5 ms·

How Plan B found the Droid I was looking for

94 points by abraham 15y ago

edtechdev 15y ago
case-sensitivity, gotta love it
mwexler 15y ago
I speak from total ignorance; I've just read a few of these stories, so take my comments in that context, please. It seems to me that these "locate your device" companies would all do themselves a world of good if they found a way to work with local police departments to allow verification of theft and get past the "we can't help you, no proof of a crime or evidence" walls. If average person calls the police to report the crime, they get rebuffed (and we've seen this multiple times with stories here on HN; they all start by "the cops ignored me, so I tweeted or posted for help"). If there were a verification process where you report the device missing with a possible location, and the cops can easily verify that you do own the device, it has been reported stolen, and the location is in their jurisdiction, it would seem like an easy win for a nearby car to visit location, question suspect, and arrest if necessary, adding a solved crime to their credit. Otherwise, we continue to rely on friends and forum-mates to stalk a thief until we can convice someone, anyone in authority, to help out. This seems dangerous and only works for those with reasonably large, friendly, and distributed followers/social networks I look forward to one of these location companies actually hiring an ex-cop as a "liason" and working out processes to get law enforcement engaged quickly to grab a suspect when much of the work (evidence of theft, location of stolen property, evidence of locations) has already been done. Again, I am not a lawyer, and don't know much about this stuff, just what I've read online, so feel free to correct me if this is really impossible in the US.
- arthurgibson 15y ago
  No rudeness intended, but "Possession is nine-tenths of the law". I don't think police officers stalking a cabby for a phone you left in a cab is worth it to the general public.
  - mwexler 15y ago
    You raise 3 points: 1) I would think that a cabby keeping a phone that they did not purchase or have reason to believe was unintentionally left in their vehicle, and trying to convert it for their own use or selling it, is called theft, not possession. And I am not a lawyer, but I think theft overrules the "9/10ths" guideline, which would appear to be in cases where there is equal or no claim to the property. So I don't think that applies. Now, a different question is: 2) is the size of the theft of import in deciding whether or not it should be handled by the police? Well, if the property is of minimal value (they stole my pencil!), I guess not... but a phone valued at $300 is probably something they should follow up on. That being said, I suspect there are actual guidelines that police follow in these cases, and I don't know them. Finally, 3) should the police officers "stalk" the cabbie? No, not unless they are investigating or have probable cause for an arrest. But once the potential thief is located, stationary, and in their jurisdiction/locale, is there not a reason for police to intervene if the effort on their part is relatively small? Yes, there's a cost to everything, but the GPS tool would have done a ton to reduce the work/cost in this case. Again, IANAL, etc.
    - jackpirate 15y ago
      How on earth could the cabbie return it to you? If you left a $100 bill, it's his. No matter how saintly his desire to give it back, there is no way for him to do so, so he may as well spend it. [Edit: My point is that while I can track the device, the cabbie has no way of tracking me. How could he return the phone to me in this situation?]
      - mwexler 15y ago
        Umm... this whole conversation is about GPS tracked devices, almost all of which have strongly linked identifiers. If it's money, then it is a lot harder... not that we were even talking about that, but true statement. A harder question becomes: I just bought the phone, and I left it in the cab. I can't track it's location, but I kept the cabbie ID number. How can I prove the boxed phone is mine? It's not activated, and the store didn't write down the serial number. At that point, like the previous poster said, it's probably "posession rules, losers drool" and I would lose my phone. Also not entirely germane to the conversation, but interesting thought.
ck2 15y ago
turned [to] the San Diego Police Department, Southeastern Division, which has its headquarters less than a mile away from the address, but it was unwilling to assist in any capacity Right there - huge WTF. Bet they were too busy filling in pension plan forms.
- TobbenTM 15y ago
  I do agree that it is confusing and wrong of the police to just ignore it, but what can they do? What evidence does the police have that would indicate that this is not his (the taxi drivers) phone?
  - ck2 15y ago
    Serial number? IMEI? Calling the cellphone company to see who pays the bills? They have endless resources when they are motivated - if an off-duty cop or their spouse had been pickpocketed this would have been resolved in 30 minutes flat.
  - jellicle 15y ago
    I say it's my phone. Officer says to me, prove it. I enter the phone password, point out that it's full of photos of my children and wife, that the "Home" number calls my house, etc. etc. Phones are probably one of the MOST identifiable items that you own.
  - matwood 15y ago
    So you mean a he said/he said case? I'm pretty sure they investigate those all the time (most assaults would be this way) and have even less potential evidence than they would with a phone.
- watty 15y ago
  It isn't worth the time or tax dollars to fully investigate a single cell phone.
gcb 15y ago
and no discussion about how that thing works and how it can be used for unthought, cooler, ways? i thought this was the difference of news here and at reddit can a store make a passive-checkin once you fill a form with your phone number?
- rradu 15y ago
  You can install applications on Android devices by logging in through the web interface and buying them. The next time the Android Market app syncs with the service it will see it has been bought and will download automatically. So not just anyone can install things to your phone, just whoever has access to the Google account associated with your phone.
  - gcb 15y ago
    nice. and one search away: http://jon.oberheide.org/blog/2010/06/25/remote-kill-and-install-on-google-android/ http://jon.oberheide.org/blog/2010/06/25/remote-kill-and-ins...
    - gcb 15y ago
      this + coffee shop wifi (w/ ssl mitm) = instant sign in for anyone entering the shop with auto connect to their wifi.. qed.
dave1619 15y ago
Nice story. I hope these kinds of stories scare people so that they don't pick up and steal phones laying around.
baconhigh 15y ago
A battery life of 16 hours!! I WANT HIS PHONE TOO
- code_duck 15y ago
  Yeah, really. I have a Droid 2 that will die overnight if I leave it on, starting with anything else than 80% power.

94 points by abraham 15y ago

case-sensitivity, gotta love it

I speak from total ignorance; I've just read a few of these stories, so take my comments in that context, please. It seems to me that these "locate your device" companies would all do themselves a world of good if they found a way to work with local police departments to allow verification of theft and get past the "we can't help you, no proof of a crime or evidence" walls. If average person calls the police to report the crime, they get rebuffed (and we've seen this multiple times with stories here on HN; they all start by "the cops ignored me, so I tweeted or posted for help"). If there were a verification process where you report the device missing with a possible location, and the cops can easily verify that you do own the device, it has been reported stolen, and the location is in their jurisdiction, it would seem like an easy win for a nearby car to visit location, question suspect, and arrest if necessary, adding a solved crime to their credit. Otherwise, we continue to rely on friends and forum-mates to stalk a thief until we can convice someone, anyone in authority, to help out. This seems dangerous and only works for those with reasonably large, friendly, and distributed followers/social networks I look forward to one of these location companies actually hiring an ex-cop as a "liason" and working out processes to get law enforcement engaged quickly to grab a suspect when much of the work (evidence of theft, location of stolen property, evidence of locations) has already been done. Again, I am not a lawyer, and don't know much about this stuff, just what I've read online, so feel free to correct me if this is really impossible in the US.

arthurgibson 15y ago
No rudeness intended, but "Possession is nine-tenths of the law". I don't think police officers stalking a cabby for a phone you left in a cab is worth it to the general public.
- mwexler 15y ago
  You raise 3 points: 1) I would think that a cabby keeping a phone that they did not purchase or have reason to believe was unintentionally left in their vehicle, and trying to convert it for their own use or selling it, is called theft, not possession. And I am not a lawyer, but I think theft overrules the "9/10ths" guideline, which would appear to be in cases where there is equal or no claim to the property. So I don't think that applies. Now, a different question is: 2) is the size of the theft of import in deciding whether or not it should be handled by the police? Well, if the property is of minimal value (they stole my pencil!), I guess not... but a phone valued at $300 is probably something they should follow up on. That being said, I suspect there are actual guidelines that police follow in these cases, and I don't know them. Finally, 3) should the police officers "stalk" the cabbie? No, not unless they are investigating or have probable cause for an arrest. But once the potential thief is located, stationary, and in their jurisdiction/locale, is there not a reason for police to intervene if the effort on their part is relatively small? Yes, there's a cost to everything, but the GPS tool would have done a ton to reduce the work/cost in this case. Again, IANAL, etc.
  - jackpirate 15y ago
    How on earth could the cabbie return it to you? If you left a $100 bill, it's his. No matter how saintly his desire to give it back, there is no way for him to do so, so he may as well spend it. [Edit: My point is that while I can track the device, the cabbie has no way of tracking me. How could he return the phone to me in this situation?]
    - mwexler 15y ago
      Umm... this whole conversation is about GPS tracked devices, almost all of which have strongly linked identifiers. If it's money, then it is a lot harder... not that we were even talking about that, but true statement. A harder question becomes: I just bought the phone, and I left it in the cab. I can't track it's location, but I kept the cabbie ID number. How can I prove the boxed phone is mine? It's not activated, and the store didn't write down the serial number. At that point, like the previous poster said, it's probably "posession rules, losers drool" and I would lose my phone. Also not entirely germane to the conversation, but interesting thought.

ck2 15y ago

turned [to] the San Diego Police Department, Southeastern Division, which has its headquarters less than a mile away from the address, but it was unwilling to assist in any capacity Right there - huge WTF. Bet they were too busy filling in pension plan forms.

TobbenTM 15y ago
I do agree that it is confusing and wrong of the police to just ignore it, but what can they do? What evidence does the police have that would indicate that this is not his (the taxi drivers) phone?
- ck2 15y ago
  Serial number? IMEI? Calling the cellphone company to see who pays the bills? They have endless resources when they are motivated - if an off-duty cop or their spouse had been pickpocketed this would have been resolved in 30 minutes flat.
- jellicle 15y ago
  I say it's my phone. Officer says to me, prove it. I enter the phone password, point out that it's full of photos of my children and wife, that the "Home" number calls my house, etc. etc. Phones are probably one of the MOST identifiable items that you own.
- matwood 15y ago
  So you mean a he said/he said case? I'm pretty sure they investigate those all the time (most assaults would be this way) and have even less potential evidence than they would with a phone.
watty 15y ago
It isn't worth the time or tax dollars to fully investigate a single cell phone.

gcb 15y ago

and no discussion about how that thing works and how it can be used for unthought, cooler, ways? i thought this was the difference of news here and at reddit can a store make a passive-checkin once you fill a form with your phone number?

rradu 15y ago
You can install applications on Android devices by logging in through the web interface and buying them. The next time the Android Market app syncs with the service it will see it has been bought and will download automatically. So not just anyone can install things to your phone, just whoever has access to the Google account associated with your phone.
- gcb 15y ago
  nice. and one search away: http://jon.oberheide.org/blog/2010/06/25/remote-kill-and-install-on-google-android/ http://jon.oberheide.org/blog/2010/06/25/remote-kill-and-ins...
  - gcb 15y ago
    this + coffee shop wifi (w/ ssl mitm) = instant sign in for anyone entering the shop with auto connect to their wifi.. qed.

dave1619 15y ago

Nice story. I hope these kinds of stories scare people so that they don't pick up and steal phones laying around.

baconhigh 15y ago

A battery life of 16 hours!! I WANT HIS PHONE TOO

code_duck 15y ago
Yeah, really. I have a Droid 2 that will die overnight if I leave it on, starting with anything else than 80% power.