The book Banana was also quite interesting.
seibelj 5y ago
This is so incredibly obvious it’s amazing that anyone would think otherwise. Say what you want about western government but I’d much rather anger the US government as a US citizen than anger the Chinese government as a Chinese citizen. In China I’d be extremely concerned about my family arrested, arbitrary trials, forced medication with debilitating drugs, bullet in my head, etc. In America we may let the Sacklers buy their way out of prison but I prefer this to the fear, violence, illegitimacy, and madness of communism. You don’t appreciate the rule of law and equal justice until you are on the wrong side of power.
- phyrex 5y ago
  Tell that to Snowden and the other whistle blowers
  - seibelj 5y ago
    In America we have people like Snowden, and other political prisoners like Ross Ulbricht. However reasonable people can debate about what they did. I would say both deserve to be free. In China the rule is Snowden. Everyone becomes Snowden if you speak any truth whatsoever to power.
    - fidesomnes 5y ago
      Ross Ulbricht is not a political prisoner and he would have been deleted by the Chinese by now.
    - jim-jim-jim 5y ago
      Does that distinction speak for the liberal charity of Western governments, or the utter uselessness of most dissent? Maybe the feds are chill with our social media posts and placard waggling because they know nothing will come out of it. But see how quickly they move when they're compelled to.
      - seibelj 5y ago
        Saying stuff on social media is not relevant to society. The only things relevant to society are groups of people. If you have millions of Twitter followers then saying something online matters because you can influence a large group. If your ideas start a movement and those people vote, then politicians will listen. You could also hire lobbyists and use financial resources to influence. The point is ideas without influence might as well never have existed. In China however they police and censor even individual social media posts, let alone allow influencers to gain millions of followers if they disagree with government policy. This is a deeply paranoid and illegitimate government that uses fear and violence to get its way. Very different from western democracy.
Kibae 5y ago
Archive Version: https://web.archive.org/web/20210912041701/https://www.economist.com/china/2021/09/11/a-new-book-looks-behind-xi-jinpings-anti-corruption-campaign https://web.archive.org/web/20210912041701/https://www.econo...
- yellow_lead 5y ago
  The archived version doesn't seem to have the paywall removed either. Anyone have another link? Edit- see one above
  - onionisafruit 5y ago
    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fchina%2F2021%2F09%2F11%2Fa-new-book-looks-behind-xi-jinpings-anti-corruption-campaign https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fch...
ent101 5y ago
https://archive.is/Ezm2a https://archive.is/Ezm2a
hildaman 5y ago
I read this book, it was truly jaw dropping to see the "Guanxi" system at work. From what I could tell, there is a whole system of unwritten rules about how different political factions could collect their "percentage", how these factions compete with each other and eliminate each other and so on. In a way, it is efficient because everyone who matters (i.e. princelings who control the CCP) has an incentive to "play the game". It is efficient because there are no nasty courts to slow you down, you don't have to deal with the lowest bidder nonsense - it all comes down to connections. The party credibility and the need hold power serves as a very powerful check on the system to prevent the system from becoming too blatantly corrupt and keeps the system going. But if you aren't someone who matters - i.e. a princeling, you will be forever on the outside looking in.
- jacob_rezi 5y ago
  Where can I purchase the book?
  - sien 5y ago
    Red Roulette: An Insider's Story of Wealth, Power, Corruption, and Vengeance in Today's China Kindle Edition by Desmond Shum https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VJP821L/ref=dp-kindle-redirect https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VJP821L/ref=dp-kindle-redirect
helloworld 5y ago
I remember William F. Buckley, Jr. once saying something like, "The question is not whether an elite will rule, but which elite will rule."
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  The ruling group of people are by definition the "elite".
- prpl 5y ago
  I have Russian colleagues who I asked about Navalny they had the same view as on him (despite how much they dislike Putin). I was mildly surprised to hear that viewpoint.
guiambros 5y ago
I bought a copy after reading about it last week on HN [1]. Still halfway through it, but really enjoying the story. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448
perihelions 5y ago
Related thread (6 days / 288 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448 ("Missing businesswoman urges ex-husband not to publish book critical of China (npr.org)")
BoHerfIVJrEsq 5y ago
Whenever some high-ranking CCP member is said to be doing something anti-corruption, it has to be understood that it really means anti-opposition. There's nothing going on about anti-corruption in the CCP; they're all utterly, irredeemably corrupt to the core, a big part of why someone even ascends to a high position in that organization. It's corruption beyond the wildest dreams of most people, like basements full of gold bars and such.
ddeville 5y ago
The actual book on Amazon: Red Roulette: An Insider's Story of Wealth, Power, Corruption, and Vengeance in Today's China https://www.amazon.com/dp/1982156155 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1982156155
dirtyid 5y ago
This book has fun anecdotes of elite graft, which is entertaining but not particularly useful for those interested in mechanisms of PRC corruption. Guanxi is just age old political patronage networks with Chinese characteristics, it's mundane not revelatory. The seminal book / academic for those interested in understanding PRC corruption systematically is Yuen Yuen Ang, China's Gilded Age: The Paradox of Economic Boom and Vast Corruption. The TLDR metaphor compares corruption to drugs, there are different types of corruption, with different effects. Chinese elite exchange-corruption discussed in the book is likened to steroids that boosts growth [0]. There's a reason why PRC is the only country where increased corruption is correlated to increased growth, as posited by Yukon Huan, World Bank director for China. But ultimately, drugs have harmful side effects that will eventually catch up to the body-politic, hence the anti-corruption drive. The useful takeaway from review: >In some aspects, Mr Shum’s book supports Mr Xi’s diagnosis of China’s ills. It describes sleaze that largely predates Mr Xi’s elevation as party chief in 2012. Since then, the Xi era has witnessed an anti-corruption drive that has seen more than 1.5m officials punished. Mr Xi himself grumbles about foot-dragging officials who put parochial interests first. ... >It argues that Mr Xi’s anti-corruption drive is as much a campaign to consolidate power as a sincere attempt to reform a rotten system. Note "sincere attempt". Xi's anti-corruption and power consolidation doesn't have to be mutually exclusive or contradictory. Xi didn't start with 1.5M political enemies, there's no reason to be so comprehensive except sincere need to tackle a widely recognized issue. There's good reason to want to consolidate power if Xi has to step on so many toes. Frankly, a problem as large as PRC bureaucratic corruption in the 2010s can't be tackled without centralizing power. [0] https://oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Yuen-Yuen-drugs-analogy.jpg https://oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Yuen-...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

85 points by baybal2 5y ago

It sounds like an incredible book. I will certainly check it out. It fits well with my experience of China well - a place where Guanxi (關係）trumps all else. People fear it, hate it, but also aspire it. It's also interesting that how unlikely this book is. I've been in the West for more than 20 years, but I don't plan on speaking ill of China at all. Kudos to the author. Another book that I really enjoy that seem to be of the same ilk: confession of an economic hitman

yuy910616 5y ago
I also want to add the book is currently has 20 ratings on Amazon and 4.9 stars - I'm curious if a large flood of of negative reviews quickly get posted haha, since it is now on both the Economist and Hackernews, which I think China closely monitors.
- stanislavb 5y ago
  I won’t be surprised at all to see a number of suspicious negative reviews.
  - danrocks 5y ago
    I live in Hong Kong. Many media outlets are closed monitored and relentlessly attacked with fake comments by the state apparatchiks. It's easy to spot, given: 1) Pervasive use of whataboutism; 2) Similar arguments in all comments, with a change or two in order or synonymous; 3) Use of Mandarin idioms translated to English, like "double confirm"; 4) Use of Mandarin sentence order translated to English, like "The USA last year in February in Afghanistan did ...". It's become a bit of game for me. I wish I enough knowledge of NLP to make this into a model and open source it as a wumao detector.
- divbzero 5y ago
  Monitoring the Economist makes sense, but I’d be surprised if Hacker News is closely monitored as well.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    I'm not so sure. He is very likely to be aware of HN: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/xi-jinpings-bookshelf-offers-a-glimpse-into-chinas-goal-of-becoming-ai-powerhouse https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/xi-jinpings-book...
    - divbzero 5y ago
      I suspect the Economist has far broader readership and influence than HN, but I like the idea of him browsing these threads like the rest of us. (President Xi, if you’re reading I’d love to see a comment from you as a “long-time lurker”. Or, even better, wow us by announcing an AI advancement here with a “Show HN” post.)
Hnrobert42 5y ago
I am not sure the comparison to Confessions of an Economic Hitman are positive. To me, that book was such unsubstantiated garbage that I left it in the airport where I bought it. It didn’t even make it to the plane.
- danrocks 5y ago
  The fact he wrote other 4 books with "new" confessions speaks volumes about his credibility. Peddler of nonsense.
unityByFreedom 5y ago
> It's also interesting that how unlikely this book is. "No Wall Too High" by Xu Hongci is another unlikely excellent story of a man escaping from communist China. He's imprisoned multiple times and ends up escaping to eventually marry a woman from Mongolia. Then in the Deng era he settles again in Shanghai and publishes his story in Chinese. Later this manuscript was discovered via his surviving wife, translated to English and published in 2017. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HMNETEA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HMNETEA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
est 5y ago
There's nothing special about Guanxi, it literally means "networking" of well-connected people. Unless I am missing something?
- dustintrex 5y ago
  Since China is a low-trust society, networking is far more important than in high-trust societies like most of the West (or Japan, for that matter). This is not unique to China, of course, but it does mean business, politics and even seemingly mundane things like healthcare and schools operate quite differently to what you might expect.
  - yuy910616 5y ago
    Yep, this is exactly it. It's not that networking is unique, is that such connection is often used to replace things like law, justice, or a simple queue. In my own experience, where I went to kindergarten was an outcome of who my grandma knew. Similarly, when I was sick and needed to see a doctor, I had to know someone who knew someone... Yes - it's similar in the west. But to say they're the same would be like saying 100M dash and marathon is the same sport.
  - est 5y ago
    > like healthcare and schools operate quite differently I'd argue the reason you don't see much Guanxi in the America is because the best healthcare or school are already run by the private sector.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
driveyouhome 5y ago
Confessions of an Economic Hitman was an eye opener for me. I was recommended this by my Econ professor and it left a lasting impression on me
- yuy910616 5y ago
  Funny - I read it for a history class. The book Banana was also quite interesting.

seibelj 5y ago

This is so incredibly obvious it’s amazing that anyone would think otherwise. Say what you want about western government but I’d much rather anger the US government as a US citizen than anger the Chinese government as a Chinese citizen. In China I’d be extremely concerned about my family arrested, arbitrary trials, forced medication with debilitating drugs, bullet in my head, etc. In America we may let the Sacklers buy their way out of prison but I prefer this to the fear, violence, illegitimacy, and madness of communism. You don’t appreciate the rule of law and equal justice until you are on the wrong side of power.

phyrex 5y ago
Tell that to Snowden and the other whistle blowers
- seibelj 5y ago
  In America we have people like Snowden, and other political prisoners like Ross Ulbricht. However reasonable people can debate about what they did. I would say both deserve to be free. In China the rule is Snowden. Everyone becomes Snowden if you speak any truth whatsoever to power.
  - fidesomnes 5y ago
    Ross Ulbricht is not a political prisoner and he would have been deleted by the Chinese by now.
  - jim-jim-jim 5y ago
    Does that distinction speak for the liberal charity of Western governments, or the utter uselessness of most dissent? Maybe the feds are chill with our social media posts and placard waggling because they know nothing will come out of it. But see how quickly they move when they're compelled to.
    - seibelj 5y ago
      Saying stuff on social media is not relevant to society. The only things relevant to society are groups of people. If you have millions of Twitter followers then saying something online matters because you can influence a large group. If your ideas start a movement and those people vote, then politicians will listen. You could also hire lobbyists and use financial resources to influence. The point is ideas without influence might as well never have existed. In China however they police and censor even individual social media posts, let alone allow influencers to gain millions of followers if they disagree with government policy. This is a deeply paranoid and illegitimate government that uses fear and violence to get its way. Very different from western democracy.

Kibae 5y ago

Archive Version: https://web.archive.org/web/20210912041701/https://www.economist.com/china/2021/09/11/a-new-book-looks-behind-xi-jinpings-anti-corruption-campaign https://web.archive.org/web/20210912041701/https://www.econo...

yellow_lead 5y ago
The archived version doesn't seem to have the paywall removed either. Anyone have another link? Edit- see one above
- onionisafruit 5y ago
  https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fchina%2F2021%2F09%2F11%2Fa-new-book-looks-behind-xi-jinpings-anti-corruption-campaign https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fch...

ent101 5y ago

https://archive.is/Ezm2a https://archive.is/Ezm2a

hildaman 5y ago

I read this book, it was truly jaw dropping to see the "Guanxi" system at work. From what I could tell, there is a whole system of unwritten rules about how different political factions could collect their "percentage", how these factions compete with each other and eliminate each other and so on. In a way, it is efficient because everyone who matters (i.e. princelings who control the CCP) has an incentive to "play the game". It is efficient because there are no nasty courts to slow you down, you don't have to deal with the lowest bidder nonsense - it all comes down to connections. The party credibility and the need hold power serves as a very powerful check on the system to prevent the system from becoming too blatantly corrupt and keeps the system going. But if you aren't someone who matters - i.e. a princeling, you will be forever on the outside looking in.

jacob_rezi 5y ago
Where can I purchase the book?
- sien 5y ago
  Red Roulette: An Insider's Story of Wealth, Power, Corruption, and Vengeance in Today's China Kindle Edition by Desmond Shum https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VJP821L/ref=dp-kindle-redirect https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VJP821L/ref=dp-kindle-redirect

helloworld 5y ago

I remember William F. Buckley, Jr. once saying something like, "The question is not whether an elite will rule, but which elite will rule."

jiggawatts 5y ago
The ruling group of people are by definition the "elite".
prpl 5y ago
I have Russian colleagues who I asked about Navalny they had the same view as on him (despite how much they dislike Putin). I was mildly surprised to hear that viewpoint.

guiambros 5y ago

I bought a copy after reading about it last week on HN [1]. Still halfway through it, but really enjoying the story. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448

perihelions 5y ago

Related thread (6 days / 288 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439448 ("Missing businesswoman urges ex-husband not to publish book critical of China (npr.org)")

BoHerfIVJrEsq 5y ago

Whenever some high-ranking CCP member is said to be doing something anti-corruption, it has to be understood that it really means anti-opposition. There's nothing going on about anti-corruption in the CCP; they're all utterly, irredeemably corrupt to the core, a big part of why someone even ascends to a high position in that organization. It's corruption beyond the wildest dreams of most people, like basements full of gold bars and such.

ddeville 5y ago

The actual book on Amazon: Red Roulette: An Insider's Story of Wealth, Power, Corruption, and Vengeance in Today's China https://www.amazon.com/dp/1982156155 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1982156155

dirtyid 5y ago

This book has fun anecdotes of elite graft, which is entertaining but not particularly useful for those interested in mechanisms of PRC corruption. Guanxi is just age old political patronage networks with Chinese characteristics, it's mundane not revelatory. The seminal book / academic for those interested in understanding PRC corruption systematically is Yuen Yuen Ang, China's Gilded Age: The Paradox of Economic Boom and Vast Corruption. The TLDR metaphor compares corruption to drugs, there are different types of corruption, with different effects. Chinese elite exchange-corruption discussed in the book is likened to steroids that boosts growth [0]. There's a reason why PRC is the only country where increased corruption is correlated to increased growth, as posited by Yukon Huan, World Bank director for China. But ultimately, drugs have harmful side effects that will eventually catch up to the body-politic, hence the anti-corruption drive. The useful takeaway from review: >In some aspects, Mr Shum’s book supports Mr Xi’s diagnosis of China’s ills. It describes sleaze that largely predates Mr Xi’s elevation as party chief in 2012. Since then, the Xi era has witnessed an anti-corruption drive that has seen more than 1.5m officials punished. Mr Xi himself grumbles about foot-dragging officials who put parochial interests first. ... >It argues that Mr Xi’s anti-corruption drive is as much a campaign to consolidate power as a sincere attempt to reform a rotten system. Note "sincere attempt". Xi's anti-corruption and power consolidation doesn't have to be mutually exclusive or contradictory. Xi didn't start with 1.5M political enemies, there's no reason to be so comprehensive except sincere need to tackle a widely recognized issue. There's good reason to want to consolidate power if Xi has to step on so many toes. Frankly, a problem as large as PRC bureaucratic corruption in the 2010s can't be tackled without centralizing power. [0] https://oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Yuen-Yuen-drugs-analogy.jpg https://oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Yuen-...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]