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I've been thinking along the same lines, it seems like logic + ML would complement each other well. Acquiring trustworthy labeled data is "THE" problem in ML, a

I've been thinking along the same lines, it seems like logic + ML would complement each other well. Acquiring trustworthy labeled data is "THE" problem in ML, and figuring out which predicates to string together is "THE" problem in logic programming, seems like a perfect match. A logic program can produce a practically infinite number of perfectly consistent test cases for the ML model to learn from, and the ML model can predict which problem should be solved. I'd like to see a conversational interface that combines these two systems, ML generates logic statements and observes the results, repeat. That might help to keep it from going off the rails like a long GPT-3 session tends to do.

westurner 5y ago
AutoML is RL? The entire exercise of publishing and peer review is an exercise in cybernetics? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_logic_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_logic_network : > The basic goal of PLN is to provide reasonably accurate probabilistic inference in a way that is compatible with both term logic and predicate logic, and scales up to operate in real time on large dynamic knowledge bases. > The goal underlying the theoretical development of PLN has been the creation of practical software systems carrying out complex, useful inferences based on uncertain knowledge and drawing uncertain conclusions. PLN has been designed to allow basic probabilistic inference to interact with other kinds of inference such as intensional inference, fuzzy inference, and higher-order inference using quantifiers, variables, and combinators, and be a more convenient approach than Bayesian networks (or other conventional approaches) for the purpose of interfacing basic probabilistic inference with these other sorts of inference. In addition, the inference rules are formulated in such a way as to avoid the paradoxes of Dempster–Shafer theory. Has anybody already taught / reinforced an OpenCog [PLN, MOSES] AtomSpace hypergraph agent to do Linked Data prep and also convex optimization with AutoML and better than grid search so gradients? Perhaps teaching users to bias analyses with e.g. Yellowbrick and the sklearn APIs would be a good curriculum traversal? opening/baselines "Logging and vizualizing learning curves and other training metrics" https://github.com/openai/baselines#logging-and-vizualizing-learning-curves-and-other-training-metrics https://github.com/openai/baselines#logging-and-vizualizing-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero There's probably an awesome-automl by now? Again, the sklearn interfaces. TIL that SymPy supports NumPy, PyTorch, and TensorFlow [Quantum; TFQ?]; and with a Computer Algebra System something for mutating the AST may not be necessary for symbolic expression trees without human-readable comments or symbol names? Lean mathlib: https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib , and then reasoning about concurrent / distributed systems (with side channels in actual physical component space) with e.g. TLA+. There are new UUID formats that are timestamp-sortable; for when blockchain cryptographic hashes aren't enough entropy. "New UUID Formats – IETF Draft" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28088213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28088213 ... You can host online ML algos through SingularityNet, which also does PayPal now for the RL.
- westurner 5y ago
  Our visual / auditory biological neural networks do appear to be hierarchical and relatively highly plastic as well. If you're planning to mutate, crossover, and select expression trees, you'll need a survival function (~cost function) in order to reinforce; RL. Blockchains cost immutable data storage with data integrity protections by the byte. Smart contracts cost CPU usage with costed opcodes. eWASM (Ethereum WebAssembly) has costed opcodes for redundantly-executed smart contracts (that execute on n nodes of a shard) https://ewasm.readthedocs.io/en/mkdocs/determining_wasm_gas_costs/#gas-costs-of-individual-instructions https://ewasm.readthedocs.io/en/mkdocs/determining_wasm_gas_... AFAIU, while there are DLTs that cost CPU, RAM, and Data storage between points in spacetime, none yet incentivize energy efficiency by varying costs depending upon whether the instructions execute on a FPGA, ASIC, CPU, GPU, TPU, or QPU? To be 200% green - to put a 200% green footer with search-discoverable RDFa on your site - I think you need PPAs and all directly sourced clean energy. (Energy efficiency is very relevant to ML/AI/AGI, because while it may be the case that the dumb universal function approximator will eventually find a better solution, "just leave it on all night/month/K12+postdoc" in parallel is a very expensive proposition with no apparent oracle; and then to ethically filter solutions still costs at least one human)
- westurner 5y ago
  > Perhaps teaching users to bias analyses with e.g. Yellowbrick and the sklearn APIs would be a good curriculum traversal? Yellowbrick > Third Party Estimaters: (yellowbrick.contrib.wrapper: https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/api/contrib/wrapper.html https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/api/contrib/wrapper.html From https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/quickstart.html#using-yellowbrick https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/quickstart.html#using-ye... : > The Yellowbrick API is specifically designed to play nicely with scikit-learn. The primary interface is therefore a Visualizer – an object that learns from data to produce a visualization. Visualizers are scikit-learn Estimator objects and have a similar interface along with methods for drawing. In order to use visualizers, you simply use the same workflow as with a scikit-learn model, import the visualizer, instantiate it, call the visualizer’s fit() method, then in order to render the visualization, call the visualizer’s show() method. > For example, there are several visualizers that act as transformers, used to perform feature analysis prior to fitting a model. The following example visualizes a high-dimensional data set with parallel coordinates: from yellowbrick.features import ParallelCoordinates visualizer = ParallelCoordinates() visualizer.fit_transform(X, y) visualizer.show() > As you can see, the workflow is very similar to using a scikit-learn transformer, and visualizers are intended to be integrated along with scikit-learn utilities. Arguments that change how the visualization is drawn can be passed into the visualizer upon instantiation, similarly to how hyperparameters are included with scikit-learn models. IIRC, some automl tools - which test various combinations of, stacks of, ensembles of e.g. Estimators - do test hierarchical ensembles? Are those 'piecewise' and ultimately not the unified theory we were looking for here either (but often a good enough, fast enough, sufficient approximate solution with a sufficiently low error term)? /? hierarchical automl "sklearn" site:github.com : https://www.google.com/search?q=hierarchical+automl+%22sklearn%22+site%3Agithub.com https://www.google.com/search?q=hierarchical+automl+%22sklea...
nextos 5y ago
This is already starting to happen, albeit quite slowly. I think it will gain a lot of momentum and it will lead to very interesting progress in AI. For example, deep functions + probabilistic models yield things such as deep markov models, which are interpretable and can represent really complex distributions such as music. Deep functions can also be used during sampling to generate sophisticated proposals in problems where standard algorithms struggle to navigate the posterior. There are also equivalent ideas being explored in RL, such as the OP.
- medo-bear 5y ago
  can you name some references please? also, what do you mean by deep functions?
  - nextos 5y ago
    Apologies, for the late reply. By deep functions I simply meant small deep networks embedded in probabilistic models as a drop-in replacement for probability distributions, like e.g. a neuralHMM: https://pyro.ai/examples/hmm_funsor.html https://pyro.ai/examples/hmm_funsor.html Aside from looking into Pyro docs and all references, another good entry point is this publication: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1610.05735.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1610.05735.pdf. Here the authors show how to use deep networks to aid sampling of complex probabilistic models.
    - medo-bear 5y ago
      Thank you. I didn't notice that you replied. These links are quite helpful. I think that eventually AI will start to incorporate all the new ML stuff into the old symbolic stuff and I think probabilistic models are a good way to link the two
amelius 5y ago
> Acquiring trustworthy labeled data is "THE" problem in ML, and figuring out which predicates to string together is "THE" problem in logic programming, seems like a perfect match. Can't this be generalized into using the ML to prune a search tree, and using the logic to generate the search tree? And didn't we already successfully try this, see e.g. AlphaGo?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

westurner 5y ago

AutoML is RL? The entire exercise of publishing and peer review is an exercise in cybernetics? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_logic_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_logic_network : > The basic goal of PLN is to provide reasonably accurate probabilistic inference in a way that is compatible with both term logic and predicate logic, and scales up to operate in real time on large dynamic knowledge bases. > The goal underlying the theoretical development of PLN has been the creation of practical software systems carrying out complex, useful inferences based on uncertain knowledge and drawing uncertain conclusions. PLN has been designed to allow basic probabilistic inference to interact with other kinds of inference such as intensional inference, fuzzy inference, and higher-order inference using quantifiers, variables, and combinators, and be a more convenient approach than Bayesian networks (or other conventional approaches) for the purpose of interfacing basic probabilistic inference with these other sorts of inference. In addition, the inference rules are formulated in such a way as to avoid the paradoxes of Dempster–Shafer theory. Has anybody already taught / reinforced an OpenCog [PLN, MOSES] AtomSpace hypergraph agent to do Linked Data prep and also convex optimization with AutoML and better than grid search so gradients? Perhaps teaching users to bias analyses with e.g. Yellowbrick and the sklearn APIs would be a good curriculum traversal? opening/baselines "Logging and vizualizing learning curves and other training metrics" https://github.com/openai/baselines#logging-and-vizualizing-learning-curves-and-other-training-metrics https://github.com/openai/baselines#logging-and-vizualizing-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero There's probably an awesome-automl by now? Again, the sklearn interfaces. TIL that SymPy supports NumPy, PyTorch, and TensorFlow [Quantum; TFQ?]; and with a Computer Algebra System something for mutating the AST may not be necessary for symbolic expression trees without human-readable comments or symbol names? Lean mathlib: https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib , and then reasoning about concurrent / distributed systems (with side channels in actual physical component space) with e.g. TLA+. There are new UUID formats that are timestamp-sortable; for when blockchain cryptographic hashes aren't enough entropy. "New UUID Formats – IETF Draft" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28088213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28088213 ... You can host online ML algos through SingularityNet, which also does PayPal now for the RL.

westurner 5y ago
Our visual / auditory biological neural networks do appear to be hierarchical and relatively highly plastic as well. If you're planning to mutate, crossover, and select expression trees, you'll need a survival function (~cost function) in order to reinforce; RL. Blockchains cost immutable data storage with data integrity protections by the byte. Smart contracts cost CPU usage with costed opcodes. eWASM (Ethereum WebAssembly) has costed opcodes for redundantly-executed smart contracts (that execute on n nodes of a shard) https://ewasm.readthedocs.io/en/mkdocs/determining_wasm_gas_costs/#gas-costs-of-individual-instructions https://ewasm.readthedocs.io/en/mkdocs/determining_wasm_gas_... AFAIU, while there are DLTs that cost CPU, RAM, and Data storage between points in spacetime, none yet incentivize energy efficiency by varying costs depending upon whether the instructions execute on a FPGA, ASIC, CPU, GPU, TPU, or QPU? To be 200% green - to put a 200% green footer with search-discoverable RDFa on your site - I think you need PPAs and all directly sourced clean energy. (Energy efficiency is very relevant to ML/AI/AGI, because while it may be the case that the dumb universal function approximator will eventually find a better solution, "just leave it on all night/month/K12+postdoc" in parallel is a very expensive proposition with no apparent oracle; and then to ethically filter solutions still costs at least one human)
westurner 5y ago
> Perhaps teaching users to bias analyses with e.g. Yellowbrick and the sklearn APIs would be a good curriculum traversal? Yellowbrick > Third Party Estimaters: (yellowbrick.contrib.wrapper: https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/api/contrib/wrapper.html https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/api/contrib/wrapper.html From https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/quickstart.html#using-yellowbrick https://www.scikit-yb.org/en/latest/quickstart.html#using-ye... : > The Yellowbrick API is specifically designed to play nicely with scikit-learn. The primary interface is therefore a Visualizer – an object that learns from data to produce a visualization. Visualizers are scikit-learn Estimator objects and have a similar interface along with methods for drawing. In order to use visualizers, you simply use the same workflow as with a scikit-learn model, import the visualizer, instantiate it, call the visualizer’s fit() method, then in order to render the visualization, call the visualizer’s show() method. > For example, there are several visualizers that act as transformers, used to perform feature analysis prior to fitting a model. The following example visualizes a high-dimensional data set with parallel coordinates: from yellowbrick.features import ParallelCoordinates visualizer = ParallelCoordinates() visualizer.fit_transform(X, y) visualizer.show() > As you can see, the workflow is very similar to using a scikit-learn transformer, and visualizers are intended to be integrated along with scikit-learn utilities. Arguments that change how the visualization is drawn can be passed into the visualizer upon instantiation, similarly to how hyperparameters are included with scikit-learn models. IIRC, some automl tools - which test various combinations of, stacks of, ensembles of e.g. Estimators - do test hierarchical ensembles? Are those 'piecewise' and ultimately not the unified theory we were looking for here either (but often a good enough, fast enough, sufficient approximate solution with a sufficiently low error term)? /? hierarchical automl "sklearn" site:github.com : https://www.google.com/search?q=hierarchical+automl+%22sklearn%22+site%3Agithub.com https://www.google.com/search?q=hierarchical+automl+%22sklea...

nextos 5y ago

This is already starting to happen, albeit quite slowly. I think it will gain a lot of momentum and it will lead to very interesting progress in AI. For example, deep functions + probabilistic models yield things such as deep markov models, which are interpretable and can represent really complex distributions such as music. Deep functions can also be used during sampling to generate sophisticated proposals in problems where standard algorithms struggle to navigate the posterior. There are also equivalent ideas being explored in RL, such as the OP.

medo-bear 5y ago
can you name some references please? also, what do you mean by deep functions?
- nextos 5y ago
  Apologies, for the late reply. By deep functions I simply meant small deep networks embedded in probabilistic models as a drop-in replacement for probability distributions, like e.g. a neuralHMM: https://pyro.ai/examples/hmm_funsor.html https://pyro.ai/examples/hmm_funsor.html Aside from looking into Pyro docs and all references, another good entry point is this publication: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1610.05735.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1610.05735.pdf. Here the authors show how to use deep networks to aid sampling of complex probabilistic models.
  - medo-bear 5y ago
    Thank you. I didn't notice that you replied. These links are quite helpful. I think that eventually AI will start to incorporate all the new ML stuff into the old symbolic stuff and I think probabilistic models are a good way to link the two

amelius 5y ago

> Acquiring trustworthy labeled data is "THE" problem in ML, and figuring out which predicates to string together is "THE" problem in logic programming, seems like a perfect match. Can't this be generalized into using the ML to prune a search tree, and using the logic to generate the search tree? And didn't we already successfully try this, see e.g. AlphaGo?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]