4 ms·

I think your first link [freepascal.org] speaks volumes. I clicked on it and was taken to a page which looked like it was stuck in a 1990s timewarp. Opened it

I think your first link [freepascal.org] speaks volumes. I clicked on it and was taken to a page which looked like it was stuck in a 1990s timewarp. Opened it on my phone and, as expected, no concessions to mobile layout at all. Just that massive page of text rendered in microscopic size on my phone screen. Back to the site on my laptop and I look for the two things I want to see up front when deciding whether I'm interested in dipping a toe into a new programming language: 1: What are its selling points? 2: What does the syntax look like. Nothing at all there to give me any info. Just a load of text outlining the differences between the latest point versions. So I click on 'Documentation' thinking there might be a 'Quickstart Guide' or something of that ilk there, that will give me some of the info I want. Nope. Just various in-depth User Guides as downloadable PDFs or HTML versions. OK. Let's try the HTML version. I click on that and the entire screen fills up with a massive index of all the chapters and sub-sections in the guide. None of them called anything remotely welcoming like 'Start Here' or 'Quickstart' Oh, and not that it's strictly necessary. But the only visuals I saw on my abortive mission onto that website were a tiny badly cut-out clipart picture of a cheetah [the project icon?] at the top of the front page and a couple of other nondescript icons at the bottom, one of which was a broken link. Pascal may be the best programming language in the world and 'fashion' may have played some part in its alleged demise. But some people [and projects!] don't exactly do themselves any favours by actually making an effort to sell themselves, do they?

oefrha 5y ago
> I clicked on it and was taken to a page which looked like it was stuck in a 1990s timewarp. Opened it on my phone and, as expected, no concessions to mobile layout at all. Just that massive page of text rendered in microscopic size on my phone screen. Sure, maybe check https://cppreference.com/ https://cppreference.com/ on your phone too. C++ is a popular language and has modern updates all the time, as you can see on that very site, yet the top reference site has a non-responsive design arguably "stuck in 1990s". Judging an old and mature project by whether its website design is updated to 2020s is shallow.
- Jetrel 5y ago
  To be fair; the real comparisons they're making are to things like Ruby, Rust, Python, etc. These are all languages that have done extraordinary jobs at evangelism and at setting up communities that are structured to have friendly, non-adversarial cultures. It's not an accident that these languages have become obscenely popular. The "design" in terms of how it looks is, as you say, irrelevant. The "design" in terms of what information is conveyed, is deeply flawed in the sense that it's excellent for anyone who's already using the compiler - and completely useless for someone swinging by wondering about getting into Pascal in 2021. I.e. "preaching to the choir", as they say. A fair amount of why websites started to also look different over time, is they structurally altered themselves to convey additional information. For example, a lot of programming language/compiler sites have images at the top now giving "strangers" a quick glimpse at the syntax. It's all about crafting your website so it's useful to complete strangers, rather than only useful to the existing in-crowd.
muldvarp 5y ago
freepascal.org is about the Free Pascal Compiler, not Pascal as a language. Both gcc.gnu.org and clang.llvm.org don't contain example C code and both look more dated than freepascal.org. The Embarcadero website on the other hand seems pretty modern with all the modern annoyances including slow page load time, popups and a blinking title text.
0des 5y ago
Please give it your best effort to manage your emotions. Your title makes you come off as ungrateful, presumptuous, and oblivious to the point the parent commenter was trying to share. While your comment had necessary helpful detail, the delivery negates all willingness to assimilate the data you are so painstakingly delivering. Do better! Be better! Let's start over again on a different foot.
clouddrover 5y ago
The utter superficiality of your comment is the perfect demonstration of the fashion driven nature of software development. You're not worried about the language. You're worried about the marketing and whether or not you feel cool. You might as we be asking if this is the right language to wear this season or if your bum looks big in this compiler.
- Normille 5y ago
  >The utter superficiality of your comment is the perfect demonstration of the fashion driven nature of software development. You're not worried about the language. You're worried about the marketing and whether or not you feel cool... You walk into a bookshop, undecided on what you want to read next. On every shelf are books in plain white covers. You pick one out at random and look at the front. There is no illustration at all to give you any hint as to what it's about. Just the plain white cover with the title of the book. You flip it over. On the back cover, instead of a summary of the plot, there is just an index of chapter titles. If that's not enough for you upon which to base your decision on whether or not to purchase, then you're an incredibly shallow and fashion-led reader [Feel free to create similar analogies. For example; a supermarket in which every tin, packet and bottle has a plain white label with 'Food' written on the front and nothing but an ingredients list on the back]

oefrha 5y ago

> I clicked on it and was taken to a page which looked like it was stuck in a 1990s timewarp. Opened it on my phone and, as expected, no concessions to mobile layout at all. Just that massive page of text rendered in microscopic size on my phone screen. Sure, maybe check https://cppreference.com/ https://cppreference.com/ on your phone too. C++ is a popular language and has modern updates all the time, as you can see on that very site, yet the top reference site has a non-responsive design arguably "stuck in 1990s". Judging an old and mature project by whether its website design is updated to 2020s is shallow.

Jetrel 5y ago
To be fair; the real comparisons they're making are to things like Ruby, Rust, Python, etc. These are all languages that have done extraordinary jobs at evangelism and at setting up communities that are structured to have friendly, non-adversarial cultures. It's not an accident that these languages have become obscenely popular. The "design" in terms of how it looks is, as you say, irrelevant. The "design" in terms of what information is conveyed, is deeply flawed in the sense that it's excellent for anyone who's already using the compiler - and completely useless for someone swinging by wondering about getting into Pascal in 2021. I.e. "preaching to the choir", as they say. A fair amount of why websites started to also look different over time, is they structurally altered themselves to convey additional information. For example, a lot of programming language/compiler sites have images at the top now giving "strangers" a quick glimpse at the syntax. It's all about crafting your website so it's useful to complete strangers, rather than only useful to the existing in-crowd.

muldvarp 5y ago

freepascal.org is about the Free Pascal Compiler, not Pascal as a language. Both gcc.gnu.org and clang.llvm.org don't contain example C code and both look more dated than freepascal.org. The Embarcadero website on the other hand seems pretty modern with all the modern annoyances including slow page load time, popups and a blinking title text.

0des 5y ago

Please give it your best effort to manage your emotions. Your title makes you come off as ungrateful, presumptuous, and oblivious to the point the parent commenter was trying to share. While your comment had necessary helpful detail, the delivery negates all willingness to assimilate the data you are so painstakingly delivering. Do better! Be better! Let's start over again on a different foot.

clouddrover 5y ago

The utter superficiality of your comment is the perfect demonstration of the fashion driven nature of software development. You're not worried about the language. You're worried about the marketing and whether or not you feel cool. You might as we be asking if this is the right language to wear this season or if your bum looks big in this compiler.

Normille 5y ago
>The utter superficiality of your comment is the perfect demonstration of the fashion driven nature of software development. You're not worried about the language. You're worried about the marketing and whether or not you feel cool... You walk into a bookshop, undecided on what you want to read next. On every shelf are books in plain white covers. You pick one out at random and look at the front. There is no illustration at all to give you any hint as to what it's about. Just the plain white cover with the title of the book. You flip it over. On the back cover, instead of a summary of the plot, there is just an index of chapter titles. If that's not enough for you upon which to base your decision on whether or not to purchase, then you're an incredibly shallow and fashion-led reader [Feel free to create similar analogies. For example; a supermarket in which every tin, packet and bottle has a plain white label with 'Food' written on the front and nothing but an ingredients list on the back]