20 ms·

If we're going to run society this way, we're going to need much more difficult driving tests.

by rogerkirkness 5y ago

nkozyra 5y ago
Unless bad driving is an infectious airborne pathogen, I'm not following this analogy.
- dgfitz 5y ago
  Sure seems to be in the mid Atlantic region of the US. Also, I’m sure you get the point they were making, why be unreasonable about it?
  - Igelau 5y ago
    Is there a better name for the "playing dumb" style of argument?
- Smaug123 5y ago
  Come on - obviously bad driving is not primarily an infectious airborne pathogen. Bad driving is something you can unilaterally inflict on other people to permanently ruin their lives, as is an infectious airborne pathogen.
  - nkozyra 5y ago
    Well I certainly do think people should consider others when they get behind the wheel. Similarly I think people should consider the risk to others if they get this pathogen rather than just the risk to themselves.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      The problem is, 73% of drivers think they're above-average drivers[1]. So just as you can't know whether you're the one spreading COVID, you can't know if you're the bad driver. The solution is to get rid of cars as a primary mode of transport, and I really do think we should do that! 1: https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-overconfident-in-their-driving-skills-2018-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-overconfident-...
      - nkozyra 5y ago
        > So just as you can't know whether you're the one spreading COVID, you can't know if you're the bad the driver. This really isn't remotely analogous, particularly since you absolutely can know you're at risk of spreading COVID.
        Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        You added the "at risk" part, not me! :) Your version applies to cars too! By driving a car, you are at risk of causing a car crash!
        nkozyra 5y ago
        You said "you can't know" With COVID, you can. Pretty easily.
        Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        Sorry, I might not be understanding where you're going with this. I initially thought you meant "you can know you're at risk of spreading COVID, because everyone is at risk of spreading COVID." Certainly, anyone who receives a positive PCR test for COVID should quarantine ASAP. But if you're incubating COVID, but not infectious yet, the tests will return negative. A test only tells you whether you were infectious at the time of the test, so by the time you've seen the results, the information is already outdated.
        nkozyra 5y ago
        > I initially thought you meant "you can know you're at risk of spreading COVID, because everyone is at risk of spreading COVID." No. That wouldn't be a particularly useful statement. Dismissing the aggregate risks solely based on your own is short sighted.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    Indeed, driving lorries and buses requires an advanced license, with far more stringent testing, presumably because, like in the analogy, you could kill a lot more people behind the wheel of those?
- TakuYam 5y ago
  Bad driving begets bad driving. Some jackass cuts you up dangerously, your adrenaline is pumping and you then follow too close behind a third driver repeat ad nauseam
Icathian 5y ago
I understand the point you meant to make, but to be honest I've always found it horrifying whenever I have to sit in the DMV and see who all they allow to pilot steel missiles around. Our "licensing" for drivers in the US is abhorrent.
lovegoblin 5y ago
> we're going to need much more difficult driving tests. Sounds good to me. Let's require regular re-testing while we're at it.
- jasonladuke0311 5y ago
  While we are at it, mandatory breathalyzers in all cars, and all cell phones should be locked while traveling over 10 MPH. Let’s do this!
onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
Your analogy doesn't really make sense to me. It's not like we are aware that there are certain drivers that are 100x more likely to kill certain members of the population. And if we were aware that certain ways of driving made you 100x more likely to kill someone, people would AT LEAST be talking about banning them. Like, if teenagers could drive around drunk just find and not kill themselves or other teenagers somehow - they probably wouldn't care if only old, sick people ended up dead from their driving. People would probably make rules or at least talk about making rules to prevent this. But that's not how driving really works.
herbstein 5y ago
Sounds sensible to me. The US in general has super lax driving tests. Here in Denmark it's about 3 months of theoretical classes side-by-side with driving with a certified driving instructor. We also learn the basics of cars on a closed track, and later learn to drive in slippery conditions on the same closed tracks. The closed-track tests include being able to catch the car after pulling the handbrake in a turn while going 80 km/h (50 mph). Oh, and to actually get your license you also have to drive 45 minutes with a police official checking your every move.
- ThalesX 5y ago
  My friend living in Denmark, with a driver’s license from a corrupt country where literally anyone can get it, would render your whole 3-months intensive system useless. He is in fact driving, and could cause quite a crash, with all this amazing procedure you describe. We are a somewhat globalized civilization and the same as this security theatre about keeping airports open with countries with 2% vaccination rate can be said about driving.
  - rasz 5y ago
    But Mum, Kevin does drugs and he is fine, why cant I?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- pandaman 5y ago
  Why would you want to pull the handbrake in a turn while going 50 mph? And what is going to happen if you pull the handbrake at 50 mph other than the handbrake burning out? I have not had a car with a handbrake at all but I drove a few rentals with one and they drove normally even when I forgot to take them off the handbrake, the thing is just a lever with a wire, it cannot stop the car even on idle. Or do they use a rally car with a hydraulic handbrake that does something at that speed?
  - 5y ago

If we're going to run society this way, we're going to need much more difficult driving tests.

nkozyra 5y ago

Unless bad driving is an infectious airborne pathogen, I'm not following this analogy.

dgfitz 5y ago
Sure seems to be in the mid Atlantic region of the US. Also, I’m sure you get the point they were making, why be unreasonable about it?
- Igelau 5y ago
  Is there a better name for the "playing dumb" style of argument?
Smaug123 5y ago
Come on - obviously bad driving is not primarily an infectious airborne pathogen. Bad driving is something you can unilaterally inflict on other people to permanently ruin their lives, as is an infectious airborne pathogen.
- nkozyra 5y ago
  Well I certainly do think people should consider others when they get behind the wheel. Similarly I think people should consider the risk to others if they get this pathogen rather than just the risk to themselves.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    The problem is, 73% of drivers think they're above-average drivers[1]. So just as you can't know whether you're the one spreading COVID, you can't know if you're the bad driver. The solution is to get rid of cars as a primary mode of transport, and I really do think we should do that! 1: https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-overconfident-in-their-driving-skills-2018-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-overconfident-...
    - nkozyra 5y ago
      > So just as you can't know whether you're the one spreading COVID, you can't know if you're the bad the driver. This really isn't remotely analogous, particularly since you absolutely can know you're at risk of spreading COVID.
      - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        You added the "at risk" part, not me! :) Your version applies to cars too! By driving a car, you are at risk of causing a car crash!
        nkozyra 5y ago
        You said "you can't know" With COVID, you can. Pretty easily.
        Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        Sorry, I might not be understanding where you're going with this. I initially thought you meant "you can know you're at risk of spreading COVID, because everyone is at risk of spreading COVID." Certainly, anyone who receives a positive PCR test for COVID should quarantine ASAP. But if you're incubating COVID, but not infectious yet, the tests will return negative. A test only tells you whether you were infectious at the time of the test, so by the time you've seen the results, the information is already outdated.
        nkozyra 5y ago
        > I initially thought you meant "you can know you're at risk of spreading COVID, because everyone is at risk of spreading COVID." No. That wouldn't be a particularly useful statement. Dismissing the aggregate risks solely based on your own is short sighted.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Indeed, driving lorries and buses requires an advanced license, with far more stringent testing, presumably because, like in the analogy, you could kill a lot more people behind the wheel of those?
TakuYam 5y ago
Bad driving begets bad driving. Some jackass cuts you up dangerously, your adrenaline is pumping and you then follow too close behind a third driver repeat ad nauseam

Icathian 5y ago

I understand the point you meant to make, but to be honest I've always found it horrifying whenever I have to sit in the DMV and see who all they allow to pilot steel missiles around. Our "licensing" for drivers in the US is abhorrent.

lovegoblin 5y ago

> we're going to need much more difficult driving tests. Sounds good to me. Let's require regular re-testing while we're at it.

jasonladuke0311 5y ago
While we are at it, mandatory breathalyzers in all cars, and all cell phones should be locked while traveling over 10 MPH. Let’s do this!

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

Your analogy doesn't really make sense to me. It's not like we are aware that there are certain drivers that are 100x more likely to kill certain members of the population. And if we were aware that certain ways of driving made you 100x more likely to kill someone, people would AT LEAST be talking about banning them. Like, if teenagers could drive around drunk just find and not kill themselves or other teenagers somehow - they probably wouldn't care if only old, sick people ended up dead from their driving. People would probably make rules or at least talk about making rules to prevent this. But that's not how driving really works.

herbstein 5y ago

Sounds sensible to me. The US in general has super lax driving tests. Here in Denmark it's about 3 months of theoretical classes side-by-side with driving with a certified driving instructor. We also learn the basics of cars on a closed track, and later learn to drive in slippery conditions on the same closed tracks. The closed-track tests include being able to catch the car after pulling the handbrake in a turn while going 80 km/h (50 mph). Oh, and to actually get your license you also have to drive 45 minutes with a police official checking your every move.

ThalesX 5y ago
My friend living in Denmark, with a driver’s license from a corrupt country where literally anyone can get it, would render your whole 3-months intensive system useless. He is in fact driving, and could cause quite a crash, with all this amazing procedure you describe. We are a somewhat globalized civilization and the same as this security theatre about keeping airports open with countries with 2% vaccination rate can be said about driving.
- rasz 5y ago
  But Mum, Kevin does drugs and he is fine, why cant I?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
pandaman 5y ago
Why would you want to pull the handbrake in a turn while going 50 mph? And what is going to happen if you pull the handbrake at 50 mph other than the handbrake burning out? I have not had a car with a handbrake at all but I drove a few rentals with one and they drove normally even when I forgot to take them off the handbrake, the thing is just a lever with a wire, it cannot stop the car even on idle. Or do they use a rally car with a hydraulic handbrake that does something at that speed?
- 5y ago