4 ms·

Sounds like they were caught red handed, mens rea and all. Any chance this ends up with serious repercussions like prison time?

Ansil849 5y ago
> any chance this ends up with serious repercussions like prison time When has any staff member of a FAANG company faced prison time for a similar crime? Not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious though my instinct is to say 'never'.
- aemreunal 5y ago
  The only one I can think of was Anthony Levandowski for stealing Waymo's trade secrets but he was pardoned a few months later.
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    That's not really a similar crime; that's a crime against another corporation.
    - sli 5y ago
      Even still, the guy got a pardon after 33 federal charges and pleading guilty to one of them. The average person would never get even a hint of a chance at that (or, frankly, such a tiny sentence -- 18 months, 6 served before pardon).
      - nicoffeine 5y ago
        Rich white dudes have a lot of empathy for other rich white dudes.
  - inerte 5y ago
    Not similar, but https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executive-convicted-receiving-bribes-and-kickbacks-companies-contracting https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executiv... I am not really sure if he was arrested yet, or ever.
- paxys 5y ago
  The only time this happens is when the employee was harming the company in any way (insider trading, selling IP etc). It's pretty obvious who the law favors in these situations.
- dekhn 5y ago
  I was going to say that Italy convincted David Drummond in absentia but it turns out the sentence was suspended so he wouldn't actually have to go to jail.
- syshum 5y ago
  Executives only go to jail if 1. They do something to harm the government (i.e Tax evasion) 2. They do something to harm a Rich person 3. They do something to harm another multinational corporation If they just harm a few citizens... the government literally does not care
  - BingoAhoy 5y ago
    Laws written by the powerful to serve the powerful. That's American plutocratic Justice for yah. Designed intentionally, just like this Google system of contracted companies.
bko 5y ago
> Civil law vs. criminal law: Punishment > Another important distinction between civil and criminal law is the type of penalty paid for being found guilty. In a criminal case, if the individual charged with a crime loses the case, they’re likely facing incarceration or some type of probation. For civil cases, the resolution to a case doesn’t result in the “losing” party going to jail. Often the judgement results in a financial penalty or an order to change behavior. https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/civil-law-versus-criminal-law/ https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/civil...
- willcipriano 5y ago
  > Section 2 makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation in any form. For a representation to be false, the representation being made must be wrong or misleading, and the person making it must know that it is, or might be, wrong or misleading.[0] I think it is reasonable to presume that by paying it's contractors, Google and by virtue it's executive team was representing to said contractor that they were being paid according to the labor laws. Google executives knew that this was not the case, and withheld that information, likely in order to increase their own personal bonuses. That would seem to me to be theft by deception, illegal in every nation on earth as far as I can tell. That's not even to mention the shareholders, who were defrauded as the company financials do not accurately reflect their labor liabilities. This in turn may have increased the value of Google stock, that then the people committing fraud around wages receive as a considerable portion of their compensation. If knowingly lying for personal gain and costing potentially tens of thousands of people life changing amounts of money isn't fraud, what is? [0]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-fraud-act-2006-repeal-of-the-deception-offences-in-the-theft-acts-1968-1996 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-fraud-act-200...
  - dodobirdlord 5y ago
    Well, everything is securities fraud, so why not? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everything-everywhere-is-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everyt... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-22/everything-still-might-be-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-22/everyt...
scohesc 5y ago
The feds shouldn't do anything until bonuses are handed out to the board of directors then snag them all away. Options, stocks, hard cash, a new car? Yoink!
nullc 5y ago
Years back Google and Apple conspired to illegally fix wages and were caught no less red handed, including executives emailing to keep the program out of email because it's illegal. The conspiracy even used threats of ruining other competitors with patent claims to force them to participate. The fines and judgement they paid were but a tiny fraction of the cumulative wages they stole. The lesson was that wage theft is profitable. Until we start imposing a corporate death penalty in situations like this there will be no reason for companies to not simply do the economic calculation and decide the defrauding their employees is the right thing to do for their bottom line, one that can be optimized by lowering the risk of prosecution by better obscuring the crime or building up a legal team that can tie up the largest of nation states in court for decades.

Ansil849 5y ago

> any chance this ends up with serious repercussions like prison time When has any staff member of a FAANG company faced prison time for a similar crime? Not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious though my instinct is to say 'never'.

aemreunal 5y ago
The only one I can think of was Anthony Levandowski for stealing Waymo's trade secrets but he was pardoned a few months later.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  That's not really a similar crime; that's a crime against another corporation.
  - sli 5y ago
    Even still, the guy got a pardon after 33 federal charges and pleading guilty to one of them. The average person would never get even a hint of a chance at that (or, frankly, such a tiny sentence -- 18 months, 6 served before pardon).
    - nicoffeine 5y ago
      Rich white dudes have a lot of empathy for other rich white dudes.
- inerte 5y ago
  Not similar, but https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executive-convicted-receiving-bribes-and-kickbacks-companies-contracting https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executiv... I am not really sure if he was arrested yet, or ever.
paxys 5y ago
The only time this happens is when the employee was harming the company in any way (insider trading, selling IP etc). It's pretty obvious who the law favors in these situations.
dekhn 5y ago
I was going to say that Italy convincted David Drummond in absentia but it turns out the sentence was suspended so he wouldn't actually have to go to jail.
syshum 5y ago
Executives only go to jail if 1. They do something to harm the government (i.e Tax evasion) 2. They do something to harm a Rich person 3. They do something to harm another multinational corporation If they just harm a few citizens... the government literally does not care
- BingoAhoy 5y ago
  Laws written by the powerful to serve the powerful. That's American plutocratic Justice for yah. Designed intentionally, just like this Google system of contracted companies.

bko 5y ago

> Civil law vs. criminal law: Punishment > Another important distinction between civil and criminal law is the type of penalty paid for being found guilty. In a criminal case, if the individual charged with a crime loses the case, they’re likely facing incarceration or some type of probation. For civil cases, the resolution to a case doesn’t result in the “losing” party going to jail. Often the judgement results in a financial penalty or an order to change behavior. https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/civil-law-versus-criminal-law/ https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/civil...

willcipriano 5y ago
> Section 2 makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation in any form. For a representation to be false, the representation being made must be wrong or misleading, and the person making it must know that it is, or might be, wrong or misleading.[0] I think it is reasonable to presume that by paying it's contractors, Google and by virtue it's executive team was representing to said contractor that they were being paid according to the labor laws. Google executives knew that this was not the case, and withheld that information, likely in order to increase their own personal bonuses. That would seem to me to be theft by deception, illegal in every nation on earth as far as I can tell. That's not even to mention the shareholders, who were defrauded as the company financials do not accurately reflect their labor liabilities. This in turn may have increased the value of Google stock, that then the people committing fraud around wages receive as a considerable portion of their compensation. If knowingly lying for personal gain and costing potentially tens of thousands of people life changing amounts of money isn't fraud, what is? [0]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-fraud-act-2006-repeal-of-the-deception-offences-in-the-theft-acts-1968-1996 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-fraud-act-200...
- dodobirdlord 5y ago
  Well, everything is securities fraud, so why not? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everything-everywhere-is-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everyt... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-22/everything-still-might-be-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-22/everyt...

scohesc 5y ago

The feds shouldn't do anything until bonuses are handed out to the board of directors then snag them all away. Options, stocks, hard cash, a new car? Yoink!

nullc 5y ago

Years back Google and Apple conspired to illegally fix wages and were caught no less red handed, including executives emailing to keep the program out of email because it's illegal. The conspiracy even used threats of ruining other competitors with patent claims to force them to participate. The fines and judgement they paid were but a tiny fraction of the cumulative wages they stole. The lesson was that wage theft is profitable. Until we start imposing a corporate death penalty in situations like this there will be no reason for companies to not simply do the economic calculation and decide the defrauding their employees is the right thing to do for their bottom line, one that can be optimized by lowering the risk of prosecution by better obscuring the crime or building up a legal team that can tie up the largest of nation states in court for decades.