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I think we are long past "short" anything related to COVID. It is now clearly endemic and will persist indefinitely. People need to make their own decisions on

by paul_f 5y ago

I think we are long past "short" anything related to COVID. It is now clearly endemic and will persist indefinitely. People need to make their own decisions on how to protect themselves and get on with their lives.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
So should we invest in vastly increasing hospital staffing and facilities because the current ICU loads are the new normal?
- kryogen1c 5y ago
  why not? it seems absurd to think that at no point in the future will there be infectious endemic diseases. hospital infrastructure hardly seems like the wrong thing to overbuild.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    We already spend a lot on healthcare as it is, more so here in the USA than in countries with universal healthcare. Should we go from spending 17.7% of our GDP to 30%? Just because some people aren’t interested getting a vaccine?
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      The USA doesn't spend the amount it does on healthcare out of necessity, it does it because of graft. If we're willing to spend twice as much as everyone else for no reason, why not four times as much?
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        So? If healthcare needs rise, what is to assume that the graft won’t rise with it? The same people against vaccines are also against universal healthcare (at least in the states), so these problems will just keep being compounded.
- dia80 5y ago
  ICU load is now much lower for a given level of cases and barring new variants it will likely decrease further with boaster shots and more people recovered from infection and possible new therapeutics. Moderately increasing ICU capacity would be expensive but not vastly so. See "people in ventilator beds" in the link https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    > barring new variants I didn't know this was an option. How do we go about doing it?
    - bidirectional 5y ago
      That's not what barring means. The statement is contingent on there not being new variants.
      - toyg 5y ago
        Which is, let's face it, extremely unlikely - and made even more so by the "laissez-faire" attitude.
- anthomtb 5y ago
  If only there were some far less costly preventative measures that could be taken to limit COVID hospitalizations instead of building more ICU capacity…
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Y'all had 1.6 years to do this. And no, the present ICU loads are not gonna be "the new normal". Covid is here forever. We knew this way, way back in March of 2020. Only now are people finally getting the message. Life is short. We cannot play this game anymore. The time to go back to actual, 2019 pre pandemic normal is today.
  - drewrv 5y ago
    I take your argument as “covid will be around forever so we should act like it doesn’t exist” which is nonsensical to me. I’m not sure I can come up with a more charitable interpretation: sometimes things change and societies need to adapt.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      There is nothing unique or special about covid that requires society to adapt to some dystopian "new normal". There is nothing but fear that stops society from returning back to what life was like in 2019. Many places are completely over this already.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        > Many places are completely over this already. For example?
        dkdk8283 5y ago
        Florida has been open for awhile and Gov DeSantis is actively fighting measures that would require vaccine passports etc.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Florida ICUs are full, has a peak COVID death rate right now, and there isn't much end in sight. https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/09/florida-adds-another-1296-covid-19-deaths-12k-more-cases/ https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/09/florida-adds... How is that "a place where everything has returned to normal"? Ya, some people are ignoring COVID, but it isn't ignoring them.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Hell yeah we should have done it 20 years ago but now is the second best time.

by paul_f 5y ago

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

So should we invest in vastly increasing hospital staffing and facilities because the current ICU loads are the new normal?

kryogen1c 5y ago
why not? it seems absurd to think that at no point in the future will there be infectious endemic diseases. hospital infrastructure hardly seems like the wrong thing to overbuild.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  We already spend a lot on healthcare as it is, more so here in the USA than in countries with universal healthcare. Should we go from spending 17.7% of our GDP to 30%? Just because some people aren’t interested getting a vaccine?
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    The USA doesn't spend the amount it does on healthcare out of necessity, it does it because of graft. If we're willing to spend twice as much as everyone else for no reason, why not four times as much?
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      So? If healthcare needs rise, what is to assume that the graft won’t rise with it? The same people against vaccines are also against universal healthcare (at least in the states), so these problems will just keep being compounded.
dia80 5y ago
ICU load is now much lower for a given level of cases and barring new variants it will likely decrease further with boaster shots and more people recovered from infection and possible new therapeutics. Moderately increasing ICU capacity would be expensive but not vastly so. See "people in ventilator beds" in the link https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > barring new variants I didn't know this was an option. How do we go about doing it?
  - bidirectional 5y ago
    That's not what barring means. The statement is contingent on there not being new variants.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Which is, let's face it, extremely unlikely - and made even more so by the "laissez-faire" attitude.
anthomtb 5y ago
If only there were some far less costly preventative measures that could be taken to limit COVID hospitalizations instead of building more ICU capacity…
spookthesunset 5y ago
Y'all had 1.6 years to do this. And no, the present ICU loads are not gonna be "the new normal". Covid is here forever. We knew this way, way back in March of 2020. Only now are people finally getting the message. Life is short. We cannot play this game anymore. The time to go back to actual, 2019 pre pandemic normal is today.
- drewrv 5y ago
  I take your argument as “covid will be around forever so we should act like it doesn’t exist” which is nonsensical to me. I’m not sure I can come up with a more charitable interpretation: sometimes things change and societies need to adapt.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    There is nothing unique or special about covid that requires society to adapt to some dystopian "new normal". There is nothing but fear that stops society from returning back to what life was like in 2019. Many places are completely over this already.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > Many places are completely over this already. For example?
      - dkdk8283 5y ago
        Florida has been open for awhile and Gov DeSantis is actively fighting measures that would require vaccine passports etc.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Florida ICUs are full, has a peak COVID death rate right now, and there isn't much end in sight. https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/09/florida-adds-another-1296-covid-19-deaths-12k-more-cases/ https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/09/florida-adds... How is that "a place where everything has returned to normal"? Ya, some people are ignoring COVID, but it isn't ignoring them.
rdtwo 5y ago
Hell yeah we should have done it 20 years ago but now is the second best time.