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>> Americans die more from car accidents, not because our fatality rate per mile driven is unusually high but because we simply drive so much more than people i

>> Americans die more from car accidents, not because our fatality rate per mile driven is unusually high but because we simply drive so much more than people in other countries. This is ridiculous. I've lived over a decade on both continents and it's not the number of miles/kilometers driven that matters, it's how terrible American drivers are. In the USA I see things every 15 minutes on the interstate that in Europe I would have called the police on. American culture seems to have this endless desire to grow, improve, escalate, promote, hustle. It permeates every single aspect of life, from home buying to what is put on the dinner table. Live fast, die young, I guess.

burnished 5y ago
I don't know how to tell you this, except to say that how terrible drivers are is summed up in the fatalities/mile statistic, and the number of miles is indeed important here. The way you are responding is completely counter but you don't provide any evidence. If what you said was true then the fatality/miles ratio would be much higher.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Here’s evidence: Amongst OECD countries, US is near the bottom. One EU country is slightly worse (Belgium), Czechs are twice as bad, and every other EU country is better, the biggest at least a third less, the best being well under half the US rate of fatalities / km: https://statlinks.oecdcode.org/752017011P1G002.xlsx https://statlinks.oecdcode.org/752017011P1G002.xlsx
  - burnished 5y ago
    Yes, that is shown in the study where the author makes a link for the claim. Figure 2 of [1] even shows this, and by eyeball alone it looks like it is closer to 4X more. The point I'm trying to make is that the people who published this graph, who cited the original study, are saying that the total number of fatalities appears to be more impacted by the total miles driven rather than the rate. I tried to dig up where the comparison of miles driven is made but was unable. In any case, the principle point is that while you are correct that American's have a higher fatality rate, if we are also driving significantly more then that could be a bigger problem. If we have 4X the rate, but 10X the miles, it would seem reasonable to say that the distance is the biggest factor. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4112220/#SD1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4112220/#SD1
bradknowles 5y ago
Uh, no. I lived in Belgium for almost eight years, and I drove in many European countries over the years. In every single country I drove in, they are much worse than the average American driver. In some places, like Paris and Rome, they are much, much worse. I managed to survive in Paris and Rome, but only barely. To this day, when driving in the US, I hold this knowledge in reserve, for those rare times when I do need to be more aggressive and “Drive Belgian”.
- sschueller 5y ago
  Take a drive down i95 or i495 in Massachusetts...
- Arnt 5y ago
  You barely survived, you say. Two weeks ago I was in Italy, in one of the big cities, on a very heavily loaded cargo bike, and I made a mistake in a roundabout. Almost took the wrong exit and corrected too late. No problem — a car driver I cut off seemed to know the mistake before I did and slowed down to make space for me just in case. If that's worse then the US, then the US must be heaven for cyclists.
mbrodersen 5y ago
What are you talking about? Drivers in Paris are scary. I prefer US drivers.
drcongo 5y ago
Have you ever been to Italy?
- alkonaut 5y ago
  Italian roads are mostly either tiny city streets or safe motorways. Deaths in vehicles I imagine are often on the intermediate roads where speed is high enough to kill but it’s not a motorway with on ramps and separators. For example, it’s hard to find a large multi-lane 4-way intersection in Italy where both roads are over 70km/h (45mph) , meaning there is a risk of a T collision if a driver goes through the red light. In the US this kind of intersection is pretty common, which surprises me when I drive there. The conversion of intersections to safer roundabouts also seems to be stuck at a low % in the US compared to Europe, Italy included.
  - drcongo 5y ago
    The design of roads and intersections is a great point. I've seen a number of them in the US that I found hard to believe had ever been through any kind of planning / design phase.
saargrin 5y ago
ive driven almost everywhere from nepal to zimbabwe ,and i gotta say american drivers are among the best behaved in the world you should try Rome or, dog forbid, New Delhi to see what bad driving looks like

burnished 5y ago

I don't know how to tell you this, except to say that how terrible drivers are is summed up in the fatalities/mile statistic, and the number of miles is indeed important here. The way you are responding is completely counter but you don't provide any evidence. If what you said was true then the fatality/miles ratio would be much higher.

Scoundreller 5y ago
Here’s evidence: Amongst OECD countries, US is near the bottom. One EU country is slightly worse (Belgium), Czechs are twice as bad, and every other EU country is better, the biggest at least a third less, the best being well under half the US rate of fatalities / km: https://statlinks.oecdcode.org/752017011P1G002.xlsx https://statlinks.oecdcode.org/752017011P1G002.xlsx
- burnished 5y ago
  Yes, that is shown in the study where the author makes a link for the claim. Figure 2 of [1] even shows this, and by eyeball alone it looks like it is closer to 4X more. The point I'm trying to make is that the people who published this graph, who cited the original study, are saying that the total number of fatalities appears to be more impacted by the total miles driven rather than the rate. I tried to dig up where the comparison of miles driven is made but was unable. In any case, the principle point is that while you are correct that American's have a higher fatality rate, if we are also driving significantly more then that could be a bigger problem. If we have 4X the rate, but 10X the miles, it would seem reasonable to say that the distance is the biggest factor. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4112220/#SD1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4112220/#SD1

bradknowles 5y ago

Uh, no. I lived in Belgium for almost eight years, and I drove in many European countries over the years. In every single country I drove in, they are much worse than the average American driver. In some places, like Paris and Rome, they are much, much worse. I managed to survive in Paris and Rome, but only barely. To this day, when driving in the US, I hold this knowledge in reserve, for those rare times when I do need to be more aggressive and “Drive Belgian”.

sschueller 5y ago
Take a drive down i95 or i495 in Massachusetts...
Arnt 5y ago
You barely survived, you say. Two weeks ago I was in Italy, in one of the big cities, on a very heavily loaded cargo bike, and I made a mistake in a roundabout. Almost took the wrong exit and corrected too late. No problem — a car driver I cut off seemed to know the mistake before I did and slowed down to make space for me just in case. If that's worse then the US, then the US must be heaven for cyclists.

mbrodersen 5y ago

What are you talking about? Drivers in Paris are scary. I prefer US drivers.

drcongo 5y ago

Have you ever been to Italy?

alkonaut 5y ago
Italian roads are mostly either tiny city streets or safe motorways. Deaths in vehicles I imagine are often on the intermediate roads where speed is high enough to kill but it’s not a motorway with on ramps and separators. For example, it’s hard to find a large multi-lane 4-way intersection in Italy where both roads are over 70km/h (45mph) , meaning there is a risk of a T collision if a driver goes through the red light. In the US this kind of intersection is pretty common, which surprises me when I drive there. The conversion of intersections to safer roundabouts also seems to be stuck at a low % in the US compared to Europe, Italy included.
- drcongo 5y ago
  The design of roads and intersections is a great point. I've seen a number of them in the US that I found hard to believe had ever been through any kind of planning / design phase.

saargrin 5y ago

ive driven almost everywhere from nepal to zimbabwe ,and i gotta say american drivers are among the best behaved in the world you should try Rome or, dog forbid, New Delhi to see what bad driving looks like